2010/2011 Season Thread

[Paranoid Android]

What's all this nonsense about not sharing dirty little stories about Scott Leitch or Jimmy Calderwood?

An Internet message board is exactly where these kind of rumours are supposed to be spread.

[Guest Gladstone]

Well your Aberdeen supporting best mate is a) a complete fud, or b) having a giggle.

As he's your best friend, I think you could probably afford him the benefit of the doubt and go with b).

The thing is I think it's neither. He's being semi-serious. He's been posting anti-Celtic pish for ages on facebook now. He's not a complete fud at all. But he is being a complete fud with all this Celtic and in particular, Neil Lennon shit.

This is the group of guys I sat with in the Dick Donald stand. They are all normal, nice guys until they are in the stands at football - and that's now creeping it's way onto facebook and such like.

These are the kind of guys I'm talking about when I speak about it seeming to be acceptable to get stuck into Neil Lennon.

EDIT: and another mate of mine that I went to uni with who I was thinking about deleting from facebook anyway because of the incessant posting shit about anyone from Glasgow being a bigot, whilst posting pictures today of a bomb over a picture of Glasgow saying that's what it needs etc just got deleted from facebook. He's just pretty much said that Lennon deserved it as well. He is a complete fud though.

[Hugh_Jazz]

What the Hearts fan did was inexcusable and they thoroughly deserve a points deduction

Seriously?

One daft cunt has a pop at the manager and the club should take the rap?

There's nothing they could have done about it. By all means jail the guy and give him a life ban, but a points deduction would be ludicrously harsh

[Christy]

I cannot speak for every Dons fan obviously, but my initial reaction was 'FFS that is shocking, I presume/hope the Hearts fan will do time for this'.

It was followed by '...but if he had to lamp somebody, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy'.

There is an almighty difference between this sentiment and condoning it.

I know you are probably sick of hearing it by now, but if Lennon handled himself with a modicum of class then he would not be so roundly reviled by the rest of the Scottish football community (including fans). I cannot think of another manager in my lifetime who has been so despised (Sounness, perhaps); not-so-coincidentally, I cannot think of another manager in my lifetime who has been as wiflully antagonistic as Lennon.

The religion thing is a convenient excuse. No doubt, the most sectarian element of Rangers fans will hate him because he is a Northern Irish Catholic. Personally I (and most people I know) could not give less of a fuck about where he's from and what religious denomination he is; we dislike him because he is a Grade A fud. Religion issue = red herring.

[Christy]

Seriously?

One daft cunt has a pop at the manager and the club should take the rap?

There's nothing they could have done about it. By all means jail the guy and give him a life ban, but a points deduction would be ludicrously harsh

Two such incidents in two years = points deduction fo sho. Thoroughly deserved.

[Lemonade]

Innit odd that dumb shit like that seems almost exclusive to football? Behaving like an arsehole seems to just be expected on the terraces at football grounds, yet I've never seen anyone jump a barrier and try to lamp notable cunts in other sports, like Michael Schumacher, John McEnroe or Colin Montgomery, or seen thousands of people shouting dogs abuse at them and chanting stuff about their personal life. Though I would pay good money to see someone land one on Stephen Hendry

[Chris]

Innit odd that dumb shit like that seems almost exclusive to football? Behaving like an arsehole seems to just be expected on the terraces at football grounds, yet I've never seen anyone jump a barrier and try to lamp notable cunts in other sports, like Michael Schumacher, John McEnroe or Colin Montgomery, or seen thousands of people shouting dogs abuse at them and chanting stuff about their personal life. Though I would pay good money to see someone land one on Stephen Hendry

Monty gets shit shouted at him all the time, usually when playing US tournaments because they know it winds him up and affects his game. Probably the same cretins that shout "GETTINTHAHOLE!" as soon as Tiger Woods tees off a 500 yard par 5.

Otherwise carry on.

[keeno]

Lennon is clearly just using the guys jumper to blow his nose. I see nothing wrong here. In fact the mobile chav hanky may well a great gift idea for the toff who has everything.

On a more serious note I think everyone agrees attacking a manager at a football game is disgraceful. He may be the worlds most hated panto villain but no one can defend some of the things that have happened to Lennon this year. More work needs to be done to try get these idiotic fans away from stadiums but how it is going to be proactively and not reactively done is beyond me.

[Guest Gladstone]

Right, I've calmed down (a wee bit) this morning...

One interesting point my mate (best mate mentioned above) said in his little facebook conversation was that the point he was making is that this will be all over the papers etc just because it's Lennon but the Hearts player tried to punch Mulgrew and nobody will mention that.

Firstly, I think if this had happened to any other manager it would be given the same coverage. Attacking a football manager at the sideline is just ridiculous. Okay, thinking about it, it might get some more coverage, but probably because of everything else that has been directed at Lennon this season (bombs, bullets, death threats).

Putting aside the fact that the Hearts player apparently didn't try to punch Mulgrew at all (just what I've heard - haven't seen the incident!) - he makes a very good point in a round about way.

And it follows on a little bit from Lucky's point above.

Violence on the football pitch is far too widely accepted. A guy that punches someone in the face on a football pitch is red carded and banned for a few games. But, you know, punching someone in the face is a pretty serious crime.

Football players' behaviour (not all of them, obviously) is so unacceptable a lot of the time, same with fans in the ground. That goes back to my point above saying all teams have their bell ends in the stands. Some of the stuff you hear shouted at a football match (and I'm talking about amateur football right through to professional football - fuck, sometimes even kids football) is nothing short of disgraceful.

I know people are going to call me a hypocrite because Celtic fans are apparently the worst offenders in the world with their bigotry, but that's not the point. An outright insult is an outright insult and in most areas of life would be completely unacceptable.

I remember being at a Scotland game about 14/15 years ago at Ibrox vs Sweden and that black guy (Dahlin was it?) got 90 minutes of disgusting racist abuse from quite a number of fans in the stand I was in. Monkey noises, "nigger", "coon" etc being shouted and all that shit. Fucking ridiculous. At the Aberdeen v Bayern Munich match, the group round about me were giving themselves aneurisms every time Luca Toni got anywhere near the ball with torrents of abuse along the lines of "Toni you Italian greasy cheating fucking wanker" etc etc. Imagine there was an Italian or black guy at your work and you treated him like that every time he walked past? You'd be sacked pretty quickly.

Somehow behaving like a complete moron is accepted at football matches and somewhat expected from some.

This season in particular, it has just completely boiled over.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

One interesting point my mate (best mate mentioned above) said in his little facebook conversation was that the point he was making is that this will be all over the papers etc just because it's Lennon but the Hearts player tried to punch Mulgrew and nobody will mention that.

No, I don't think he did. It was a super harsh red card because to me (and to Jim Jeffries and Neil Lennon by the looks of things), it looked like he was just trying to push Mulgers away. Ridiculous red card.

Putting aside the fact that the Hearts player apparently didn't try to punch Mulgrew at all (just what I've heard - haven't seen the incident!) - he makes a very good point in a round about way.

And it follows on a little bit from Lucky's point above.

Violence on the football pitch is far too widely accepted. A guy that punches someone in the face on a football pitch is red carded and banned for a few games. But, you know, punching someone in the face is a pretty serious crime.

How often does that actually happen though? Like, a proper punch? And when it does, it's usually a reaction to an awful tackle or provocation of some kind (such as Zidane's headbutt on Materazzi).

Football players' behaviour (not all of them, obviously) is so unacceptable a lot of the time, same with fans in the ground. That goes back to my point above saying all teams have their bell ends in the stands. Some of the stuff you hear shouted at a football match (and I'm talking about amateur football right through to professional football - fuck, sometimes even kids football) is nothing short of disgraceful.

I agree, and while sectarianism and racism have no place anywhere let alone inside a football ground, it has to be understood that a degree of abuse is going to happen. Nacho Novo is a dickhead. I liked to tell him that when he visited Pittodrie.

I know people are going to call me a hypocrite because Celtic fans are apparently the worst offenders in the world with their bigotry, but that's not the point. An outright insult is an outright insult and in most areas of life would be completely unacceptable.

Celtic and Rangers fans are both as bad as each other IMO. As stated above sectarianism and bigotted songs have no place in society, let alone inside Scottish football grounds. They are disgusting human beings in the most part.

At the Aberdeen v Bayern Munich match, the group round about me were giving themselves aneurisms every time Luca Toni got anywhere near the ball with torrents of abuse along the lines of "Toni you Italian greasy cheating fucking wanker" etc etc. Imagine there was an Italian or black guy at your work and you treated him like that every time he walked past? You'd be sacked pretty quickly.

Clearly 'banter' - in fact Luca Toni gave the stand back as much as he got it could be argued! He took it in jest, we (as Dons fans) took his reaction in jest. You can't sterilise the football experience to the point the above kind of remarks are removed from the stand. Part of the experience is a tribal experience of hating your opposition for 90 minutes. It's idiots that can't understand where that line is drawn (e.g. that cunt that dunted Lennon last night).

Somehow behaving like a complete moron is accepted at football matches and somewhat expected from some.

Behaving like a 'moron' if you define that as singing songs about hating Rangers and Celtic or giving Steven Whittaker abuse at the touchline because he's a fud will never change and is wholly acceptable IMO.

It's those who take it too far and break the law (sectarianism, fighting, etc) that is unacceptable.

This season in particular, it has just completely boiled over.

Coincidental that it's Lennon's first full season in charge?

[Guest Gladstone]

No, I don't think he did. It was a super harsh red card because to me (and to Jim Jeffries and Neil Lennon by the looks of things), it looked like he was just trying to push Mulgers away. Ridiculous red card.

And it follows on a little bit from Lucky's point above.

How often does that actually happen though? Like, a proper punch? And when it does, it's usually a reaction to an awful tackle or provocation of some kind (such as Zidane's headbutt on Materazzi).

I agree, and while sectarianism and racism have no place anywhere let alone inside a football ground, it has to be understood that a degree of abuse is going to happen. Nacho Novo is a dickhead. I liked to tell him that when he visited Pittodrie.

Celtic and Rangers fans are both as bad as each other IMO. As stated above sectarianism and bigotted songs have no place in society, let alone inside Scottish football grounds. They are disgusting human beings in the most part.

Clearly 'banter' - in fact Luca Toni gave the stand back as much as he got it could be argued! He took it in jest, we (as Dons fans) took his reaction in jest. You can't sterilise the football experience to the point the above kind of remarks are removed from the stand. Part of the experience is a tribal experience of hating your opposition for 90 minutes. It's idiots that can't understand where that line is drawn (e.g. that cunt that dunted Lennon last night).

Behaving like a 'moron' if you define that as singing songs about hating Rangers and Celtic or giving Steven Whittaker abuse at the touchline because he's a fud will never change and is wholly acceptable IMO.

It's those who take it too far and break the law (sectarianism, fighting, etc) that is unacceptable.

Coincidental that it's Lennon's first full season in charge?

Firstly - it's no coincidence, I agree. That doesn't mean it's all Neil Lennon's fault though. I'm not saying he is blameless, not at all. But it's football fans/society that has the wider problem than Neil Lennon's personal problems in my opinion.

I completely agree with your point about "banter" back and forth between fans and players - that should be allowed. But what I heard directed at Luca Toni (I was in the upper tier of the Dick Donald stand) was nothing that Toni could hear (so that probably means it won't hurt his feelings, but doesn't make it okay) and it was beyond banter - there was pure hatred coming out of this one guy in particular that I have in mind. This guy is normally a very pleasant young man. Fairly quiet actually. Couple of pints in, in amongst the "tribe" and he spent 90 minutes abusing Luca Toni instead of enjoying what was a magic game of football in which his team played absolutely brilliantly against a very good team.

And the "banter" point is something else that brings up a wider issue with the crowd and football in general. We've entered an era where it's almost unacceptable for players/managers to join in with the banter. A couple of weeks ago at Ibrox when Lennon cupped his ears as he walked off. That should just be put down to banter - a bit cheeky, nothing more. (In the context of what had recently happened with Lennon it was definitely misguided, but then that goes back to an earlier point of "letting the morons win" - why should those idiots stop Neil Lennon joining in with the banter?).

A few years ago Artur Boruc wasn't allowed to participate in banter. He crossed himself at Ibrox and incited a near riot. Most folk have seen the footage from a Rangers fan's mobile phone with thousands of people going fucking ballistic because Boruc crossed himself. Something he does at every other ground and nobody bats an eyelid. I know he did it on purpose to wind them up, but who's got the bigger problem here? Boruc or the thousands of fans wanting to kill him for making a religious gesture? I mean - how can any sane human being get wound up about a guy crossing himself? Amoruso used to cross himself at Ibrox. Boruc also once got booked for clapping Hibs fans. Hibs fans that had been giving him pelters for 90 minutes. Clapping. Fucking clapping!!

Nacho Novo got into some deep shit for flashing the top of his arse crack to Dons fans who abused him for about 7 years everytime he visited.

Football fans dish it out week in week out but the second that someone (well - it usually depends who that someone is) does anything back, they take the moral high ground and run to the stewards/police to try and get them into trouble. It's like a school playground.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

And the "banter" point is something else that brings up a wider issue with the crowd and football in general. We've entered an era where it's almost unacceptable for players/managers to join in with the banter. A couple of weeks ago at Ibrox when Lennon cupped his ears as he walked off. That should just be put down to banter - a bit cheeky, nothing more. (In the context of what had recently happened with Lennon it was definitely misguided, but then that goes back to an earlier point of "letting the morons win" - why should those idiots stop Neil Lennon joining in with the banter?).

It's circumstance. Lennon already knows he's a target for this stuff. I agree that players and managers joining in with a bit of banter is largely fine; but when you are in Lennon's position - already in a bit of trouble - you need to use a bit of common sense, no?

A few years ago Artur Boruc wasn't allowed to participate in banter. He crossed himself at Ibrox and incited a near riot.

Let's be honest though, he didn't just cross himself, he crossed himself in a way that he would (knowingly) wind up Rangers fans. If he had just crossed himself in the way he normally did, to himself and without making a big deal of it, there wouldn't have been as much of an issue. Surely you can see that?

Nacho Novo got into some deep shit for flashing the top of his arse crack to Dons fans who abused him for about 7 years everytime he visited.

Yep, and Lee Miller got the same shit for flashing United fans.

Football fans dish it out week in week out but the second that someone (well - it usually depends who that someone is) does anything back, they take the moral high ground and run to the stewards/police to try and get them into trouble. It's like a school playground.

The main difference here is that while reciprocal 'banter' is all well and good, the fact that footballers are in a very unique position - a position of responsibility to at least be semi-decent role models as there are not only kids but adults who look up to and idolise them - plays a huge part in why they are hammered for the likes of pulling their shorts down or gesturing to the crowd. It's incitement, essentially - there is always going to be a minority of idiots in the crowd, who like I say, take it that bit too far and footballers playing up to them is only going to encourage excessive behaviour.

[Guest Gladstone]

It's circumstance. Lennon already knows he's a target for this stuff. I agree that players and managers joining in with a bit of banter is largely fine; but when you are in Lennon's position - already in a bit of trouble - you need to use a bit of common sense, no?

Let's be honest though, he didn't just cross himself, he crossed himself in a way that he would (knowingly) wind up Rangers fans. If he had just crossed himself in the way he normally did, to himself and without making a big deal of it, there wouldn't have been as much of an issue. Surely you can see that?

Yep, and Lee Miller got the same shit for flashing United fans.

The main difference here is that while reciprocal 'banter' is all well and good, the fact that footballers are in a very unique position - a position of responsibility to at least be semi-decent role models as there are not only kids but adults who look up to and idolise them - plays a huge part in why they are hammered for the likes of pulling their shorts down or gesturing to the crowd. It's incitement, essentially - there is always going to be a minority of idiots in the crowd, who like I say, take it that bit too far and footballers playing up to them is only going to encourage excessive behaviour.

Yes - of course he should use some common sense. But that's not the point. What did he do? Put his hands behind his ears. That should not wind up anyone. You seem to be agreeing with me but disagreeing with me.

Lennon should know that if he does that he's going to wind up Rangers fans. But - is it Lennon that has the problem or the Rangers fans who on the back of Lennon CUPPING HIS EARS might attack him on the street or send him bullets in the post or whatever?

Same with Boruc - yes he intentionally wound up Rangers fans, and yes it was a bit stupid. I'm not saying it wasn't - but if the Rangers fans weren't a bunch of knuckle dragging morons looking for any excuse to go mental at a Celtic player, it wouldn't have been an issue.

Miller/Novo - I wasn't using the Novo thing as an example to have a go at Dons fans - I forgot about the Miller incident - but that also illustrates my point. Miller was no doubt taking absolute pelters and flashed a bit of arse. Not a particularly sensible thing to do, but really - how bad is that?

And then you're saying that players need to be role models etc which brings us full circle to my earlier point of violence on the football pitch. I used the example of punching in the face - which is obviously an extreme example, but the aggression on a football pitch by many players, the swearing, surrounding the ref, squaring up, bad tackles etc are part and parcel of the game which really needs to be cleaned up. It's ridiculous that if I swore at a ref in Sunday league amateur football I'd get a red card, but you can clearly see a player like Rooney swearing like a little trooper at a ref/linesman every game and he doesn't get booked for it. The only time there's an issue is when the camera actually catches him saying "fuck" and it's broadcast on live TV.

[Paranoid Android]

I really wish so many football fans weren't such utter cunts.

[french_disko]

I fucking despise this season, everything about it from beginning to end has been poisonous, self-serving, destructive and farcical.

Everything is shite about fitba just now - everything. From FIFA corruption to the Premiership to bullets in the post to mail bombs to referee strikes to Mouriniho to the diving & bollocks at El Classico to a Hearts fan attacking Lennon... all shite. All of it.

Top that off with a utterly fucking shite season for the Dons & the National Team playing with no strikers.

Fuck all this bollocks, fuck it all.

[Moose]

Fuck all this bollocks, fuck it all.

My sentiments exactly.

[Christy]

Yes - of course he should use some common sense. But that's not the point. What did he do? Put his hands behind his ears. That should not wind up anyone. .

Gladstone you make some great points and then ruin them with statements such as this.

Of course the physical action of cupping ones' ears should not be inflammatory; it is an arbitrary physical movement. In the same way, someone decided years back that by extending my middle finger, I am being insulting. The actual action is of course totally innocuous; if he had started scratching his belly instead of cupping his ears nobody would have mentioned it. If I extend my thumb rather than my middle finger it has a totally different meaning, but the act remains nearly the same.

The point is that the meaning behind the action is inflammatory. By cupping his ears to say 'I can't hear you', this childish act of defiance in front of opposing fans in the flesh - and millions more on TV - WILL incite a reaction from opposing fans (and indeed his team's own fans). And can you guess what kind of a reaction that will be? That's right, one of hatred. Us vs the world. Tribalism. A VERY fucking stupid thing for such a prominent figure to be doing in such a volatile (indeed, life-endangering, at the risk of sounding melodramatic) environment. Had there not been bombs sent to him recently? Had there not been a recent resurgence in Sectarian killings in Northern Ireland just one week previously? I was in Belfast for that game (and then flew into Glasgow later that day) and believe me, the atmosphere in both cities reminded me once again how great it is to be an Aberdeen fan. In fact, I was in Northern Ireland for two Old Firm games this season and idiotic gestures such as Lennon's do not take into account the pissed-up people the world over who will react.

The Luca Toni situation was obviously entirely different. At the end of the game he came over to the south stand and applauded us and got an ovation back. The very definition of pantomine villain. Neil Lennon is not a pantomine villain.

He's a very naughty boy

[Guest Gladstone]

Gladstone you make some great points and then ruin them with statements such as this.

Of course the physical action of cupping ones' ears should not be inflammatory; it is an arbitrary physical movement. In the same way, someone decided years back that by extending my middle finger, I am being insulting. The actual action is of course totally innocuous; if he had started scratching his belly instead of cupping his ears nobody would have mentioned it. If I extend my thumb rather than my middle finger it has a totally different meaning, but the act remains nearly the same.

The point is that the meaning behind the action is inflammatory. By cupping his ears to say 'I can't hear you', this childish act of defiance in front of opposing fans in the flesh - and millions more on TV - WILL incite a reaction from opposing fans (and indeed his team's own fans). And can you guess what kind of a reaction that will be? That's right, one of hatred. Us vs the world. Tribalism. A VERY fucking stupid thing for such a prominent figure to be doing in such a volatile (indeed, life-endangering, at the risk of sounding melodramatic) environment. Had there not been bombs sent to him recently? Had there not been a recent resurgence in Sectarian killings in Northern Ireland just one week previously? I was in Belfast for that game (and then flew into Glasgow later that day) and believe me, the atmosphere in both cities reminded me once again how great it is to be an Aberdeen fan. In fact, I was in Northern Ireland for two Old Firm games this season and idiotic gestures such as Lennon's do not take into account the pissed-up people the world over who will react.

The Luca Toni situation was obviously entirely different. At the end of the game he came over to the south stand and applauded us and got an ovation back. The very definition of pantomine villain. Neil Lennon is not a pantomine villain.

He's a very naughty boy

Listen - I do agree with you. I genuinely do - and that is kind of my point. Yes - I agree, what Lennon did was stupid. But - that should not incite the reaction it got. He should know better and should know that it would incite that reaction - of course he should.

I am not defending his actions in that instance - what I'm saying is that people should have bigger things to worry about than Neil Lennon saying "I can't hear you". That's the point.

People are fucking stupid - football fans can be incredibly stupid.

It's a sad day when Lennon can't do the "I can't hear you thing" in a game of football. In the context of a very close title race where Celtic had just gained the upper hand over their closest rivals - that should just be banter. I know in the context of everything that just happened, it was a daft thing for him to do and that it WOULD incite hatred. My point is that it SHOULD NOT incite hatred.

[Hugh_Jazz]

Sure it shouldn't....but we're now confusing idealism and realism.

Lennon was an arse to cup his ears at the Rangers fans. Whether it "should" have provoked a reaction or not is irrelevant. The point is that it was always going to provoke a reaction and Lennon knew it, and did it anyway.

[Christy]

^^^

Then we agree. If I were to walk around Toxteth on match day with a Man U top on I should not get a kicking because it's just silly fitba rivalry and who really is offended by a shirt? But that won't be of much comfort when I'm in the hospital.

Bottom line; do not make inflammatory gestures that you KNOW, rightly or wrongly, will cause a shitstorm.

[Guest Gladstone]

Sure it shouldn't....but we're now confusing idealism and realism.

Lennon was an arse to cup his ears at the Rangers fans. Whether it "should" have provoked a reaction or not is irrelevant. The point is that it was always going to provoke a reaction and Lennon knew it, and did it anyway.

How is it irrelevant?

I agree that he was stupid to do it because he knew the reaction it would provoke. Okay? I've agreed with that point.

Now - the other point is that the fact that him cupping his ears to the Rangers fans (or Boruc crossing himself, or Novo flashing his arse, or Miller flashing his arse, or Boruc clapping at fans) incites that reaction. There is a real problem that people get themselves that worked up about such an innocuous action. It's a game of football and it should be left within the ground. Getting wound up to boiling point within the ground is stupid enough, but if it was left there and nobody jumped the barrier to have a pop etc. that would be just about okay.

[davidm]

I've lost almost all interest in football thanks to this season. I wouldn't consider myself a fan of Inverness CT any more. Couldn't tell you where we are in the league, who we're playing next week etc. I think I'm just going to support a team that I have no affiliation with at all to get away from Scottish football. The game is an embarrassment. I've never understood why 'tribalism' has to be a part of watching football and why it makes it a better experience to go to a game. say whatever you like, it doesn't really matter. I look forward to a few years time when I move away and I never have to hear/read about the childishness of almost everyone involved in Scottish football again.

[Guest Gladstone]

I've lost almost all interest in football thanks to this season. I wouldn't consider myself a fan of Inverness CT any more. Couldn't tell you where we are in the league, who we're playing next week etc. I think I'm just going to support a team that I have no affiliation with at all to get away from Scottish football. The game is an embarrassment. I've never understood why 'tribalism' has to be a part of watching football and why it makes it a better experience to go to a game. say whatever you like, it doesn't really matter. I look forward to a few years time when I move away and I never have to hear/read about the childishness of almost everyone involved in Scottish football again.

I'm getting pretty close to this actually.

[Hugh_Jazz]

How is it irrelevant?

I agree that he was stupid to do it because he knew the reaction it would provoke. Okay? I've agreed with that point.

Now - the other point is that the fact that him cupping his ears to the Rangers fans (or Boruc crossing himself, or Novo flashing his arse, or Miller flashing his arse, or Boruc clapping at fans) incites that reaction. There is a real problem that people get themselves that worked up about such an innocuous action. It's a game of football and it should be left within the ground. Getting wound up to boiling point within the ground is stupid enough, but if it was left there and nobody jumped the barrier to have a pop etc. that would be just about okay.

It's irrelevant because you're arguing an idealistic point that has no basis in reality.

We're basically agreeing with one another. The crowd reaction to these actions IS fucking ridiculous, but right or wrong, that is the world we live in and it simply isn't going to change, so we might as well accept it. Might sound defeatist, but this has been the case for decades and there isn't any evidence I've seen to suggest that things are improving on the terraces. If anything, people are more petty, more antagonistic, more tribal than ever.

All players and managers knows this is the case, so frankly, the onus is on them to behave in an anti-inflammatory manner.

Fans will always be fuckwits, and no amount of wishing that they weren't will change it.

[Paranoid Android]

Fans will always be fuckwits, and no amount of wishing that they weren't will change it.

Not with an attitude like that they wont!

*Insert angry smiley here, but one that is a little more sarcastic looking than is available on this site*