Is it worth it?

[britheguy]

I've been given a lot of thought lately to the worth vs cost vs need regarding musical gear, or stuff in general.

For example. Over the years I have picked away and got myself some decent gear. I really like buying something new and haggling is part of the experiance I think. Taking something new home and plugging it in for the first time is great.

However, over the years I have come to realise that most of it is over priced. Gibson vs Epi, Fender vs Squire, etc etc. In truth I feel that in a live band situation an epi is as good as a gibson. Okay I can almost hear the grumbles from Les Paul owners from here . But what I mean is, if you get a standard epi Les Paul and maybe ( if you really feel the need) change a pickup to a Bareknuckle, or/and fit decent tuners, then I doubt 99% of the people would notice the sound difference in a live situation.

I can see that someone would 'feel' better with a 59 Les Paul strapped to them or I can even believe they would hear the difference in the confines of their bedroom etc. But live...nah!

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else thinks like this, or if it's just me.

[Stroopy121]

I've been given a lot of thought lately to the worth vs cost vs need regarding musical gear, or stuff in general.

For example. Over the years I have picked away and got myself some decent gear. I really like buying something new and haggling is part of the experiance I think. Taking something new home and plugging it in for the first time is great.

However, over the years I have come to realise that most of it is over priced. Gibson vs Epi, Fender vs Squire, etc etc. In truth I feel that in a live band situation an epi is as good as a gibson. Okay I can almost hear the grumbles from Les Paul owners from here . But what I mean is, if you get a standard epi Les Paul and maybe ( if you really feel the need) change a pickup to a Bareknuckle, or/and fit decent tuners, then I doubt 99% of the people would notice the sound difference in a live situation.

I can see that someone would 'feel' better with a 59 Les Paul strapped to them or I can even believe they would hear the difference in the confines of their bedroom etc. But live...nah!

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else thinks like this, or if it's just me.

There are endless debates on this. Personally, I think that with the "name brand" you get better quality control, and that's about it. I agree that most Epis or Squier's could live up to a Fender or Gibson in a live situation, but if you were to even buy 10 different low end mexican fender guitars, you'd notice a difference in playability from one to the other. Whereas a top end LP, you'll get the same level of quality across the board. If you get lucky with an Epi LP, get one that plays really well and upgrade the hardware/pups as you like, then yeah you can definitely get a guitar for £300 that satisfies you as much as one that cost £3,000 if the label doesn't matter to you.

I suppose it's like saying why buy a brand new Audi when new-ish Skoda in good nick does the same job for a fraction of the price?

/2p.

xx

[Jaaakkkeee]

I suppose it's like saying why buy a brand new Audi when new-ish Skoda in good nick does the same job for a fraction of the price?

/2p.

xx

You can get a Skoda for 2p!?!?!

I was always in the mindset of "i'm not going to go over the score with gear. Squire's fine. A low-end amp by a good brand is fine". But then I recorded with a musicman and I fell in love. And my squire will never feel the same again.

[Stroopy121]

You can get a Skoda for 2p!?!?!

I was always in the mindset of "i'm not going to go over the score with gear. Squire's fine. A low-end amp by a good brand is fine". But then I recorded with a musicman and I fell in love. And my squire will never feel the same again.

You're comparing apples to oranges there, though. If you want a musicman but can't afford the tag, try some musicman replicas. OLP or something similar.

Is it the sound, playability or the 'brand' that you fell in love with?

xx

[fertuiee]

I agree that its overpriced totally, Epiphone / Gibson - Fender / Squire debate is one that will last forever, and one including snobbery and personal preference.

High end musical gear is so over priced and has always been. I own a Gibson Sg Standard and before owned one of the cheaper "sg specials" and i honestly prefered the special, in sound and playablity - hands down, no contest. The sound was EXACTLY the same. The Standard was £1400 and the Special was £400. Given what kind of people buy guitars ( just normal working folks generally speaking ) I think its more than a little unfair.

[Stroopy121]

Oh - side note, I also think you DO need to pay top dollar for top quality amps. Valve amps are unique and can't be (very well) replicated by solid state tech. Solid state can sound good if it's the sound you're after, but you won't get valve tone without valves. And if you get a cheap valve amp, it's very likely to be poor quality.

xx

EDIT: What are people's opinions on almost totally bespoke, biutique guitars? Ritter, Fodera, Custom Shop etc?

[Jaaakkkeee]

I just know that I'll never do this full time. I don't want to waste money on stuff when lower-end stuff will be good enough.

And it was sound/playability that I fell in love with. Although the sound was probably hugely down to the head too.

[Soda Jerk]

My opinion on the matter is: Amps before Guitars. Always. It's amazing going to gigs to see some lad with a Gibson LP that is obviously his pride and joy, but he's belting it through a Marshall MG or a Line6. U mad bro?

A poor guitar can sound fine through a great amp, but you can spend £5,000 on a guitar, and it's going to sound shit through a shit amp all day long. You can tweak a guitar, set it up well, make the right adjustments, replace hardware and get it sounding decent, but a shit amp will always be a shit amp. There's nothing you can do to a Marshall MG/Line6 to make it wail. You're stuck with it.

People play in bands for different reasons. I personally love turning my amp up and it sounding great and getting to play it at earth-shaking volumes. I just couldn't get that from using a shit amp, so I wouldn't get any enjoyment from it.

If you're gigging, buy a good amplifier. Your audience will thank you. Nobody wants shrill, piercing, trebletastic solid state tones piercing their inner-ear.

That said, I've seen some bands make shit amps sound great. The ludicrously talented chap from Shield Your Eyes uses a smashed up no-brand strat with a varying amount of strings through a Valvestate stack, and it sounded ridiculous. But he's got chops, and uses a tone I've never heard anyone use before. So there's exceptions, but they are rare.

[The Milner]

If your talking drum stuff, there is no substitute for good gear, none at all. Cheap cymbal's both sound terrible and break easily, cheap drum kits fall apart quite quickly and again sound shite. The same goes for almost anything on a drum kit, buy it cheap and it will most likely sound crap and not last that long before it breaks. You can buy the worlds best heads and put them on a cheap kit and it will still sound crap.

I spent years buying cheap kit, thrashing it and replacing it in a few months, before i decided to buy good gear. My current cymbals, whilst being very expensive, will last me for life (or they would do if i didnt batter them to shit) cheap ones would never last a life time.

[Diesel]

Brand snobbery is undoubtedly a huge factor when it comes to gear purchase and ownership and I, for one, have fallen into that trap on many occasions.

I agree with most of the posts vis-a-vis Fender/Squier, Gibson/Epi etc and that you do have to spend a bit more for a decent valve amp, though good ones (e.g. Blackstar) can be got for un-silly money.

I'd also extend the discussion to "boutique" pedals, a market that's expanding so rapidly that the entire planet surface will soon be covered with them.

All you seem to need to succeed is...

• a clever name (pref. something risque)
  
• a funky paint job
  
• a plain cardboard box with a basic sticker & hand-written serial number
  
• extortionate price tag
  
• a claim of "true bypass"
  

An endorsement from a respected guitarist won't hurt either.

A few years ago I went on a binge in Guitar Guitar and bought 4 Fulltone pedals - A Fat Boost, an OCD v4, a Deja Vibe and a Clyde Deluxe Wah, grand total? almost £800!

800 soapies for FOUR pedals that frankly, were no better than a good deal of the much cheaper competition? What was I thinking? Fulltone pedals are well built and do sound good, but are as noisy as fuck, which for me, negates the silly price tag.

And on that subject have you ever noticed how folks who are selling a boutique pedal claim it to be the Greatest Pedal Ever Made ™ and that it's breaking their heart to sell it? Aye right! like £80-100 is going to solve all your financial troubles.

[fertuiee]

Oh - side note, I also think you DO need to pay top dollar for top quality amps. Valve amps are unique and can't be (very well) replicated by solid state tech. Solid state can sound good if it's the sound you're after, but you won't get valve tone without valves. And if you get a cheap valve amp, it's very likely to be poor quality.

xx

EDIT: What are people's opinions on almost totally bespoke, biutique guitars? Ritter, Fodera, Custom Shop etc?

Expensive, i'd love a "Electrical guitar company" guitar more than a decent car or probably even food on the table . I know theyre made of different materials.............. £2,000 for a guitar.....jeez

[Lemonade]

My stuff is mostly all entry level. I just can't warrant dropping a grand on a guitar when I can get a perfectly decent one for £300. Even at that level though you notice a difference though. I had a £120 Ibanez Gio that I used for a while and it sounded weedy, endless feedback, interference, wouldn't stay in tune, and I've had a few Squier Tele's that were pretty poor. I noticed a massive difference in clarity and sustain going from that to a 3-400 quid guitar, which is still entry level I suppose, but you expect a half-decent instrument at that price, and it sounded way better. In a live environment I doubt you'd notice much difference between a £300 axe and a 2 grand one, especially if the guitarist is using fuckloads of fuzz and overdrive and other effects, which is what I generally do. It's probably worth getting decent gear for recording though.

[Diesel]

My stuff is mostly all entry level. I just can't warrant dropping a grand on a guitar when I can get a perfectly decent one for £300.

I'm perfectly happy with my £350 Mexican Strat. I've owned hunners of Strats over the years and this current one as good as any I've played - and it's very well made too.

[scottyboy]

Agree with the above regarding amps. As for guitars, with cheaper stuff the problem is plain unfancy build quality, IME. 2 out of the 3 cheaper guitars I've had more or less fell apart and ceased to be usable because of chronic problems with the electronics. If you're just looking for better quality tone and playablility, and you're into Fenders, Gibsons or Ibanez archetypes, then pouring more money into you're guitar isn't a terribly good value way of going about things. Still...

What I have now, while not actually bespoke, I don't think would be easy to get close to with run-of-the-mill guitars, in terms of specs. The next guitar I have in mind will is a bespoke custom, but I'll likely use the "parts" method to keep costs down.

[neepheid]

Speaking specifically regarding Gibson vs. Epiphone and even further specifically about basses, I have owned or at least played the following:

Epiphone EB-0

Epiphone EB-3

Epiphone Les Paul Standard bass

Epiphone Thunderbird Goth

Epiphone Thunderbird Pro

Gibson G-3

Gibson IV

Gibson Victory Artist

Gibson RD Artist

Gibson SG-Z

I can honestly say that out of all of those only the Epiphone Les Paul Standard bass (the one with the carved top and body binding - no longer made) came close to matching the fit, finish, playability and sound of any of my Gibsons (the LP Standard was lovely and I still kinda miss it - had to mod the hell out of the innards, but the neck was grand). Yes, I know I'm not comparing like with like in terms of models, but at least I've played all the models I'm talking about. That's not to say I would completely discount Epis in the future - I still have a niggling desire for the Jack Casady signature - but I also wonder how it would stack up against a Gibson Les Paul Signature (upon which the JC is based). Once I win the lottery, I'll let you know.

On the other hand, I have a beat up Yamaha BB300 which cost me a smidge over £100 and it's great. Single pickup (reverse P) and a really comfortable neck.

You want a tough call? Try G&L vs. G&L Tribute. With exactly the same pickups and mostly the same hardware, the only reason I can see for you to get a USA G&L is if there is no Tribute version of the model you want (the ASAT bass, for instance), you want a different neck profile to the single choice you get with the Tribute, or a finish that isn't available on the Tribute, or a poshy option like matching headstock or body/neck binding. The Tributes are frighteningly good value for money. I own a Tribute L-2000 and have played a USA L-2000 and to be honest I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

[HateEvent]

but if you were to even buy 10 different low end mexican fender guitars, you'd notice a difference in playability from one to the other. Whereas a top end LP, you'll get the same level of quality across the board.

100% incorrect.

My problem is playing one of my 'nice' guitars for a while then going to a cheaper one. Regardless of sound (which for me is 50% of the credentials) it - comparatively - feels shit and is uninspiring, making me want to put it down and revert back to the nicer guitar.

It is all relative. If I had never played custom shop stuff, I may not have disregarded lower end stuff. It isn't about being a brand whore or a snob, it is preference. Unfortunately for me, my preference GENERALLY comes at a greater price. There have been occasions where I've played ultra high end Fenders and they've been no better than old Squiers. Just the nature of the beast...

[FOX]

If you can afford it, and you want it, buy it.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Simply put, it's a mix of personal preference and you get what you pay for. If you like Strats, an American built one is going to last you a lot longer and be more durable than it's squier equivalent. They are just better made.

[Old Gold]

Jan's right. You'd hardly argue that a 300 quid Yamaha acoustic was anywhere near as big a pleasure to play as say a Martin D-40. It's not really different for electrics.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Its more true if you are gigging a guitar as well. A cheap squier isn't going to handle the rigours of live gigging anywhere near as much as the top price Fender equivalent. Electrics will fail, the cheaper tuners etc... will let you down.

[Moose]

Cymbals are worth the money, but I NEVER buy them new. a) new cymbals sound pants, they need a fair bit of wearing in for them to sound good b) I break lots of cymbals and would be renting out my anus on the street if I bought new (or if I didn't tolerate broken cymbals).

Drum kits, I'm not convinced. I bought mt kit in 2006, for £350 (including Paiste 502 cymbals and hardwear). Its a Premier Cabria and I'd be lucky to get £150 for it now, still I prefer it to various higher end kits I've played. I remember playing a Gretsch kit that was worth about £1500 that just sounded rubbish and was horrible to play. I'd have taken my Premier Cabria any day. This is probably a lot down to people buying an expensive drum kit and then not setting it up right or tuning it.

So, good cymbals (Sabian for me) and low-mid range shells. A drummer who plays a £1200 Tama, with zXt cymbals is the equivalent of a guitarist playing an American Fender through an a 100 watt solid state amp.

[Moose]

Plus, any kit I play sounds automatically good.

[britheguy]

Some good comments. I like that one about if you can afford it....Not sure about the acoustic. I do feel that there are big differnences between low end acoustics and something like a Martin. Saying that my fav just now is my Breedlove which was a hell of a lot cheaper than my D-42. Maybe i liek it because it's cheaper...I don't know.

I was talking about a live band situation though regarding the sound. In the confines of your bedroom, or even in a recording studio where it can be seperated from the mix some what I would agree that you can hear the difference.

[Chris]

I guess at the end of the day music is a hobby and people like spending a bit of money on their hobbies to buy nice gear. They then justify it in various ways by saying the build quality is better, it'll last longer, it sounds better or it gives better tone. All of which might be true but really we just like buying nice things as part of our hobby.

A few people seem to have suggested that spending money on a nice amp will mask a poor guitar etc. I've always been of the opinion that tone starts in the fingers. Good technique is cheaper than an expensive amp (but it's still nice to have a good amp).

[The Milner]

Cymbals are worth the money, but I NEVER buy them new. a) new cymbals sound pants, they need a fair bit of wearing in for them to sound good b) I break lots of cymbals and would be renting out my anus on the street if I bought new (or if I didn't tolerate broken cymbals).

Drum kits, I'm not convinced. I bought mt kit in 2006, for £350 (including Paiste 502 cymbals and hardwear). Its a Premier Cabria and I'd be lucky to get £150 for it now, still I prefer it to various higher end kits I've played. I remember playing a Gretsch kit that was worth about £1500 that just sounded rubbish and was horrible to play. I'd have taken my Premier Cabria any day. This is probably a lot down to people buying an expensive drum kit and then not setting it up right or tuning it.

So, good cymbals (Sabian for me) and low-mid range shells. A drummer who plays a £1200 Tama, with zXt cymbals is the equivalent of a guitarist playing an American Fender through an a 100 watt solid state amp.

You like them muddy sounding i take it? I love them being extrememly bright so i try to polish mines as much as possible. Nothing beats the sound of a brand new A custom

Kits wise, i have similar experiences to you, my fav kit to play cost me £200 when i was 16, its a premier Royal kit, white, made back in the early 70's i think, its a raft, toms are every so slightly warped, but when i sit at it, its perfect, plus it has the best sounding kick drum ive had in any kit, i used to record with the kick drum and the toms from my better kits. My current one is a pink DNA kit i got as swap, its a lovely kit, but im not convinced with the sound of the tom drums. I also have a green Pearl kit, its probably the worst drum kit you could ever imagine playing, ive tried giving the fucking thing away and no one will have it.