2014/2015 Season Thread

[Eupraxia]

 

I dont think Khedira is the one they should go for. There was a stat thing i was looking at the other day and he doesnt actually do the things Arsenal need from a DM. They need someone to figure out how to get Flamini to play well, regularly and they would be fine, short of that they should be trying to get that Brazlian guy who plays for Wolfsburg. 

 

Statistics are absolutely wonderful, and I love reading them, especially when represented graphically. I'd quite like to see the "stat thing" you refer to, if you reckon you could dig it up?

 

In my opinion, without corroborating statistics, Khedira is precisely the sort of player Arsenal require in a pivot midfielder. He's highly intelligent, positions himself brilliantly, and he's physically strong. He's not an all-out tenacious ball winner, like some modern defensive midfielders, but I think it's important to recognise that Arsenal do not need an aggressive ball winner per se - they need a dynamic and disciplined midfield pivot who links the centre-backs to the central offensive midfielders. Essentially, they need someone like Arteta but with a physical presence and the ability to stop counter-attacks and stop opponents finding that crucial space between the lines. Khedira does this marvellously, in my opinion. He keeps the game remarkably simple, and I personally feel that's precisly what Arsenal need, given their strategic approach to games and the other players they have.

 

Luis Gustavo could be a candidate, but he's more of a "third centre-back" sort of defensive midfielder, who always sits incredibly deep and focuses entirely on winning the ball and roughing up opponents. I'm not convinced Arsenal need that.

 

Khedira is a World Cup winner and a fine footballer. If it is wages that are the stumbling block, I think Arsenal should perhaps just bite the bullet and adhere to his demands. It could be the difference between yet another barren season and some worthwhile silverware. But then again, all clubs have a wage structure, and it's admirable to stick with it and work within it.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Eupraxia

[The Milner]

 

 

 

Statistics are absolutely wonderful, and I love reading them, especially when represented graphically. I'd quite like to see the "stat thing" you refer to, if you reckon you could dig it up?

 

In my opinion, without corroborating statistics, Khedira is precisely the sort of player Arsenal require in a pivot midfielder. He's highly intelligent, positions himself brilliantly, and he's physically strong. He's not an all-out tenacious ball winner, like some modern defensive midfielders, but I think it's important to recognise that Arsenal do not need an aggressive ball winner per se - they need a dynamic and disciplined midfield pivot who links the centre-backs to the central offensive midfielders. Essentially, they need someone like Arteta but with a physical presence and the ability to stop counter-attacks and stop opponents finding that crucial space between the lines. Khedira does this marvellously, in my opinion. He keeps the game remarkably simple, and I personally feel that's precisly what Arsenal need, given their strategic approach to games and the other players they have.

 

Luis Gustavo could be a candidate, but he's more of a "third centre-back" sort of defensive midfielder, who always sits incredibly deep and focuses entirely on winning the ball and roughing up opponents. I'm not convinced Arsenal need that.

 

Khedira is a World Cup winner and a fine footballer. If it is wages that are the stumbling block, I think Arsenal should perhaps just bite the bullet and adhere to his demands. It could be the difference between yet another barren season and some worthwhile silverware. But then again, all clubs have a wage structure, and it's admirable to stick with it and work within it.

 

 

Amazingly i found it quite quickly!

 

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/07/is-sami-khedira-arsenals-answer-at-defensive-mid/

[Adam Easy Wishes]

Amazingly i found it quite quickly!

 

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/07/is-sami-khedira-arsenals-answer-at-defensive-mid/

 

Hmm, it's a good graphical representation of things, but realistically he doesn't play that role for Madrid, does he? It's Alonso that sits/has sat in there, largely.

 

I'd be interested to see the same graphic of his performances for the German national side.

[The Milner]

Hmm, it's a good graphical representation of things, but realistically he doesn't play that role for Madrid, does he? It's Alonso that sits/has sat in there, largely.

 

I'd be interested to see the same graphic of his performances for the German national side.

 

Quite possibly, but then why are Arsenal wanting to buy him as a DM, if he doesnt really play as a DM? 

There is a chart at the bottom for the boy Kramer, who i believe is the starting Germany DM isnt he? 

They have also just bought Chambers, who started life as a DM and has been converted into a defender in the last couple of years. 

 

It just seems like a lot of money for a guy who may not really do the job they need. They have battling mids like Ramsey already there, what they really need is a good, disciplined sitting DM, who isnt Arteta. 

[Captain America]

Quite possibly, but then why are Arsenal wanting to buy him as a DM, if he doesnt really play as a DM? 

There is a chart at the bottom for the boy Kramer, who i believe is the starting Germany DM isnt he? 

They have also just bought Chambers, who started life as a DM and has been converted into a defender in the last couple of years. 

 

It just seems like a lot of money for a guy who may not really do the job they need. They have battling mids like Ramsey already there, what they really need is a good, disciplined sitting DM, who isnt Arteta. 

 

Khedira is the starting DM, Kramer played in the final when Khedira got injured in the warm up.  The only other game he played in was as an extra time sub.

[The Milner]

Khedira is the starting DM, Kramer played in the final when Khedira got injured in the warm up.  The only other game he played in was as an extra time sub.

 

Fair enough, i really dont know enough about the German national team and clearly i could be very wrong with what im saying, stats can be made to back up almost any point if presented in the right way. This came up on an Arsenal thread with almost all the Arsenal fans saying they would rather not have him to play the DM role, and obviously that chart came into it. 

[Captain America]

Some Arsenal fans are backing off the idea as it seems a bit off now with his wage demands, you know the way fans are.  Greatest player in the world when he's going to sign, garbage they dont need when he doesn't.

 

As you say stats can be made to fit almost any case.  The Real Madrid ones really dont mean much as someone already said Alonso does the real dirty work there but for Germany Khedira does more of that.

 

He'd really fit in at Arsenal in my opinion, able to play the DM role but extremely good on the ball and can pass as well as any midfielder.  Perfect for the football Arsenal were playing last season.  Arteta/Flamini just isn't a viable option for this season if Arsenal wan't to challenge.  With them it's just another top four finish. IMO.

[ca_gere]

 

 

 

Statistics are absolutely wonderful, and I love reading them, especially when represented graphically. I'd quite like to see the "stat thing" you refer to, if you reckon you could dig it up?

 

In my opinion, without corroborating statistics, Khedira is precisely the sort of player Arsenal require in a pivot midfielder. He's highly intelligent, positions himself brilliantly, and he's physically strong. He's not an all-out tenacious ball winner, like some modern defensive midfielders, but I think it's important to recognise that Arsenal do not need an aggressive ball winner per se - they need a dynamic and disciplined midfield pivot who links the centre-backs to the central offensive midfielders. Essentially, they need someone like Arteta but with a physical presence and the ability to stop counter-attacks and stop opponents finding that crucial space between the lines. Khedira does this marvellously, in my opinion. He keeps the game remarkably simple, and I personally feel that's precisly what Arsenal need, given their strategic approach to games and the other players they have.

 

Luis Gustavo could be a candidate, but he's more of a "third centre-back" sort of defensive midfielder, who always sits incredibly deep and focuses entirely on winning the ball and roughing up opponents. I'm not convinced Arsenal need that.

 

Khedira is a World Cup winner and a fine footballer. If it is wages that are the stumbling block, I think Arsenal should perhaps just bite the bullet and adhere to his demands. It could be the difference between yet another barren season and some worthwhile silverware. But then again, all clubs have a wage structure, and it's admirable to stick with it and work within it.

 

 

Agreed, Khedira would be a great acquisition. Experience is a lot more of a factor than a lot of people tend to think. He's played with the absolute best in all the top competitions, been in the dressing rooms of the great teams, been left out as well as been relied upon in important games. There's a lot more to being a succesfull footballer than the 90 minutes.

 

Wasn't Khedira a big factor in Mourinho 'losing the dressing room'? I remember there was reports of the players siding with Sami when Mourinho heavily criticized him after a loss. I read something else during the world cup saying how liked he is amongst fellow players. That's hugely important.

 

Added to that is the fact that a LOT of teams that have a same-country spine to them seem to perform well. Ozil, big Mertz, Khedira, Podolski could be the new Henry, Vieira, Pires (or countless other examples which don't come to mind right now).

Edited August 5, 2014 by ca_gere

[Lemonade]

BT Sport are showing the Dons game on Thursday.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152580544912482&id=263523567481

[Soda Jerk]

Do United's centre-backs really have the qualities required to pull it off? I'm asking as I've no real idea what "type" of CBs Jones, Smalling, etc. are. Jones strikes as the kind of guy who'd be an absolute disaster in such a system.

 

I think Smalling and Evans do, though they could still get someone better than Evans. His best quality is how composed he is on the ball. He's good at bringing the ball forward, and his passing is very good. He's just not the best at that whole "defending" thing. Pretty soft in the air and when physically imposed, though he often compensates it with good positioning. I think United could improve on him, as I think Smalling and Jones have more about them, and a bigger ceiling in terms of potential. Evans is okay, and a good squad player, but if Van Gaal is going to improve the defence, I think it will be Evans who is marginalised.

 

Smalling is a huge aerial presence, never seems to come off 2nd best when the ball is in the air, and he doesn't often get turned by a nippy forward. For a 6ft6er, he's remarkably quick. Good composure and seems comfortable at coming out of the backline and attacking the ball.

 

Jones is a lunatic. A raging bull. If he sees a loose ball, he sees red, and charges, goring either an opponent, or himself. Like Smalling, he is very quick for a man of his build, and has a reasonable range of passing, but he has the composure of a child who is jacked up on Smarties and fizzy pop. He has Vidic-like qualities, in the way he'll throw himself at anything and stopping a shot or a dangerous pass across the face of goal, but he just doesn't seem to have a clue how to use those qualities yet. As of now, I think he'd make a better defensive midfield destroyer than a centre back.

 

It's a huge adjustment for the team to operate with a back 3, after years of playing 4-4-2. They've done well so far.

 

 

Van Gaal will get an extra 10-15% out of every single player, and that will see Manchester United into the top four again, in my opinion. They'll be a very tough team to defeat (unlike last season), but I don't think they will be challenging for the title yet. Not with Jones, Smalling, and Evans as the primary centre-backs. Joda Serk ostensibly rates each of these players, but they all have glaring weaknesses in their game, even in their preferred and most suited positions.

 

Smalling's weaknesses. Name them. And the list cannot include "playing at right back", because that's a given.

 

 

 

Now that Pat Evra has gone, I need another player to be irrationally defensive about. It's Chris Smalling. When given time in his position, I think he will be the best English centre back. Big talk.

[Murrr]

It's Chris Smalling. When given time in his position, I think he will be the best English centre back. Big talk.

 

WRONG AGAIN.

 

 

Real talk though: there's actually been murmurs of Pardiola attempting a 5-3-2 system with us this year, as the strikers we've bought aren't suited to playing up-top on their own. It makes literally no sense for us. We have three natural wing-backs in the squad (Haidara, Santon and Janmaat), but can you imagine the lolocaust that a back-three including Williamson AND Taylor would be?! I'd put Coloccini on suicide watch, having the play with those two dipshits.

 

I hope it's just a rumour, but he's done weirder things, like playing Shola on the wing and giving PAUL DUMMETT minutes in the Premier League. 

[Eupraxia]

Smalling's weaknesses. Name them. And the list cannot include "playing at right back", because that's a given.

 

 

Now that Pat Evra has gone, I need another player to be irrationally defensive about. It's Chris Smalling. When given time in his position, I think he will be the best English centre back. Big talk.

 

I'm having a lazy morning at work, so fuck it, I'll have a go at this.

 

Chris Smalling has numerous weaknesses, both as a general footballer and a centre-back. Firstly, though, I'll identify his obvious strengths. He's very competitive and dominant in the air, but this is the absolute minimum we should expect from the man - he's a 6'4" centre-back! He's pretty athletic and can accelerate more rapidly than the majority of centre-backs, but he's hardly explosive when it comes to speed - I'd argue that he's more stridey than he is pacey. He's not a terrible tackler, but statistics seem to suggest he's more of a blocker, which is actually surprising, given that full-backs are often statistically higher on the tackle count than centre-backs, as centre-backs tend to rack up blocks rather than tackles, and Smalling has probably played the majority of his United games at right-back. He's a substantial unit, so it seems natural to me that he'll be more of a blocker than a tackler, as he seems to release controlled and disciplined aggression rather than being forceful in every challenge and tackle: he rarely dives in to tackles, and I think that's a good thing.

 

Weaknesses? Due to his height, his centre of gravity is quite high, so his balance isn't great. This is a common problem amongst centre-backs, but it seems especially obvious with Smalling - he looks very ungainly and his lack of balance definitely contributes to his limited technique and first touch. Yes, he is a centre-back, but I think we can all recognise that to be a top player in any position, you need technique and the ability to regularly control a ball regardless of the height and pace at which it arrives to you. To me, he looks very clumsy and awkward when he's not heading the ball or blocking a shot.

 

I will also suggest Smalling's distribution needs a lot of work, especially if he is to fit into Van Gaal's system of a back-three, as Van Gaal likes all three centre-backs showing for the ball when the ball is in the defensive and midfield thirds. I would couple his poor passing statistics with a general lack of composure and decision making skills. That said, some of his passing has been higher up the pitch and in tighter positions due to his frequent deployment at right-back, so that stat is arguably skewed. I think it still indicates a weakness in his game, though.

 

Smalling also suffers from blips in concentration, which are often disguised due to his athleticism and ability to recover his own positional follies. He can't rely on this week-in week-out for Manchester United, though. I'd argue that concentration is the primary ability a Manchester United defender or goalkeeper needs due to the scarcity with which the majority of opponents populate Manchester United's final third.

 

Plus, the guy parties hard during injuries and dresses as suicide bombers. What a drongo.

 

Of course, almost all of the weaknesses I reckon Smalling has can be improved upon or at least worked on, so he'll probably become great, but I was just initially making the point that the guy has weaknesses. And he really does. I'm not arguing that Smalling won't become a great centre-back, I'm just suggesting that he has a lot of work to do before he does.

 

I thought Rafael was going to become your new irrationally loved Manchester United defender.

 

Sorry for the essay.

[givemeasmile]

I'm having a lazy morning at work, so fuck it, I'll have a go at this.

 

Chris Smalling has numerous weaknesses, both as a general footballer and a centre-back. Firstly, though, I'll identify his obvious strengths. He's very competitive and dominant in the air, but this is the absolute minimum we should expect from the man - he's a 6'4" centre-back! He's pretty athletic and can accelerate more rapidly than the majority of centre-backs, but he's hardly explosive when it comes to speed - I'd argue that he's more stridey than he is pacey. He's not a terrible tackler, but statistics seem to suggest he's more of a blocker, which is actually surprising, given that full-backs are often statistically higher on the tackle count than centre-backs, as centre-backs tend to rack up blocks rather than tackles, and Smalling has probably played the majority of his United games at right-back. He's a substantial unit, so it seems natural to me that he'll be more of a blocker than a tackler, as he seems to release controlled and disciplined aggression rather than being forceful in every challenge and tackle: he rarely dives in to tackles, and I think that's a good thing.

 

Weaknesses? Due to his height, his centre of gravity is quite high, so his balance isn't great. This is a common problem amongst centre-backs, but it seems especially obvious with Smalling - he looks very ungainly and his lack of balance definitely contributes to his limited technique and first touch. Yes, he is a centre-back, but I think we can all recognise that to be a top player in any position, you need technique and the ability to regularly control a ball regardless of the height and pace at which it arrives to you. To me, he looks very clumsy and awkward when he's not heading the ball or blocking a shot.

 

I will also suggest Smalling's distribution needs a lot of work, especially if he is to fit into Van Gaal's system of a back-three, as Van Gaal likes all three centre-backs showing for the ball when the ball is in the defensive and midfield thirds. I would couple his poor passing statistics with a general lack of composure and decision making skills. That said, some of his passing has been higher up the pitch and in tighter positions due to his frequent deployment at right-back, so that stat is arguably skewed. I think it still indicates a weakness in his game, though.

 

Smalling also suffers from blips in concentration, which are often disguised due to his athleticism and ability to recover his own positional follies. He can't rely on this week-in week-out for Manchester United, though. I'd argue that concentration is the primary ability a Manchester United defender or goalkeeper needs due to the scarcity with which the majority of opponents populate Manchester United's final third.

 

Plus, the guy parties hard during injuries and dresses as suicide bombers. What a drongo.

 

Of course, almost all of the weaknesses I reckon Smalling has can be improved upon or at least worked on, so he'll probably become great, but I was just initially making the point that the guy has weaknesses. And he really does. I'm not arguing that Smalling won't become a great centre-back, I'm just suggesting that he has a lot of work to do before he does.

 

I thought Rafael was going to become your new irrationally loved Manchester United defender.

 

Sorry for the essay.

Woah, that's probably the most in depth analysis of Chris Smalling I've ever seen!

In my opinion, most of his statistics are flawed in that they wouldn't make for the same reading if he had been deployed at centre half for his entire career. Getting extremely inconsistent runs in the team also contribute to this. I definitely think he needs a lot of game time this year, and shouldn't be judged too heavily on his form up until this point. If United are going to play 3 at the back then I think Smalling, Jones and a top quality signing would be the answer (Hummels?), whilst keeping Evans/Keane in the frame for the purposes of rotation.

Looking at the wing back positions, apparently Ashley Young has shone in pre-season along with Valencia and Shaw. Rafael can play there too, so there are options available. The weakest area is arguably central midfield, but with Fletcher back, Hererra in the team and a signing looking quite likely (hopefully Vidal), I'm optimistic about the coming season given the quality of the front line. No other team in the league has a group of forwards that are collectively as good as Mata, Rooney and RVP; and I include Man City in that.

[Captain America]

Woah, that's probably the most in depth analysis of Chris Smalling I've ever seen!

In my opinion, most of his statistics are flawed in that they wouldn't make for the same reading if he had been deployed at centre half for his entire career. Getting extremely inconsistent runs in the team also contribute to this. I definitely think he needs a lot of game time this year, and shouldn't be judged too heavily on his form up until this point. If United are going to play 3 at the back then I think Smalling, Jones and a top quality signing would be the answer (Hummels?), whilst keeping Evans/Keane in the frame for the purposes of rotation.

Looking at the wing back positions, apparently Ashley Young has shone in pre-season along with Valencia and Shaw. Rafael can play there too, so there are options available. The weakest area is arguably central midfield, but with Fletcher back, Hererra in the team and a signing looking quite likely (hopefully Vidal), I'm optimistic about the coming season given the quality of the front line. No other team in the league has a group of forwards that are collectively as good as Mata, Rooney and RVP; and I include Man City in that.

 

Aguero, Yaya, Silva and one of Negredo/Dzeko/Jovetic is better.

 

You're a United fan but that front line is not as good as City's.  Especially as RVP had another injury plagued season last year. 

[givemeasmile]

Aguero, Yaya, Silva and one of Negredo/Dzeko/Jovetic is better.

 

You're a United fan but that front line is not as good as City's.  Especially as RVP had another injury plagued season last year.

We can agree to disagree, I'm just really excited about Rooney/Mata/RVP playing under a manager who will hopefully get the best out of all of them.

I also think that there's a difference between RVP being 'injured' and just being a dick because he didn't want to play for David Moyes.

[Captain America]

Being a dick?

 

He missed half the season (played 21 games in the EPL)!  Was he just refusing to play?  That seems like a silly point to make.

[Soda Jerk]

Stuff about Chrissy Smallz

 

 

Good post. I think alot of that criticism is fair, though as you say, you'd expect him to improve on just about all of it. I also don't think his weaknesses have really hampered his game whilst at centre back. His distribution has been pretty shoddy when out wide in tight spaces, but from the middle of the pitch, he looks to have a reasonable range of passing for a centre back. I struggle to think of even one poor game he's had from the middle, compared to the countless iffy RB performances. I think he will be very good, but I still maintain that he is already very close to that.

 

 

 

 

I think RVP was definitely injured, though he also didn't seem to like playing under Moyes. It was quite convenient he returned from injury the day that Giggs took charge of his first game. There's also a lot of reputable sources saying that Moyes disregarded RVP's own personal training plan, which he carried over from when he was at Arsenal, and made him participate in full contact training with the rest of the squad. Seemingly, he needed to be managed carefully. He played every game in his final season at Arsenal and his first season at United. Then Moyes came in with his drill-sergeant football-less training sessions and broke him. Van Gaal knows all about him so I think he will manage him alot better.

 

If fit, RVP is better than Aguero IMO, the latter also has fitness concerns of his own. I'd also take Rooney over either of Dzeko, Negredo and Jovetic. David Silva is better than Juan Mata, but there's not much in it. Juan Mata is a better goalscorer, but Silva's ball retention is the best in the world. City have a bit more depth as Dzeko, Negredo and Jovetic are better than Welbeck and Hernandez, though not by miles. United's frontline matches anyones, but it's everything between De Gea and the strikers than needs reviewing.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Soda van Jerk

[Paranoid Android]

Silva's ball retention is the best in the world. 

 

nah

 

 

why's the celtic match not on tv?

[Camie]

I'm assuming because they are at home. They want to try and get as much tickets sold as possible. Aberdeen's home leg wasn't shown against Groningen, and they only announced that the game tomorrow would be on BTSport after they sold all tickets.

 

Just a guess though.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Camie

[Delboy1969]

Football league starts Saturday and cannot wait for Cambridge's home opener against Plymouth.  After nine years in the hellhole of the conference I still can hardly believe we're back in the football league.  Shame we lost arguably our best player - Luke Berry - to that football giant Barnsley but impressed with the summer signings.  Thankfully we have kept the majority of last season's squad who did so well so a season of mid table consolidation is on the cards I think.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

[Soda Jerk]

nah

 

David Silva is practically un-tackle-able. His ball control is magnetic. Name a more untackleable player.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Soda van Jerk

[Adam Easy Wishes]

David Silva is practically un-tackle-able. His ball control is magnetic. Name a more untackleable player.

 

[Murrr]

Bit of chat on Twitter about Falcao going to Liverpool? I swear to God, that had better be nonsense...

[Paranoid Android]

David Silva is practically un-tackle-able. His ball control is magnetic. Name a more untackleable player.

 

He's good in that respect but not clearly ahead of the rest. Boring answer, but the best is probably Messi who only loses the ball when trying to beat 5 players at a time.