2011/2012 Season Thread

[The Milner]

I don't think they should be lying down to the Old Firm but the OF should be beating teams like that surely? Actually the state of the game in Scotland is possibly much worse than I realize....

Why? Because of the history attached to both Rangers and Celtic? Both of those teams will be competing financially with the old firm, and probably playing in more competitive leagues. 5 years ago i would have agreed with you, now no chance, both the old firm are filled with shit players, with one or two shining lights, and to be fair neither Mccoist or Lennon have the tactical experience to outwit another manager.

Again 5 years ago could you imagine either club hiring rookie managers who are getting their first chance on the management ladder?

[Chris]

Again 5 years ago could you imagine either club hiring rookie managers who are getting their first chance on the management ladder?

John Barnes.

[The Milner]

Absolutely. Clubs rely on maximising the money from what few fans still turn up rather than getting the same amount from more fans in the ground. Drop the ticket prices and more people will go to games.

Will they tho? I remember reading something a while ago that was bascially saying clubs are stuck, no one wants to go see Scottish football, not when the EPL and Championship games are on TV so often, so clubs had the choice of keeping high ticket prices or taking a huge risk lowering them and ending up with pretty much the same number of fans anyway. I cant see people flocking to Todders in their thousands because tickets are only a tenner.

[Eupraxia]

I think clubs who attract 60 odd thousand supporters to home games should be getting into the group stages of European competition. I mean it's not like they are losing to giants of the European football but clubs from countries with a lesser standard of football than in Scotland. So I stand by using the word embarrassing.

Neither Celtic or Rangers attract "60-odd thousand". Also, I don't think attendance figures should reflect anything in footballing terms; if it did, then clubs like Newcastle United would regularly tear shit up in Europe. Both Rangers and Celtic are traditionally Irish clubs (so they tell us) and their association with religion is what attracts such numbers - nothing to do with football. And do you really think Slovenian and Swiss football is of a lesser standard than Scotland? What are you basing that on, out of interest? You've admitted you don't follow Scottish football, so I assume you follow Slovenian and Swiss football closely in order to make that judgement? From what I saw of the four games involving Celtic and Rangers in the last round, they were both beaten by teams with a superior set of players, both technically and physically, and both Maribor and Sion were deployed with far greater tactical effect. I think that's the only thing these ties should be based on - not anyone's perception of their respective leagues and standard of football in that nation. There is little embarrassment in being defeated by better teams, and I felt Rangers and Celtic were both beaten by better teams.

[The Milner]

John Barnes.

Yes but he was taken in with king Kenny as his support, i see what your saying but that was slightly different.

[Eupraxia]

Will they tho? I remember reading something a while ago that was bascially saying clubs are stuck, no one wants to go see Scottish football, not when the EPL and Championship games are on TV so often, so clubs had the choice of keeping high ticket prices or taking a huge risk lowering them and ending up with pretty much the same number of fans anyway. I cant see people flocking to Todders in their thousands because tickets are only a tenner.

I see where you're coming from, but on a very personal level, if I could watch Aberdeen every week (not just at Pittodrie) for a tenner, I would go back to my old habit of going to every single game.

I have been priced out of supporting Aberdeen each week.

[Chris]

Will they tho? I remember reading something a while ago that was bascially saying clubs are stuck, no one wants to go see Scottish football, not when the EPL and Championship games are on TV so often, so clubs had the choice of keeping high ticket prices or taking a huge risk lowering them and ending up with pretty much the same number of fans anyway. I cant see people flocking to Todders in their thousands because tickets are only a tenner.

It has to be worth a shot though. Combine it with an improved kids offer. 10 tickets and under 14s are free. Fill the fucking stands with fans that will come back for the next ten or thirty years.

The SRU do a kids go free deal, ok they don't have the same running costs and wage bills but the SPL clubs have to do something or the game really is dying on it's feet.

[Woodsinho]

If it was a tenner to get to Aberdeen games I'd probably go along on a fairly regular basis but I can't justify paying more than twice that amount to watch a team I don't really support.

[Alan Cynic]

A tenner would tempt me back, too.

[The Milner]

They definitely have to do something, what that something is i dont think anyone really has a definitive answer. Reducing ticket prices i think would only really work if there is a product worth watching. What i will say is finally teams up here are beginning to play some better football the likes of St Mirren and Killie should be commended for trying at least. The other problem in the long run is obviously going to be the lack of success any of the clubs outwith the old firm can achieve, kids like teams that win for the best part.

[Chris]

The other problem in the long run is obviously going to be the lack of success any of the clubs outwith the old firm can achieve, kids like teams that win for the best part.

Hmm, a bit of that maybe. Mostly kids like whatever their friends and family like though. They like being in a gang so will follow the same team as their Dad and their mates. Get them going to Pittodrie in the first place and they'll keep coming back even though we're shit.

[Eupraxia]

I live literally right next to Easter Road stadium, and Aberdeen are due to visit in September. I would absolutely love to attend this football match and get behind the team I used to be able to support. However, I just can't justify paying the 24 or so to go in for ninety minutes of very very poor football. If it was somewhere between ten and twelve pounds, I wouldn't even hesitate - I would have bought my ticket already. And I would have been at Tynecastle the other week and, probably, I'd head up to Aberdeen for the vast majority of home games. I personally value the average SPL match at around a tenner. Twenty-odd quid is just unreal for an SPL game.

I wish I lived in Germany and supported a Bundesliga club. Germany knows how to market it's football and focus the attention upon the people without whom none of these clubs are very likely to exist at the level they are at: the supporters.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

I think clubs who attract 60 odd thousand supporters to home games should be getting into the group stages of European competition. I mean it's not like they are losing to giants of the European football but clubs from countries with a lesser standard of football than in Scotland. So I stand by using the word embarrassing.

This is a myth.

Celtic only sell out home games against Rangers and occasionally in Europe - also bear in mind that season ticket sales skew actual attendance figures (because season ticket holders are always deemed to be there even if they are not). Also, 'best fans in the world' - LOL.

See here (indicative average attendances including ST holders): SPL 2010/2011 Home Average Attendance

[Paranoid Android]

I've had the ticket price conversation a few times over the past couple of weeks. It seems mad to me that clubs aren't willing to lower prices in order to attract higher attendances. It just has to be worth a try there are so many possible benefits. Of course the quality of football on offer is important too but Aberdeen have often played to a higher level when in front of a packed stadium with a great atmosphere so if lower prices attract people in it's not crazy to say that the team would react to them and play in a way which would keep the fans there.

As always Aberdeen prices look absolutely mental when you compare against some prices from the rest of Europe. Personally I have in the past paid 18/ 19 euros to see some Barcelona league matches and I once paid 13 euros to see AC Milan in serie a. Sure the prices would have been higher if the teams weren't playing against small teams from their leagues but it shows an understanding of price reflecting demand and product on offer which is jsut completely absent at Aberdeen and other SPL clubs. I'm fairly sure you could see top teams in most European leagues for less than a typical SPL match. We've all heard alot about the Bundesliga and their packed stadiums and low ticket prices. Paying 23 for the dons vs caley looks criminal in comparison really.

[The Milner]

id just like to point out i wasnt suggesting that the ticket prices up here are fair or right, they are a complete joke and a very big part of why i wont go to every dons game.

[Shaki]

The club's biggest concern when fixing ticket prices is making the most money. Theyll surely have done studies to find an optimum price. Although some people on the internet say theyd attend more regularly if tickets were reduced it is unlikely that enough more people would turn up for the club to make more money.

Lets say 5,000 non-season ticket customers turn up for your average game at Pittodrie. 70% of these are adults (22), 30% are concessions (11) making the average ticket price 18.70. The income for one game would be 93,500.

To make the same money at a suggested ticket price of 10 adults and 5 concessions, with the same ratio of adults to concessions making an average ticket price of 8.50, you would need to sell 11,000 non-season tickets.

The above figures are rough guesses and there are obviously other variables I havent considered (possible reduction on season ticket prices, increased Bovril sales) but I dont think that 6,000 extra fans are going to turn up every week to watch the Dons because of seriously reduced ticket prices.

[Moose]

The club's biggest concern when fixing ticket prices is making the most money. Theyll surely have done studies to find an optimum price. Although some people on the internet say theyd attend more regularly if tickets were reduced it is unlikely that enough more people would turn up for the club to make more money.

Lets say 5,000 non-season ticket customers turn up for your average game at Pittodrie. 70% of these are adults (22), 30% are concessions (11) making the average ticket price 18.70. The income for one game would be 93,500.

To make the same money at a suggested ticket price of 10 adults and 5 concessions, with the same ratio of adults to concessions making an average ticket price of 8.50, you would need to sell 11,000 non-season tickets.

The above figures are rough guesses and there are obviously other variables I havent considered (possible reduction on season ticket prices, increased Bovril sales) but I dont think that 6,000 extra fans are going to turn up every week to watch the Dons because of seriously reduced ticket prices.

And I'm the economist in the family!

[Lethal10]

The club's biggest concern when fixing ticket prices is making the most money. Theyll surely have done studies to find an optimum price. Although some people on the internet say theyd attend more regularly if tickets were reduced it is unlikely that enough more people would turn up for the club to make more money.

Lets say 5,000 non-season ticket customers turn up for your average game at Pittodrie. 70% of these are adults (22), 30% are concessions (11) making the average ticket price 18.70. The income for one game would be 93,500.

To make the same money at a suggested ticket price of 10 adults and 5 concessions, with the same ratio of adults to concessions making an average ticket price of 8.50, you would need to sell 11,000 non-season tickets.

The above figures are rough guesses and there are obviously other variables I havent considered (possible reduction on season ticket prices, increased Bovril sales) but I dont think that 6,000 extra fans are going to turn up every week to watch the Dons because of seriously reduced ticket prices.

Quite a few clubs have tried out systems of getting more people through the gate and I don't remember any working or having lasting effect.

All these internet surveys usually read great right up to the point where someone has to dip their hand in their pocket. The amount of people who would buy this, go to that, be up for that and come the point they have to pay all goes quiet.

Lets just say somebody goes to 15 home games at Aberdeen this season after they manage to reduce the ticket price by 10. Over the year the supporter will be saving 150 or 12.50 averaged per month.

Although it's a saving it's not really a massive amount of money that is going to make much difference to a lot of people. A few yes, but if you really wanted to go on a regular basis an extra 12.50 a month is not going to be a breaker for most.

[Shaki]

John Boyle tried significantly reduced ticket prices at Motherwell and lost a whole load of money. Sorry for the Daily Mail link but it's all I could find:

Celtic fans seethe as Motherwell stop price cuts | Mail Online

When I worked at AFC they tried quite a few discount schemes to dip their toes in the discount ticket waters. One that I remember was when season ticket holders could take a friend for free to a game against St. Johnstone. Although there was a higher attendance than there normally would be there wasn't a significant amount more that would have merited even a small slash in prices.

[Eupraxia]

The club's biggest concern when fixing ticket prices is making the most money. Theyll surely have done studies to find an optimum price. Although some people on the internet say theyd attend more regularly if tickets were reduced it is unlikely that enough more people would turn up for the club to make more money.

Lets say 5,000 non-season ticket customers turn up for your average game at Pittodrie. 70% of these are adults (22), 30% are concessions (11) making the average ticket price 18.70. The income for one game would be 93,500.

To make the same money at a suggested ticket price of 10 adults and 5 concessions, with the same ratio of adults to concessions making an average ticket price of 8.50, you would need to sell 11,000 non-season tickets.

The above figures are rough guesses and there are obviously other variables I havent considered (possible reduction on season ticket prices, increased Bovril sales) but I dont think that 6,000 extra fans are going to turn up every week to watch the Dons because of seriously reduced ticket prices.

Good points, and it's really useful for someone to break it all down like this.

However, how you open up your post is the part of the problem, in my estimation, in that clubs are totally tunnel-visioned when it comes to this issue. They are looking at the now, and the figures that are available in black and white.

Reducing the prices substantially and even increasing the average attendance over a projected period of time by about 15% would potentially reap far more other benefits, such as:

• A healthier, more enjoyable and more spirited atmosphere.
  
• Increased morale amongst supporters, and not least the players as they will be playing to larger audiences who generally generate more noise and atmosphere.
  
• Increased revenue from refreshments (as you've alluded to).
  
• Increased custom at the in-ground betting stalls (therefore the clubs could charge the bookies more to rent the stall).
  
• Clubs would be in a better position to charge more for advertising, as they can argue that there will be more people attending and thus more exposure to the advertisements.
  
• It'd probably positively affect a club's ability to sign a slightly higher calibre of player, as they could use a higher average attendance to attract them.
  
• The future of the club could be healthier, as people will find bringing their offsprings to be more affordable, therefore influencing their decision to support the club and attend games in the future. Building a future fanbase is so crucial.
  

All of these projected benefits are obviously not guaranteed, and it would depend massively on a club's ability to promote and market itself, but it's the way I see it. All of the above, I reckon, would assist in increasing the coffers over a period of time.

Sure, it's perhaps a longer term approach, but I do feel it's an area that clubs really ought to be looking at. Supporters are on the outside looking in, and clubs are on the inside looking in. This is a dangerous contrast and I feel it's contributed, even marginally, to the recent decline of Scottish football over the past five or six years.

[Scorge]

I personally value the average SPL match at around a tenner. Twenty-odd quid is just unreal for an SPL game.

Arbroath were charging 12 quid last year to watch third division football, such is the level things have got to. Elgin and Annan are the only places you can watch league football for under a tenner.

The prices are pretty much an irresistible force as you see towns like Dumfries having to charge the diehards more because of all the OF gloryhunters empty out of the place in supporters buses every Saturday.

[Eupraxia]

John Boyle tried significantly reduced ticket prices at Motherwell and lost a whole load of money. Sorry for the Daily Mail link but it's all I could find:

Celtic fans seethe as Motherwell stop price cuts | Mail Online

When I worked at AFC they tried quite a few discount schemes to dip their toes in the discount ticket waters. One that I remember was when season ticket holders could take a friend for free to a game against St. Johnstone. Although there was a higher attendance than there normally would be there wasn't a significant amount more that would have merited even a small slash in prices.

John Boyle is a cunt and I hate the Daily Mail. But that isn't my gripe with this article and Boyle's approach. It was the fact he was evidently pandering to Old Firm fans. The initiatives he dropped (cheaper tickets against the smaller teams out-with the Old Firm) as a result of his initial failure, would be the way I'd go about things. And hammer the marketing of these initiatives. I am still of the principle: if you build it, they will come.

Yay for shitty Kevin Costner movies.

I'm fully aware my ideas are fallible, but I'm just brain-storming.

[Shaki]

Good points, and it's really useful for someone to break it all down like this.

However, how you open up your post is the part of the problem, in my estimation, in that clubs are totally tunnel-visioned when it comes to this issue. They are looking at the now, and the figures that are available in black and white.

Reducing the prices substantially and even increasing the average attendance over a projected period of time by about 15% would potentially reap far more other benefits, such as:

• A healthier, more enjoyable and more spirited atmosphere.
  
• Increased morale amongst supporters, and not least the players as they will be playing to larger audiences who generally generate more noise and atmosphere.
  
• Increased revenue from refreshments (as you've alluded to).
  
• Increased custom at the in-ground betting stalls (therefore the clubs could charge the bookies more to rent the stall).
  
• Clubs would be in a better position to charge more for advertising, as they can argue that there will be more people attending and thus more exposure to the advertisements.
  
• It'd probably positively affect a club's ability to sign a slightly higher calibre of player, as they could use a higher average attendance to attract them.
  
• The future of the club could be healthier, as people will find bringing their offsprings to be more affordable, therefore influencing their decision to support the club and attend games in the future. Building a future fanbase is so crucial.
  

All of these projected benefits are obviously not guaranteed, and it would depend massively on a club's ability to promote and market itself, but it's the way I see it. All of the above, I reckon, would assist in increasing the coffers over a period of time.

Sure, it's perhaps a longer term approach, but I do feel it's an area that clubs really ought to be looking at. Supporters are on the outside looking in, and clubs are on the inside looking in. This is a dangerous contrast and I feel it's contributed, even marginally, to the recent decline of Scottish football over the past five or six years.

- Potential administration.

The view is short term because it needs to be. There's a lot to be said for your points above but nobody is in a position to look at the long game. You can see from the article on Motherwell that they reverted to normal pricing after a disastrous trial of one game which left them 25,000 poorer.

The bank manager isn't going to be interested in your five year predictions if you are starting to lose significantly more money than before.

[Eupraxia]

- Potential administration.

The view is short term because it needs to be. There's a lot to be said for your points above but nobody is in a position to look at the long game. You can see from the article on Motherwell that they reverted to normal pricing after a disastrous trial of one game which left them 25,000 poorer.

The bank manager isn't going to be interested in your five year predictions if you are starting to lose significantly more money than before.

Essentially, I know you're correct. I'm just trying to be optimistic. It's a new approach I embraced this year. It's not working out very well at all so far.

Fuck optimism; I'm never going to an Aberdeen game ever again.

[Sam 45]

In 2000 i got a season ticket at Pittodrie for 18.