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INDYREF 2: Electric Boogaloo

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whats changed since last time? you keeping your vote the same or switching sides?

 

this shall be interesting

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I voted 'yes' last time round, although for a long time I was convinced voting 'no' was the right way to go, in fact it was the couple of days prior to the referendum date that swayed me. Of that I am glad.

I will still be a 'yes' unless something drastically changes between now and the date of the second referendum - and I am more convinced than ever. Scotland has its very own, and nuanced political identity which stands aside from the rUK, but cannot ever hope to allow that to flourish whilst ruled from Westminster.

Aside from anything else, it could take actual decades for there to be any true opposition to the Tories which presents a viable alternative, and well...fuck that.

There is a lot about the SNP that I dislike, but once Scotland has its independence its people will begin to form its own political spectrum - I guess crucially the difference is that how individuals vote will actually matter for a change.

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1 hour ago, Adam Easy Wishes said:

I voted 'yes' last time round, although for a long time I was convinced voting 'no' was the right way to go, in fact it was the couple of days prior to the referendum date that swayed me. Of that I am glad.

I will still be a 'yes' unless something drastically changes between now and the date of the second referendum - and I am more convinced than ever. Scotland has its very own, and nuanced political identity which stands aside from the rUK, but cannot ever hope to allow that to flourish whilst ruled from Westminster.

Aside from anything else, it could take actual decades for there to be any true opposition to the Tories which presents a viable alternative, and well...fuck that.

There is a lot about the SNP that I dislike, but once Scotland has its independence its people will begin to form its own political spectrum - I guess crucially the difference is that how individuals vote will actually matter for a change.

All of this. Plus I'm still upset about the rugby score.

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1 hour ago, Adam Easy Wishes said:

I voted 'yes' last time round, although for a long time I was convinced voting 'no' was the right way to go, in fact it was the couple of days prior to the referendum date that swayed me. Of that I am glad.

I will still be a 'yes' unless something drastically changes between now and the date of the second referendum - and I am more convinced than ever. Scotland has its very own, and nuanced political identity which stands aside from the rUK, but cannot ever hope to allow that to flourish whilst ruled from Westminster.

Aside from anything else, it could take actual decades for there to be any true opposition to the Tories which presents a viable alternative, and well...fuck that.

There is a lot about the SNP that I dislike, but once Scotland has its independence its people will begin to form its own political spectrum - I guess crucially the difference is that how individuals vote will actually matter for a change.

Well said. Scotland and even the north of England have never recovered from the Thatcher days. I read recently that Theresa May is just like Maggie, but without the warmth.

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3 hours ago, Adam Easy Wishes said:

I voted 'yes' last time round, although for a long time I was convinced voting 'no' was the right way to go, in fact it was the couple of days prior to the referendum date that swayed me. Of that I am glad.

I will still be a 'yes' unless something drastically changes between now and the date of the second referendum - and I am more convinced than ever. Scotland has its very own, and nuanced political identity which stands aside from the rUK, but cannot ever hope to allow that to flourish whilst ruled from Westminster.

Aside from anything else, it could take actual decades for there to be any true opposition to the Tories which presents a viable alternative, and well...fuck that.

There is a lot about the SNP that I dislike, but once Scotland has its independence its people will begin to form its own political spectrum - I guess crucially the difference is that how individuals vote will actually matter for a change.

This is pretty much my thinking. Was no for a long time because of the uncertainty, voted yes in the end. Was dissapointed we didn't win. Was maybe slightly relived when the oil crashed then incensed about Brexit especially considering how Scotland voted. Not a fan of the SNP but see them as a means to an end.

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9 minutes ago, Gypsum_Fantastic said:

That hasn't changed since last time.

I know, hence the "I'm still" part of the sentence. You fucking rubber of other people's rhubarb.

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I posted this on Facebook yesterday. It's not exactly how I feel, but pretty close to it and a great article. 
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/14/scottish-independence-referendum-snp-vote-brexit

Things that I hope for this potential referendum:
-People against it stop claiming that the last one was a 'decisive no', because there was 10% in it. 
-They can also stop acting as if nothing has changed since the last result and this is just the SNP wanting to hold a referendum every few years until independence is achieved. Anecdotally, my parents who reluctantly voted no in 2014, both said on the day of the EU referendum result that if there was another Scottish referendum, they'd vote yes this time around because they want to remain part of the EU. This time around we have an unelected Prime Minister who is making plans (what plans? lol...) to leave the EU. Bit of a change in circumstances since 2014. 
-Both sides should stop citing poll numbers to further their cause. By 8am today I had already read an article called "Setback for SNP as Scots reject independence in fresh poll." and another, "Support for independence soars to all-time high." It's almost as if we won't find out for sure what the majority of the country was feeling until the date of the result or something?! Also, polling for the last few big elections has turned out to be bollocks. Remember when Cameron and Miliband were neck and neck and Labour were going to have to do a deal with the SNP to form a majority? And when the UK definitely was not going to vote to leave the EU? And Clinton was going to trounce Trump by about 20%?
-People are able to differentiate independence from the SNP. That was the biggest hurdle for me last time and turned me from a "probably not" to a "heck yes". 
-There's more certainty to what the Scottish government and yes campaign want. Other than coasting on the whole WE LOVE THE EU AND HATE THE TORIES thing, which a number of people in Scotland obviously do not, this time around, they need to have bigger and better arguments in favour of an independent Scotland and also give definitive answers about currency, etc. Don't just Salmond it. 
-In fact NO SALMOND INVOLVEMENT WHATSOEVER would be nice. 

Edited by kirsten
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I voted yes last time, if there is a second referendum I'll vote yes again. Mostly to get away from UKIP and the Tories.

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I was on the fence last time. I wanted independence, but the Better Together campaign did put the fear in me. Currency, EU membership, Top Gear. All things we might have lost if we were to vote yes. I was so on the fence, come the day of the referendum, I didn't vote. I sincerely didn't know. If it went tits up either way, I didn't want to have to say "I voted that way, soz pal". Cowardly, I know. But I felt I wasn't educated enough to make the decision. 

A large part of me not voting Yes last time was EU membership. Then we get dragged out anyway. I agree that people should realise that something like being dragged out the EU when Scotland voted remain is definitely indy2-worthy. I was on the fence, then voted remain, all to stay in the EU just to have that lush comfy EU rug pulled right from underneath me. Now I'm sitting on an old, chipped laminate that needs a good sweep and mop but the Tories won't go to Home Bargains to grab me the tools essential to make where we now are more comfortable.

I'm not a fan of SNP. I think they really do tend to neglect us up here. But to be fair, if you live north of Aberdeen next day delivery is at least 2 days away. SNP are like the Royal Mail. But they steal less birthday money. Like others have said, we get independence, then we can get the SNP tae fuck if we so desire as a country. But just because independence has been SNP's long term goal as far as I can remember, doesn't mean a Yes vote is an SNP vote. 

I'll be definitely voting Yes this time around. With the hopes of retaining some sort of relationship with EU. Kind of like when you and your mrs have some really great mutual friends, then your mrs takes a disliking to them and demands you stop talking to them too. Nahh, dump the mrs and hang out with yer cool mates. We need to dump England before it's too late to send EU a cheeky facebook message asking to grab a coffee and a catch up.

UKIP and Tories seem like an unstoppable force down south. And with those silent Tories in Aberdeenshire during the last Scottish election, we need to distance ourselves from the "red white and blue hard brexit" austerity mongers. Scotlands voice is definitely unheard in westminster. We definitely have a very different political stance to rUK, but it is going completely under-represented. I see loads of videos of SNP folk "demolishing tories" but in most of those videos, the place is empty. And folk like Mhari Black seem to be talking to the few brick walls that HAD to turn up that day. Any time SNP put a question to May, she sort of swats it away. No real answer, and most of the time, her and her tory cronies just laugh as if to say "haha check Jock trying to bring his scotch politics down here. this is england, fuck off" then continue on with cutting benefits, privatising the NHS, Trump-ing immigration and storing Nukes, when scotland seems to be very much against all of those.

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5 hours ago, Jaaakkkeee said:

I'll be definitely voting Yes this time around. With the hopes of retaining some sort of relationship with EU. Kind of like when you and your mrs have some really great mutual friends, then your mrs takes a disliking to them and demands you stop talking to them too. Nahh, dump the mrs and hang out with yer cool mates. We need to dump England before it's too late to send EU a cheeky facebook message asking to grab a coffee and a catch up.

I enjoyed this post. You're the Metaphor and Simile Champ. 

But I did read the above quote in the voice of Barry Shitpeas. 

hqdefault.jpg

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How likely is it that another ref will take place? What needs to happen to make it go through?

i see it being a whole different proposition post-brexit and Trump. As well as it being a chance to ideologically distance ourselves, we're seeing that uncertainty shouldn't factor in as much. The country hasn't fallen apart yet. It's being badly run and we're headed for disaster but the transition isn't abrupt. That might be enough to sway the uncertainty mob.

jake nailed it... Scotland is so badly represented in parliament. We're on the fringes, it's almost embarrassing seeing us folks getting behind the likes of mhairi black when she's effectively pissing into the wind.

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7 hours ago, ca_gere said:

How likely is it that another ref will take place? What needs to happen to make it go through?

i see it being a whole different proposition post-brexit and Trump. As well as it being a chance to ideologically distance ourselves, we're seeing that uncertainty shouldn't factor in as much. The country hasn't fallen apart yet. It's being badly run and we're headed for disaster but the transition isn't abrupt. That might be enough to sway the uncertainty mob.

jake nailed it... Scotland is so badly represented in parliament. We're on the fringes, it's almost embarrassing seeing us folks getting behind the likes of mhairi black when she's effectively pissing into the wind.

Mhari Black is dissillusioned already with parliment and is not sure she will run again! Must be pretty frustrating in general but even more so if you are in her situation.

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Looks like May is gonna block a referendum. At least block one with any UK backing, which plays right in to Sturgeon's hands by playing up the "fuck you, Jock" mentality of Westminster. May can't stop an advisory referendum and then a unilateral declaration of independence from Scotland - messy, but an option.

I was yes before and I'm yes now. All that "vow" pish that fucking evaporated, Brexit, etc.

What is MOST frustrating to me right now is this "RESPECT THE REFERENDUM RESULTS" pish. Scotland voted to stay in the EU by 60/40 split. We voted to stay in the UK (with the promise of staying in the EU) with a 55/45 split. A straight-up choice between the UK or the EU is really the only democratic route here. All we'd need is an agreement from the Veto-holding countries to NOT block us from the EU in the event of independence and for the SNP to pick a fucking currency (which is almost definitely gonna be the Euro, which I for one would prefer to the GBP at this point..).

 

xx

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On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 5:43 PM, kirsten said:

I posted this on Facebook yesterday. It's not exactly how I feel, but pretty close to it and a great article. 
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/14/scottish-independence-referendum-snp-vote-brexit

Things that I hope for this potential referendum:
-People against it stop claiming that the last one was a 'decisive no', because there was 10% in it. 
-They can also stop acting as if nothing has changed since the last result and this is just the SNP wanting to hold a referendum every few years until independence is achieved. Anecdotally, my parents who reluctantly voted no in 2014, both said on the day of the EU referendum result that if there was another Scottish referendum, they'd vote yes this time around because they want to remain part of the EU. This time around we have an unelected Prime Minister who is making plans (what plans? lol...) to leave the EU. Bit of a change in circumstances since 2014. 
-Both sides should stop citing poll numbers to further their cause. By 8am today I had already read an article called "Setback for SNP as Scots reject independence in fresh poll." and another, "Support for independence soars to all-time high." It's almost as if we won't find out for sure what the majority of the country was feeling until the date of the result or something?! Also, polling for the last few big elections has turned out to be bollocks. Remember when Cameron and Miliband were neck and neck and Labour were going to have to do a deal with the SNP to form a majority? And when the UK definitely was not going to vote to leave the EU? And Clinton was going to trounce Trump by about 20%?
-People are able to differentiate independence from the SNP. That was the biggest hurdle for me last time and turned me from a "probably not" to a "heck yes". 
-There's more certainty to what the Scottish government and yes campaign want. Other than coasting on the whole WE LOVE THE EU AND HATE THE TORIES thing, which a number of people in Scotland obviously do not, this time around, they need to have bigger and better arguments in favour of an independent Scotland and also give definitive answers about currency, etc. Don't just Salmond it. 
-In fact NO SALMOND INVOLVEMENT WHATSOEVER would be nice. 

Really like that article. It'll be interesting to see how this thread fills up. There was definitely a tendency last time around for Yes votes to vent their frustrations about the SNP's lack of clarity at No voters, rather than criticizing the campaign for fear of damaging it. I kept trying to remind myself that both "Yes voters" and the "fucking cunts" all want the same thing - the best possible future for Scotland

xx 

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I was a fence-sitter and did not vote in the first referendum; I would vote yes in another (assuming it goes ahead and there is no Brexit u-turn). Given what I wrote in parenthesis, doubt I need to elaborate why.

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I voted no the first time round... What it came down to for me was the yes campaign did not do enough to convince me that I should vote yes. Lots of shouting and mud slinging from both sides and this annoyed me as I felt that there were no real answers to any of the big issues. I'm a creature of habit and unless I can really buy into something I'm not gonna get behind it.

fast forward to now and I guess, at present, I'm undecided. I am dismayed that we are facing coming out of the EU and that is down to the rest of the uk. This alone will play a big part in my decision come the vote along with how both sides put across their arguments. 

If Scotland staying in Europe can be negotiated together with a definitive answer on currency then that might sway me  who knows? Certainly not me just now  

 

 

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I voted yes last time, and while I definitely won't be able to vote in a second referendum, I'd likely vote yes again, primarily for the reasons outlined by Adam and Jake above. 

That being said, while the political argument for independence is very compelling, the economic argument most certainly isn't. In fact, the economic case for independence is paper-thin. Our public finances are not in great shape, the oil crash remains a concern, and our GDP is growing at a rate far slower than the rest of Britain. Our budget deficit is over twice as large as Britain's, too. This means either immoral tax hikes or cuts in public spending, which would be a tough pill to swallow after years of Westminster-induced austerity.

Ultimately I think that the political case outweighs the economic case, and this is too great an opportunity to throw away again. I also think that most people would be willing to accept a few years of economic hardship in exchange for independence. Definitely something to ponder, however, unless there's a compelling counter argument that I'm not taking into account?

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Aberdeen City Council have sabotaged plans for any Yes vote in the city.

A vote for Independence is NOT a vote for the SNP and all their policies, this needs to be made clear from the start

Remember: You need to CONVINCE people that Independence is right, convincing them does NOT mean telling they are WRONG, STUPID or a TRAITOR and is in fact more likely to get them to vote the other way.

Social Media is not the be-all-and-end-all - You have to get out and vote, convince the folk who don't use social media, too many folk posting meaningless drivel on Facebook without doing the leg work

Edited by MerryChristmas
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