skuzzlebutt Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Was Paletti the guy who's car burst in to flames on the grid and he was trapped in it?it was pallettis second ever race, he qualified pretty much last. didier pironi's car (on pole) stalled on the grid at the start. by the time palletti crossed the start finish line he was doing 200mph. he crashed into the back of the ferrari and burst into flames. it took over an hour before anybody could get at him. during that time he was alive but suffering from internal bleeding, which proved fatal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzzlebutt Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The worst crash I've ever seen I think is Gilles Villeneuve's - it's awful.After the car somersaults (off camera) it's nose digs into the ground. Villeneueve is thrown from the car at around 100mph, minus his helmet which fell off, and his body hits a fence. he just looks like a crumped heap.Loads of bad crashes here - all fatalities.YouTube - Acidentes Fatais F1This thread has gotten quite harrowing.guys this is just plain wrong. in the past, if i driver died the motor sports press would only print pictures of the driver while he was alive. if the accident was survived then photos could be pretty detailed.what we are doing is watching a recording of a human beings last moments for your our own morbid entertainment. have some respect.i remember seeing some old 70's footage of a team canoeing in some pretty treacherous rapids. things went very wrong. there was guy filming the unfolding events on a crappy cinicamera. in his narration you hear his commentary in which he points out that if his friend (the canoeist) survives they would all watch the movie some other day. if he died the film was going in the river behind him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 guys this is just plain wrong. in the past, if i driver died the motor sports press would only print pictures of the driver while he was alive. if the accident was survived then photos could be pretty detailed.what we are doing is watching a recording of a human beings last moments for your our own morbid entertainment. have some respect.i remember seeing some old 70's footage of a team canoeing in some pretty treacherous rapids. things went very wrong. there was guy filming the unfolding events on a crappy cinicamera. in his narration you hear his commentary in which he points out that if his friend (the canoeist) survives they would all watch the movie some other day. if he died the film was going in the river behind him....I disagree, it's not like we're watching a snuff film or anything. It's relevant to the topic because the crashes illustrate the huge differences in safety between current F1 racing and F1 before the death of Senna. In half the crashes the driver isn't visible and in those which he is, there's nothing particularly degrading to the driver. The most disturbing image is that of Zanardi writhing in panic and agony, which is "detailed" and which he survived.There's loads of important historical images or footage of people being killed, lying dead or about to die (and I would argue that the death of a great sportsman like Senna is certainly an "historical moment") and people should be allowed to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsby Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 To be honest, I haven't watched any of these, I've got no desire to watch anybody dying.I posted the Greg Moore link but that was because I mentioned that I'd already watched that live, didn't have much choice then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The Berger fire at Imola in 1989 is probably the jammiest escape you'll ever see.YouTube - Gerhard Berger crashes heavily at Imola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The Berger fire at Imola in 1989 is probably the jammiest escape you'll ever see.YouTube - Gerhard Berger crashes heavily at ImolaVerstappen's fire was nasty as hell as well.YouTube - Verstappen on fireNot as bad as Berger's in terms of exposure to fire, but could've easily been much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzzlebutt Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I disagree, it's not like we're watching a snuff film or anything. It's relevant to the topic because the crashes illustrate the huge differences in safety between current F1 racing and F1 before the death of Senna. In half the crashes the driver isn't visible and in those which he is, there's nothing particularly degrading to the driver. The most disturbing image is that of Zanardi writhing in panic and agony, which is "detailed" and which he survived.There's loads of important historical images or footage of people being killed, lying dead or about to die (and I would argue that the death of a great sportsman like Senna is certainly an "historical moment") and people should be allowed to see them.there are numerous examples of serious accidents that support your view where the driver has survived. there is also a significant element of luck involved in any accident, but that is neither here nor there. the safety, strength and resiliance of f1 cars of today versus those of yesteryear can be analysed/ illustrated more objectively with controlled destructive testing, than with dodgy footage of fatal accidents.watching/ posting such images is disrespectful in the extreme, and further you have mentioned a perspective i was too polite to: that watching such video is essentially enjoying the "thrill" of a snuff movie. bottom line is, not only is it disrespectful to the driver in question, it is also very disrespectful to the family. god forbid a close relative of anybody you know were to die on camera, and they later discovered the film accumulating hits on you tube.some time ago, after senna's death Hello magazine took an interest in senna. certainly more than at any time during his life. unlike any serious motor sport magazine* that only printed images of him while he was alive while reporting the accident, Hello had no quarms about printing a frame by frame sequence of his last milliseconds of life. Scorge, your views do not put you in good company.as for zinardi, he survived, and obviously loves the sport he competes in, further he was happy to be filmed in front of his car with his prosthetic legs (previous image posting), these were conscious decisions made by him. Villeneuve, Palletti, Pironi, Winklehock, de Angelis and countless others dont have the luxury of that choice. i hope you enjoy the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Fair enough, but I disagree. As far as I'm concerned the proper analogy is to 9/11 footage, JFK/Oswald footage, My Lai photos etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJimF Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So did anyone watch the qualifying early this morning or are you all waiting for the repeat at 1pm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsby Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So did anyone watch the qualifying early this morning or are you all waiting for the repeat at 1pm?Set my dvd player but it didn't work for some reason, couldn't get it on the iplayer either.Just watched it, exciting stuff. I wonder what Honda are making of the Brawn GP team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzzlebutt Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So did anyone watch the qualifying early this morning or are you all waiting for the repeat at 1pm?yep i did. the following are the my most important observations in order of increasing importance1. great job by the brawn team, incredible "p45 to pole position" story2. how the hell did stuart hall of "it's a knockout" fame get a job as an f1 presenter?3. already sensing a little friction between coulthard and jordan as commentators4. them cars is butt ugly - the huge front wing and tiny rear5. great to have f1 without james allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJimF Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I'm looking forward to seeing how Ferrari and McLaren deal with not being the fastest cars on the track, how Hamilton will respond to being at 18th, also if Brawn and Williams will suffer the same fate as Toyota and get shunted to the back of the grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I'm looking forward to seeing how Ferrari and McLaren deal with not being the fastest cars on the track, ... also if Brawn and Williams will suffer the same fate as Toyota and get shunted to the back of the grid.I think the second part of your post answered the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJimF Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I think the second part of your post answered the first.Nope not seeing it. There's no guarantee that Brawn or Williams will be penalised, and as Brawn hold P1 and 2 on the grid i'm pretty sure that the stewards will have looked at those cars more stringently than any of the others.Also there is Vettel in the Red Bull and Kubica in the BMW in front of the Ferrari's on the grid. Add the fact that the Ferrari's are the first two cars on the grid using the Kers system on their car, which adds weight and disrupts the balance of the car, which is why Kubica doesn't have the system on his car but Heidfield does.There are a lot of unknown variables in this first race, and unless someone really screws up or the safety car makes a few appearances, this race has the potential to cause a lot of upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsby Posted March 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 As I understand it the Toyotas were punished for having too much flex in their rear wing, totally separate issue to the rear diffuser controversy surrounding the Brawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I can't wait to see how Hamilton does without the (arguably) best cars for once. I don't like him, he comes accross as an aragant twat. However if he still wins or does pretty well with a lesser car I can at least respect his ability... even if he is still a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Correct.Cheeky each way on Rubens to win tomorrow... looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran_imray Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I'm a McLaren fan (purely because when I started watching F1 Coulthard was there and being a kid I was like "Yeah!! He's Scottish! I like them!') but I'm glad these random "lesser" teams are dominating the top 10 on the grid for tomorrow. Hopefully it will continue and we will have a very tight season. Though I get the feeling that, once all the teams adapt to the new regulations, McLaren and Ferrari will go about schooling everyone with their mega-budgets, as per the last 2 seasons. What's the controversy surrounding the rear diffuser on the Brawns though? Is it illegal or is there's just beyond the legal specs? I've nae really payed much attention to the rule changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Wirelessly posted (SonyEricssonK770i/R8BC Browser/NetFront/3.3 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)Brilliant drive from Jenson. Didn't see him make one single error. Vettel and Kubica must be spewing! Good race, lots of close racing and a fair few incidents. Here's hoping for a good 2009 season and a few more Button wins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Fuck Button(s?). Rubens is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzzlebutt Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 Fuck Button(s?). Rubens is king.i'd sooner see rubens beat button, not because i have anything against button, just that the english press will go into their usual jingoism mode and after a while button will be taken in by it, then things will start not working out and the same press that adored him will spit him out and wipe him off the bottom of their shoes like so much dog shit (damon hill being a grand example).rubens however fucked up big time and was very lucky to get second. not to say that rubens might not beat him in any of the next three or so races where brawn will do rather well - until the whole defuser advantage is wiped out one way or another. button was the better driver and deserved to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_Victory Posted March 29, 2009 Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 its a pitty hamilton got thirdactually its more of a pitty he didnt crash, waste of two hours prayingnah good race tho looking forward to the rest of the season, and yeh ryan hopefully more jenson wins, its about time he got a good go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Shears Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Lewis is the world champion and an excellent driver...i cannot understand why people in this country are anti him so much. so he is a little on the arrogant side... but christ if you are the best in your field in all the ranks you do from the age of 9 its pretty justified....and it is to be expected i think. (i know i would be). The drive from him yesterday was amazing and shows how good he is. He was nailing it through the field at the start and to get a podium from 18th is TOP work (even though he never got on there cause of "Fisi" cheating after the last safety car)....but anyway.... when this diffuser scenario gets sorted out, he will be back where he belongs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Going back to those videos, I posted them to show the difference in the strength and safety of today's cars against the old F1 cars, and how much more dangerous the sport was back then (when any big crash had a pretty high chance of fatality or serious injury). I did consider before posting them that it may be a bit morbid and inappropriate and in retrospect it probably was. Apologies for any offence / distress. Chris, you can delete the links if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Shears Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Lewis is the world champion and an excellent driver...i cannot understand why people in this country are anti him so much. so he is a little on the arrogant side... but christ if you are the best in your field in all the ranks you do from the age of 9 its pretty justified....and it is to be expected i think. (i know i would be). The drive from him yesterday was amazing and shows how good he is. He was nailing it through the field at the start and to get a podium from 18th is TOP work (even though he never got on there cause of "Fisi" cheating after the last safety car)....but anyway.... when this diffuser scenario gets sorted out, he will be back where he belongs!Dunno why i put "Fisi" btw...... when it was Glock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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