ca_gere Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 It seems that the World Cup was an eye-opener for a lot of people associated with English football but I'm continually amazed by the inability of these talking heads to recognise the real problems within the British game. England weren't shit at the World Cup because they have a foreign manager or the media was putting them under too much pressure: they were shit at the World Cup because their players are products of Britain's appalling youth development philosophies and antiquated training methods.I don't really expect incisive commentary from Carragher on this issue (as he's pretty much the poster child of everything I'm talking about) but English football needs to stop making silly excuses like this and start listening to the likes of Trevor Brooking. The likes of Spain are lightyears ahead in terms of coaching methods and footballing philosophy and it's no surprise that their switch towards promoting controlling space and ball retention at youth level is now producing players like Xavi and Iniesta. Gerrard, Lampard, etc. are all statistically brilliant players but they're miles behind technically which is what makes England so insipid and one-dimensional.It's the ridiculous, parochial view that flair and technique are things to scoff at that really annoys me. I don't think there's a better example than Andy pissing Gray's statement that Barcelona and Leo Messi would struggle to compete on a cold night at the Britannia. What a load of arse. I have nothing against Tony Pulis and Stoke City, but Barcelona would pass them to death and their backline of cloggers would be utterly humiliated by the game's end. Pace, strength and energy are all valuable attributes, and I'm not saying that the tiki-taka system is "the best," but basing your national footballing philosophy in physicality isn't very bright at all.Look at the U21 Euros. England weren't eliminated solely because Stuart Pearce is a poor manager (which he is, admittedly) or because Jack Wilshere and Andy Carroll weren't there: they were eliminated because these players have no idea what to do with the ball at their feet. Aside from their solid back four, there's very little to get excited about in that team. Jordan Henderson is supposed to be a ball-player but looked completely lost in possession, and Danny Rose is as big a headless chicken as I've seen. Where are Jack Cork and Henri Lansbury going to be in 5 years? Sitting on the bench at Fulham or on-loan to Bristol City, probably. Pearce's bad management and the lack of Wilshere & Carroll obviously contributed, but there's something deeply worrying about a team of allegedly "talented" players that play 63 long balls in just 3 games.Anyway, sorry for making a massive post. I'll go and crawl back under my rock now.Cool story bro.Completely agree. Good post. The crazy thing is that the top clubs' academies are some of the best facilities in the world, yet there are very few exciting prospects coming out of them. I don't think it's got anything to do with ability either. We've talked about the whole physicality over skill thing before in this thread (well last year's) and how the bigger/stronger players are fast tracked and the slighter/skillful ones are marginalized until they stop running with the ball and start kicking people. (if not literally, at least in the aggression they show)I think even looking at the current prospect Wilshere you can see this transformation. He's slowly assuming the leader/terrier role. He's tackling harder and his overall attitude has changed from a pure football for the joy of it type into a 'letsbehavinya' come and have a go type. I think this is a knock on effect of the media spotlight on arsenal, slating them for being a wussy side and this unwritten insistence that an England midfielder needs to be a blood-stained warrior who'll dive in head first for the cause. Let the kid play football. He's clearly got a great touch and an eye for a pass, let him concentrate on that. I can see it happening that Mceachran at Chelsea wont be taken seriously until he shows he can mix it with the big boys. Such a player needs to be protected and given the freedom to show what he can do with the ball. That said, even if The under 21 squad was a joke I still have faith that when the passing of the old guard comes England will have a good enough squad to win tournaments. Smalling, Wilshere, downing, Johnson, Walcott, Milner, young, Richards ( still think he's gonna be good for England). All good football players technically, they just need to be handled right and chances are the thought of having all of them on the pitch at once or giving them time to gel just won't be entertained for fear of upsetting the '3 lions on a shirt' mob that favour hearts on sleeves over style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Easy Wishes Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I've said it before and will say again, Chris Clark got absolute pelters when he played during Calderwood's era, but we missed him loads when he left. He can also play wide as part of a midfield four.Extremely good signing IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Clark will do a solid job for the Dons. Reliable, bags of energy.Better than Derek Young, and not as much of a luxury/waster as Aluko.Good signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaki Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I've said it before and will say again, Chris Clark got absolute pelters when he played during Calderwood's era, but we missed him loads when he left. He can also play wide as part of a midfield four.Extremely good signing IMO.Clark will do a solid job for the Dons. Reliable, bags of energy.Better than Derek Young, and not as much of a luxury/waster as Aluko.Good signing.Just logged on to defend Clark from all you haters but seems I don't need to, how refreshing 8-)I suppose re-signing anyone who was never a fans favourite is not that exciting for some fans but better the devil you know....He can play anywhere in the midfield and can be used at full back too.Surely the Rae deal must be a non-starter if Osbourne is signing as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Glad to have him back, I genuinely thought he was one of our best players during his last season with us. Hopefully he'll be even better now he's a bit older and had some experience daan saaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I always liked Chris Clark. Thought he was a solid player although I never really saw him during his last season or two with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Following draws against Switzerland and Ghana before defeating international powerhouse Wales, it seems England are now, apparently, better than Brazil, Argentina & Italy among others. Fifa world rankings: England soar to fourth place, ahead of Brazil | Football | guardian.co.ukFIFA rankings are a bit pish, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Completely agree. Good post. The crazy thing is that the top clubs' academies are some of the best facilities in the world, yet there are very few exciting prospects coming out of them. I don't think it's got anything to do with ability either. We've talked about the whole physicality over skill thing before in this thread (well last year's) and how the bigger/stronger players are fast tracked and the slighter/skillful ones are marginalized until they stop running with the ball and start kicking people. (if not literally, at least in the aggression they show)I think even looking at the current prospect Wilshere you can see this transformation. He's slowly assuming the leader/terrier role. He's tackling harder and his overall attitude has changed from a pure football for the joy of it type into a 'letsbehavinya' come and have a go type. I think this is a knock on effect of the media spotlight on arsenal, slating them for being a wussy side and this unwritten insistence that an England midfielder needs to be a blood-stained warrior who'll dive in head first for the cause. Let the kid play football. He's clearly got a great touch and an eye for a pass, let him concentrate on that. I can see it happening that Mceachran at Chelsea wont be taken seriously until he shows he can mix it with the big boys. Such a player needs to be protected and given the freedom to show what he can do with the ball. That said, even if The under 21 squad was a joke I still have faith that when the passing of the old guard comes England will have a good enough squad to win tournaments. Smalling, Wilshere, downing, Johnson, Walcott, Milner, young, Richards ( still think he's gonna be good for England). All good football players technically, they just need to be handled right and chances are the thought of having all of them on the pitch at once or giving them time to gel just won't be entertained for fear of upsetting the '3 lions on a shirt' mob that favour hearts on sleeves over style.I agree to a point with Murr and ca_gere here but I think the point that Carragher makes is a valid one.Right - I'm not going to argue that Spain (and others) aren't streets ahead of England ability wise, which is why I said I didn't think they are capable with their current squad of winning tournaments (outside of an upset - Greece managed to win the Euros after all!).What I am saying is that a lot of these guys in the England squad are technically good football players and they play good football for their clubs, but the whole blood and guts apporach that ca_gere talks of, hyped up by the media means that players are absolutely shit-scared of making any sort of mistakes because they will be the scapegoat if they get beat. Players resort to long balls, putting the ball out of play etc because it's "safer" than taking a player on in your own half or passing it back to the keeper or across the edge of the box to a defender or whatever. You end up losing the ball, but at least it's lost in the opponent's half. Fucking shit way to play football and you're completely one dimensional, which means you're then relying on the opponent's defenders making a mistake or a moment of genius from an individual to carve open the defence, or set pieces for your goals.The media attention is just one part of the problem - but if they laid off, you might see players playing with a bit more freedom and showing how they can really play. I'm not stupid enough to think that would mean they start competing with the likes of Spain because they are absolutely incredible and probably the best international side in my lifetime, but I think it would help. And, it would also give them a bit of time to develop the side from the bottom up much in the way that Murr and ca_gere mention - there wouldn't be the media backlash for someone trying to play football "properly" and losing a goal or whatever because everyone should realise that they aren't currently good enough to win the World Cup.How long was it since Spain last tasted any level of international success? Fucking ages. Everyone called them "bottlers" etc for ages, but they stuck at it and have produced one of the best footballing sides ever. I know a lot of credit for that has to be given to Barcelona, but if the FA could encourage Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea etc (i.e. the teams with money) to invest properly in youth and football development to feed in to the England set up, then maybe in 10/20 years time, England could have a team that's good enough to play teams off the park and win tournaments.What the fuck am I saying - I never want England to win world cup. Apply everything I just said to Scotland instead. Scotland to win World Cup 2030. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaki Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Norway are the 11th best team in the world and Gabon are better than us. It ain't right. The only time they were acurate was in about 2007 when we were 13th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Ireland are 31st, we're definitely better than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Kai's take on the Craig Thomson situation:The Trash Whore Diaries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJimF Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 BBC News - Craig Thomson: Police probe fresh allegations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I hear we've signed Isaac Osbourne from Coventry City? Anyone know much about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I hear we've signed Isaac Osbourne from Coventry City? Anyone know much about him?He looks like an absolute monster.Will be a good signing if he can stay fit (has had injury woes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsinho Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 From the women's world cup earlier today - ?Australia denied the most blatant penalty EVER at the Women's World Cup v Equitorial Guinea?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 From the women's world cup earlier today - ?Australia denied the most blatant penalty EVER at the Women's World Cup v Equitorial Guinea??It's things like this that mean women's soccer will never be taken seriously. Fuckin hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 It's things like this that mean women's soccer will never be taken seriously. Fuckin hellDidn't an incident happen that was almost identical to this recently? Think it was Germany vs Korea or someone, and the lassie just picked up the ball as it came into the box and gave away a penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Easy Wishes Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 That is utterly ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltz Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Scott Carson's off to Bursaspor. He looks happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Womens football is pretty poor quality in all honesty. I did, however, have my interest peaked by Swedish striker Kosovare Asllani. Total babe. Couldn't give a shit whether she could kick a ball though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltz Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Couldn't give a shit whether she could kick a ball though.How modern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 How modernWhat? The only way i can legitimately find her attractive is if she's good at something, not just because she's actually good looking. Take a look at yourself pal, your attitude is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltz Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 What? The only way i can legitimately find her attractive is if she's good at something, not just because she's actually good looking. Take a look at yourself pal, your attitude is ridiculous.Seemed to me the crux of that post was you're only interested in women's football if the players are attractive.But my attitude is ridiculous, so hey. Can you be arsed arguing about this one? I was just being snide to kill some pre-work boredom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Seemed to me the crux of that post was you're only interested in women's football if the players are attractive.But my attitude is ridiculous, so hey. Can you be arsed arguing about this one? I was just being snide to kill some pre-work boredom.Not at all, just pointing out that the standard was shit but in discovering that the standard was shit i also discovered that one particular female footballer sparked Phil Jr's attention. Wouldn't matter if she was good or bad at football, i would still find her attractive. Keep your snide comments to yourself. There's no need to get all pro-feminism when it really isn't required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 I watch women's football if it's on but you can't really argue that it isn't in general much poorer quality than men's. Good to see those v.high attendances at the WWC in Germany though, hopefully that will contribute to more interest/more participants/higher quality of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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