Lemon Tree No More???

[nesta6245]

The AECC has been getting its act together..the Lemon Tree hasn't.

It maybe getting it's act together, but it's a horrible venue. Too big and canvernous imo, too difficult to get too and lets face it all the corrugated iron does nothing for the acoustics.

[nesta6245]

trying to raise money to save the venue really isnt the answer i feel, all it would be doing is papering over the cracks. someone needs to take hold of the business and give it a complete overhaul. it needs to be someone who looks at the project long term and is prepared to lose money in the short term whilst sorting the place out.

I totally agree but in the short term would it not be better to keep the place open and then hopefully the board can look at their options, ie taking someone in to sort the mess out and get it running at full potential. Once it closes down for good who knows what could happen it may never reopen in it's original form.

[Murrr]

I'm not that fussed... it's a shame about people losing their jobs and all but the place had been putting on fewer and fewer gigs I was interested in over recent years (although admittedly some corkers have already been mentioned in this threat), and the stupid ticket prices put me off gigs I might have otherwise been interested in.

I echo the points put forward by Scott and Stuart. I have the utmost sympathy for those who have lost their jobs at this time of year but from where I stand the 200,000 idea looks to be incredibly misguided. Honestly, what on Earth is going to happen once the initial 200k has been bumped in? It sounds like the business needs a complete revamp from top to bottom in order for it to become sustainable and that's something that will take a great deal of time, effort and money. There's absolutely no point whatsoever in saving the place if it's going to continue to haemorrhage money.

[Scootray]

Once it closes down for good who knows what could happen it may never reopen in it's original form.

That's maybe a good thing? Seriously there is no point in putting money into a business that is hemorrhaging money whilst the board decide what they want to do.

Let someone else take the reigns and do it justice.

[Murrr]

trying to raise money to save the venue really isnt the answer i feel, all it would be doing is papering over the cracks. someone needs to take hold of the business and give it a complete overhaul. it needs to be someone who looks at the project long term and is prepared to lose money in the short term whilst sorting the place out.

Actually, this post is pretty much perfect.

[thegossip]

no cuts

that's what i thought but then becky said "the bottom line is that yesterday the council cut all funding" which seems to go against that. hence my question to try and get some solid facts out.

The council offered 2 ways for the venue to stay open, they did not cut the usual grant. That is a solid fact. Unless becky was at the meeting and heard something different.

Remember the LT has had its core funding taken away by the Arts Council. The council have done a hell of a lot more for the Lemon Tree than anyone else, so stop giving them a hard time people.

My only other post on this forum was......yes you've guessed it.....about the lemon tree in financial difficulty!

500 signatures on a petition. woopie. who's going to read that and care?

I'm sorry people are out of jobs, but it is not the fault of the council. The loss of the SAC grant, and the SHOCKING report should have been the kick up the backside they needed, but nothing happened.

The Lemon Tree is dead. Long Live the Union Terrace Gardens Project.

[delboy]

tbh if it does close for good then it might serve as a wake up call for other venues (i'm talking nationally here not locally). the waterfront in norwich, for example, is another venue very similar to the lemon tree that has constantly lost money and been funded by grants. there just comes a time when if a venue which relies of funding is constantly losing money then the way its financed has to be looked at.

[ben_1903]

Okay, so i haven't resd the whole thread but i gather the lemon tree is going to be dying.

Can't say we're going to miss it.

it hasn't been putting on decent gigs in years.

Moshulu now ownedy barfly. Tunnels getting loads good gigs

all is well.

[framheim]

The council offered 2 ways for the venue to stay open, they did not cut the usual grant. That is a solid fact. Unless becky was at the meeting and heard something different.

Remember the LT has had its core funding taken away by the Arts Council. The council have done a hell of a lot more for the Lemon Tree than anyone else, so stop giving them a hard time people.

My only other post on this forum was......yes you've guessed it.....about the lemon tree in financial difficulty!

500 signatures on a petition. woopie. who's going to read that and care?

I'm sorry people are out of jobs, but it is not the fault of the council. The loss of the SAC grant, and the SHOCKING report should have been the kick up the backside they needed, but nothing happened.

The Lemon Tree is dead. Long Live the Union Terrace Gardens Project.

no ones giving them a hard time. were you at the meeting to hear the full options in person? or are you getting your information from the press like the rest of us? you can't just claim something is a solid fact, you have to provide evidence to prove it.

i agree though that the council have done more than most over the years for the lemon tree and couldn't continue to fund it when it was just losing money.

[jester1470]

Okay, so i haven't resd the whole thread but i gather the lemon tree is going to be dying.

Can't say we're going to miss it.

it hasn't been putting on decent gigs in years.

Moshulu now ownedy barfly. Tunnels getting loads good gigs

all is well.

It's not that it hasnt been putting on good gigs, there's been some great gigs there the last few years, maybe just not the sort of gigs you likem, but the advantage of the Lemon Tree was that it had appeal to all ages and all genre's something that, sadly no toher venue in Aberdeen I can think of has. You could go to the Lemon Tree to see a Tribute Act, a puppet show, a jazz band, or a rock gig, that was its biggest strength.

I'd love to see it stay open but in order to do so and not to postpone the inevitable it would need to be run a lot better, proper marketing and management. There would be little point in saving it and running it in the same way. Fish played there a whilwe back and I have to say that the marketing by Drummonds when he played there was a lot better. Not an easy job to sun it I'd imagine, but many other venues of a similar size have shown it can be done.

Cheers

Stuart

[Gemz]

I can tell you now 1500+ and 2.50 per ticket was not the normal fee for venue hire in the lemon tree

you are a mug because you paid that money, you are also a mug for not bargaining. you got major lolled

I can also tell you that it was not 1500 and 2.50...

I think you should read posts before posting gash...

8-)

[stuartmaxwell]

1175 hire? add your engineer costs, marketing, riders etc etc its close enough, and im pretty sure you said you had to give 2.50 per ticket also? apologies if I mis read it somewhere

the real fact is you were rather stupid and paid waay too much for a venue, no reading needed on that one

[Gemz]

Yes your right...i said i got ripped off in my first post!

Soooooooooo...back to topic...

Did i see someone post somethin up about Union Terrace Project? Whats that all about?

Gemz

8-)

[Chris]

Did i see someone post somethin up about Union Terrace Project? Whats that all about?

BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Arts centre bid wins commendation

[la mula]

GUTTED

If kef shuts as well, I'm bailing.

[Wax]

Would like to say that Snafu is looking for experienced bar staff, as well as a bar supervisor so please send CV's to myself: gomes@clubsnafu.com.

Can't promise that we're going to give all the Lemon Tree staff jobs but at least it's an opportunity.

[simon 803]

no solace for members of staff finding themselves jobless but for anyone with a ticket for the nouvelle vague show on february 9th, these will be honoured for the moshulu show on the same date.

[saf-one]

ALOT of people here seem to forget that the Lemon Tree was more than just a fukin Venue!

Bitching and moaning about how badly it was run, rubbish gigs etc. - (Its was on the up as far as I was concerned with a new programmer in place and next years gigs/events looking great.)

What some people dont realise is the place had its hands tied with years of council bureaucracy and bullshit.

Because it was part financed by the council the Lemon Tree had to be part run and manged by the council therefore meet certain rules, regulations and rubbish. From everything to its finance, having to put the bar out to tender, to mangement to health and safety - alot of crap implemented by the council which just wasn't conducive with a profitable business. - Oh and never giving them a 3am licence didnt help.

Also the council expected the Lemon tree to employ the likes of a Youth development officer etc. And run theater workshops for the disabled, youth projects, kids plays, dance shows, music workshops etc etc

ALL OF WHICH LOSE VAST AMOUNTS OF MONEY!!!!

But help Keep kids off the street, enrich disabled peoples lives, help and encourage the youngsters into music and is overall a benefit to the community as a whole.

Then the council turns round and say = "oh why you not making money?!!"

"WTF!!!!!!! Because you have implemented so much BULLSHIT, restrictions, bureaucracy, rules AND we're trying to meet the remit that its impossible to make money!!"

Its a disgrace the council has let it go under. Also the way they spun the initial story about how they offered a loan but the L tree board said no. Making them out to look like the bad guys.

It didnt mention anything of the fact they were making the volunteer board personally viable for the said 250k!

[jcn]

I think that there should be a fundraiser for the LT staff, not for bailing out the Lemon Tree.

[saf-one]

BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Arts centre bid wins commendation

Interesting article.

Hmmmm'

"""The multi-million pounds plans include areas for film screenings and music performances plus workshops and dance and TV studios. """

Dont we have all those things already?!!!

Film Screeneings = in the Massively under used belmont cinema.

music performances plus workshops and dance = Hmm THE FUKIN LEMON TREE, foyer, dance space etc!

TV studios = why the fuk do we need a TV studio. Im sure we have somthing like this too and closed because no bastard used it.

Aberdeen city council are a bunch if idiots . Why ruin a lovely green space in the city centre for facilitys we already have or dont need.

Looks like another denburn health center esk 'modern' monstrosity waiting to happen.

[Lemonade]

If this is actually happening, it's going to be a seismic occurence in Aberdeen, we're already desperately short of decent venues and to lose one of the best is gut-wrenching. I'm actually not joking about the Needles and The Lorelei, I'd put them on in Exodus if needs be, but in the long term the vacuum this is going to create is going to be massive.

.

I think quite the opposite - wouldn't you say that perhaps the reason it's shutting down is due to a upsurge of decent venues in Aberdeen? ie Tunnels and Moshulu? Two similar sized venues capable of attracting the same calibre of bands is bound to have taken a bite out of their profits, plus with Moorings and Drummonds having bands on eveynight, the days of just having Drakes and the Lemon Tree are well in the past. The kinds of gigs 'Shulu has been putting on in the last year or two have been shitting all over the LT.

[Alan Cynic]

There's never been a band I liked playing in Moshulu (too many for my wallet in the Lemon Tree).....but that's an age/taste thing. Moshulu as a place is OK...but if you fall down on that carpet you're there for life!

[Ollie]

they need to sort it out long term. Lemon tree is an important aspect of the arts and music scene

[Bigsby]

The AECC has been getting its act together..the Lemon Tree hasn't.

The council subsidy for the AECC is much, much more than the Lemon Tree ever got.

[Lemonade]

The thing is, the Lemon Tree is a far superior venue to both Moshulu and the Tunnels in almost every respect. In terms of comfort, service, accessibility, sound quality, cleanliness and atmosphere (on both busy and more relaxed nights) it beats both of them comfortably. What they've been lacking is the wherewithall to challenge other venues in terms of volume and quality of gigs due to their situation.

If the Lemon Tree were to be run as a business, along the same lines as Moshulu or The Tunnels, and didn't have to worry about their commitments to community programmes and workshops and experimental theatre and all the other loss-making projects it housed it would give them a serious run for its money.

I still believe that the loss of the Tree, even in its present state, will be a massive loss to the music community. It offers something that neither of the other two venues can, and that's a touch of class. Moshulu and the Tunnels are both grungy and very basic in terms of facilities. That's OK for folk like us, we're used to it, but the Lemon Tree often put on gigs that attracted a different, more, er, (diplomatic hat on) respectable crowd than the usual Aberdeen gig-goers. I can't imagine seeing Chris Hillman, or Bert Jansch, or Odetta, or indeed anyone of that status in the folk/blues/jazz/country sector being staged effectively with the same sense of occasion anywhere in Aberdeen but the Lemon Tree. That's a very big market which is perhaps divergent from the Aberdeen music scene as we see it, but the loss of the LT will be keenly felt in those circles.

Fair point, and well made. I did enjoy my visits to the Lemon Tree but they had become few and far between recently, probably once or twice a year. It was a nice venue but they simply didn't offer many gigs I wanted to go and see, and on the rare occasion they did, I didn't fucken know about it.....

I can see what you mean though, when I think of the ab-music scene I think of grungey venues and rock bands, there's not really anywhere else in town that will put on all the jazz / country etc- though how much of a crowd did they attract? (having never attended I have no idea). The fact thats it's gone tits up so spectacularly doesn't suggest they were making much from those nights either. For all I know, there could be a bunch of old farts on another message board somewhere else complaining that they haven't been putting on decent folk gigs for the last two years.