Aberdeen Journals and local music

[framheim]

I'm not hijacking this thread, I'm airing my views and I make no apologies for it, if people can't respond intelligently in an impersonal way like grownups, that's not my problem atall.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to explain exactly how many people out of the tiny population of aberdeen they expect to get going regularly to gigs.

depends on the gig. there's no way anyone can produce a number as there's too many variables involved.

[Stripey]

i just think if you can't get any enjoyment out of what you're doing then perhaps you shouldn't be doing it. it can't be a very happy way to spend your time. unless you want to be a tortured artist which is all a bit contrived in this day and age isn't it? ach well. we'll agree to disagree and move on shall we? i'd imagine this is as boring to read as it is to type out time after time

Yeah artistry is dead lets all work for the entertainment sector and "have a laff". Anyway I could discuss this forever so I won't go on.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Artistry is not dead, its just well concealed.

I, usually, enjoy making music, but it is the gibbering part of my brain that INSISTS I make some, without which I would be unhappy, that must be sated.

[soundian]

Fuckingffsffdsdfas! A promoter PROMOTES. If he doesn't do it right, I'd say the band are well within their rights to have a moan - if the problem is solely because nobody knew the gig was happening.

The band doesn't expect the promoter to get onstage and play drums for them and the promoter shouldn't expect the band to go out pan handling for people to play to.

This attitude really annoys me. Yes, a promoter should promote your gigs properly and shame on them that don't even try BUT...

It's not a promoters job to promote the band, that's the bands job. Missing out on any chance of promoting your band because of some cock-eyed logic is stupid, stupid, stupid.

Consider this scenario:

A record company picks you up, likes your stuff, releases it, sets up a tour to promote it and lines up some radio and press interviews in each city. Using this logic you would have to refuse to do any interviews because:

It's not your job to promote the gigs, it's the local promoters.

It's not your job to promote the album, it's the record companies.

Anyone who goes into the music business (as opposed to just playing music because they enjoy it) with that attitude deserves exactly what they get, which is generally nothing apart from a brief bit of local recognition and a lifetime of "I could've been a contender".

I can't believe I got through all that without swearing.

[framheim]

Yeah artistry is dead lets all work for the entertainment sector and "have a laff". Anyway I could discuss this forever so I won't go on.

it's not as simple as that. it is possible to do be artistic and enjoy it you know.

[Inkster]

This attitude really annoys me. Yes, a promoter should promote your gigs properly and shame on them that don't even try BUT...

It's not a promoters job to promote the band, that's the bands job. Missing out on any chance of promoting your band because of some cock-eyed logic is stupid, stupid, stupid.

Consider this scenario:

A record company picks you up, likes your stuff, releases it, sets up a tour to promote it and lines up some radio and press interviews in each city. Using this logic you would have to refuse to do any interviews because:

It's not your job to promote the gigs, it's the local promoters.

It's not your job to promote the album, it's the record companies.

Anyone who goes into the music business (as opposed to just playing music because they enjoy it) with that attitude deserves exactly what they get, which is generally nothing apart from a brief bit of local recognition and a lifetime of "I could've been a contender".

I can't believe I got through all that without swearing.

Well said that man

[Guest Steven Dedalus]

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to explain exactly how many people out of the tiny population of aberdeen they expect to get going regularly to gigs.

At our peak, Dedalus were able to pull a crowd of about 100 people maybe more, depending on the gig.

When combined with the efforts of bands like AKA the Fox and the Little Kicks, I do recall packing the Lemon Tree to the rafters. That's about 500 people or something? All for local bands?

Now, the beauty of that was that you could see the different crowds, and people were down for different bands, but a good time was (apparently) being had by all. And the next time we played, there's be a few more...until our 'sabbatical', when the crowds started to dwindle....change is the mother of invention, people!!!

So, if I were to relate this to the main crux of what we've been discussing, the diversity in the crowd always made me feel that if there had been some outlet for bringing the bands to a different audience, then there would be people who would pick up on it and appreciate it. People who otherwise would have never heard of our band, but who might have really enjoyed us, could have come to see us.

Ie. The local press.

[Lemonade]

I recall standing in on bass duties for Sirius once upstairs in O'Donahues along with Point Of Origin, and the entire crowd consisted of the two bands and their girlfriends. That was funny. Terry Cunt still managed to wreck the place. my old band Lost played to about 8 people in Drakes once, and that was supporting a touring band.

[Stripey]

it's not as simple as that. it is possible to do be artistic and enjoy it you know.

I didn't say the two were mutually exclusive.

[Andy Mulhern]

This attitude really annoys me. Yes, a promoter should promote your gigs properly and shame on them that don't even try BUT...

It's not a promoters job to promote the band, that's the bands job. Missing out on any chance of promoting your band because of some cock-eyed logic is stupid, stupid, stupid.

Consider this scenario:

A record company picks you up, likes your stuff, releases it, sets up a tour to promote it and lines up some radio and press interviews in each city. Using this logic you would have to refuse to do any interviews because:

It's not your job to promote the gigs, it's the local promoters.

It's not your job to promote the album, it's the record companies.

Anyone who goes into the music business (as opposed to just playing music because they enjoy it) with that attitude deserves exactly what they get, which is generally nothing apart from a brief bit of local recognition and a lifetime of "I could've been a contender".

I can't believe I got through all that without swearing.

totally agree

[Bigsby]

it sounds counter-intuitive at first, but I don't know that making music is or should be about "having fun". It's a myth that's been peddled to kids since the 80's, punk, dire straits and MTV.

Hey, keep Dire Straits out of this.

They've never been fun.

[Bigsby]

Im absolutely disgusted that a few of you are making lewd suggestions as to why they have a 15 year old drummer.

I'm more concerned about what the band's "fans" are up to. o_O

That poor young boy looks scared.

[Chris]

my old band Lost played to about 8 people in Drakes once, and that was supporting a touring band.

Hey I think I was one of those 8 people

[Old Gold]

I can't believe I got through all that without swearing.

Chill out, I was just pointing out that it's the promoters job to promote gigs, as their 'job title' suggests.

A musician's job description doesn't have to involve whoring themselves out to the general public (they make music as their title suggests), and I certainly didn't mention the words 'record company'

[ROSS (AGP)]

As a promoter (very general term) you speak very little sense!

I start by searching for bands I think will work here, contact their management/booking agency, negotiate fee, contract and all add ons like hotels etc, negotiate suitable dates and thats just the start. Then we have to do posters, e flyers, myspace work etc. As you rightly point out it is then my job to help promote the gig as a whole but without the help of the bands press people - ie getting them on local radio, sending out promo CDs to local DJs, getting newspaper interviews, NME ads for the tour etc it would be very hard.

There are only so many people I can reach through the likes of this forum and my own website.

The bands input is essential otherwise they wouldnt have PR companies. I also rely heavily on the local supports I put on doing some work to get their mates/fans down and to spread the word. The ones that do are the ones we keep using. Those as Ive said before that turn up with 8 people arent likely to be asked again. Just shows they cant even get friends to go so whats the likliehood of anyone that doesnt know them going. Its also a good idea to make yourself look popular when supporting so that the main bands management/label take some notice.

I fully appreciate that part of my job is to "promote" but the title is a little general. It should be down to all parties to help the cause. Surely all bands would rather play to a full room than an empty one and a promoter alone cant fill a room of 300 people!

[soundian]

Chill out, I was just pointing out that it's the promoters job to promote gigs, as their 'job title' suggests.

A musician's job description doesn't have to involve whoring themselves out to the general public (they make music as their title suggests), and I certainly didn't mention the words 'record company'

If you can't see what I'm trying to tell you in plain English then I'm afraid that for once I'm in the stripey camp. i.e. you are an egotistical idiot who I hope has no success in your future musical career.

People like you, who have more ego than talent, make my job really difficult and I really wish you would take your juvenile meanderings and

[scottyboy]

Grrrrrrrrrrr

[Old Gold]

you are an egotistical idiot who I hope has no success in your future musical career.

There's no need to make it personal! Ouch!

[Alan Cynic]

Those as Ive said before that turn up with 8 people arent likely to be asked again. Just shows they cant even get friends to go so whats the likliehood of anyone that doesnt know them going. !

That sounds like me! I'm always chuffed if I get 8 people, as I've only got 3 friends:up:

Find myself siding with Spanish Armada here (despite my meanderings being more senile than juvenile).

ps...I'm happy to be blacklisted by AGP though...it'll look good on the CV

(no offence meant)

[Bigsby]

That sounds like me! I'm always chuffed if I get 8 people, as I've only got 3 friends:up:

Does that include me?

Actually, I'm more of an accquaintance. Carry on, nothing to see here.

[stuartmaxwell]

As a promoter (very general term) you speak very little sense!

I start by searching for bands I think will work here, contact their management/booking agency, negotiate fee, contract and all add ons like hotels etc, negotiate suitable dates and thats just the start. Then we have to do posters, e flyers, myspace work etc. As you rightly point out it is then my job to help promote the gig as a whole but without the help of the bands press people - ie getting them on local radio, sending out promo CDs to local DJs, getting newspaper interviews, NME ads for the tour etc it would be very hard.

There are only so many people I can reach through the likes of this forum and my own website.

The bands input is essential otherwise they wouldnt have PR companies. I also rely heavily on the local supports I put on doing some work to get their mates/fans down and to spread the word. The ones that do are the ones we keep using. Those as Ive said before that turn up with 8 people arent likely to be asked again. Just shows they cant even get friends to go so whats the likliehood of anyone that doesnt know them going. Its also a good idea to make yourself look popular when supporting so that the main bands management/label take some notice.

I fully appreciate that part of my job is to "promote" but the title is a little general. It should be down to all parties to help the cause. Surely all bands would rather play to a full room than an empty one and a promoter alone cant fill a room of 300 people!

no offence ross, but from what I can gather this is how you make your living. You have different motivations from some of the people on this thread. Im sure its not the only motivation you have, but at the end of the day your living/head is on the chopping board if you dont get these gigs busy, you are the kinda guy that is in the pocket of industry people. you will be doing lots of favours for people in the industry, putting on shit bands so that the agent might give you a crack of the whip with good bands etc

therefore in my eyes, and many others, your opinions will be absolutely null and void, you will not convince me, or many of the musicians on this forum otherwise.

im sure that people who are involved the industry, bands who are trying to make it, bands who play "showcase" events and industry events will be on your boat, but to be honest guys like Ryan and Alan play gigs for themselves, not for their reputation/record sale$$$ etc

I hope it doesnt come across like I'm knocking what you are doing, because I am most definetly not. Its more different strokes for different folks

[soundian]

There's no need to make it personal! Ouch!

I said you were an egotistical idiot if you couldn't understand what I was trying to tell you so since you think that was a personal insult I can only assume you're owning up to the fact.

Let me put it in short, simple words so you may actually understand this time.

Just because you took the time and trouble to pick up a guitar/keyboard/drumsticks doesn't make you a better than the next person and certainly doesn't make you so brilliant that you can sit on your arse doing nothing while other people run around doing your work for you.

If you're quite happy just having "musician" as your "job description" (get over yourself) then what gives you the right to say that complaining about a poor turnout at one of your gigs is OK?

If there is a poor turnout at a gig then the artists involved should look at themselves first and if they've done nothing to promote themselves then they have lost the right to criticise anyone else's attempts*.

This attitude that a musician plays and writes music and a promoter promotes and never the twain shall meet really does sicken me. If you continue with that attitude then I wish you every failure in your future "career".

Btw, I have no idea who you are so don't take this too personally. I do however know a lot of people with the same attitude and they should all either pull the finger out or stfu.

* I do agree that some of what passes for promotion in this town is laughable and deserves criticism but not from lazy bastards who want the world handed to them on a plate.

[Jeanette]

* I do agree that some of what passes for promotion in this town is laughable and deserves criticism...

I think this should be perhaps directed at the supermassive company who decided to buy into Moshulu. I hardly ever ever see posters outside of Moshulu for gigs in Moshulu, which is a tad stupid since I'm sure there's plenty people who have never been to a club night (they prob don't want their feet sticking to the floor). I'm sure there's plenty I've missed and if it wasn't for forums like this where people are actually discussing the gigs then I wouldn't know. So when the promoter doesn't do their job it kinda falls to the band to at least ensure that their fans know about the gigs!!

It's not difficult to spend a Saturday afternoon sticking posters in windows around town!

[stuartmaxwell]

interesting that they also assign the rights to the technology patents too

they alone (if any good) could be a good purchase if someone had the know how and ability to exploit them commercially on a larger basis

[Chris]

I think this should be perhaps directed at the supermassive company who decided to buy into Moshulu. I hardly ever ever see posters outside of Moshulu for gigs in Moshulu, which is a tad stupid since I'm sure there's plenty people who have never been to a club night (they prob don't want their feet sticking to the floor). I'm sure there's plenty I've missed and if it wasn't for forums like this where people are actually discussing the gigs then I wouldn't know. So when the promoter doesn't do their job it kinda falls to the band to at least ensure that their fans know about the gigs!!

It's not difficult to spend a Saturday afternoon sticking posters in windows around town!

To be fair that kind of problem was happening long before Barfly got involved in Moshulu, and it's not the only venue in town that doesn't exactly shout about it's gigs from the rooftops.