Words of encouragement?

[Kaizen]

And how much would you suggest a local support should be payed? 50 quid for an out of town headliner yeah? so... a tenner for support? 2 per member? wouldnt buy you a sprite mate. Iv been in a few bands before and personally, im happy to just play. I wouldnt expect to be payed if i was first on. Especially if im from the same city... Of course if i was travelling etc id ask for some money towards travelling costs, but i would never ask for a guarentee or anything. However, if the promoter decided to give us something afterwards, im not gonna say no though... Could be an edinburgh thing! Hard to find a venue for less than 400 here which, in turn, majorly cuts into the promoters takings, and thus, means they have less to give the bands. How much are venues to hire up in Aberdeen?

[Kieran_imray]

As far as I'm aware, and I may be wrong, Cafe Drummonds is free (was when I put on a charity gig a couple of years ago anyway), The Tunnels is 50 quid and Moshulu is 800. Not sure if they are correct and I haven't got a clue what other places charge. imo, if a out of town band is headlining (assuming they aren't signed/relatively big) then the local support bands should definitely be payed, as it is they who will pull most of the crowd through the door. That's what I've found when we have supported bands who are classed as national acts but don't have a record deal.

[framheim]

And how much would you suggest a local support should be payed? 50 quid for an out of town headliner yeah? so... a tenner for support? 2 per member? wouldnt buy you a sprite mate. Iv been in a few bands before and personally, im happy to just play. I wouldnt expect to be payed if i was first on. Especially if im from the same city... Of course if i was travelling etc id ask for some money towards travelling costs, but i would never ask for a guarentee or anything. However, if the promoter decided to give us something afterwards, im not gonna say no though... Could be an edinburgh thing! Hard to find a venue for less than 400 here which, in turn, majorly cuts into the promoters takings, and thus, means they have less to give the bands. How much are venues to hire up in Aberdeen?

most headliners get more than 50 if they're from out of town. 50 would be an ideal amount for a local support to get and i was always happy getting that in the bands i've been in.

i know it's not always possible to get this but seriously you should always get paid for playing. it costs money to be in a band and it's only fair to recoup some of this through gigs. you are not lucky to be offered a gig and it's not a privelage to play for promoters, you've worked hard to write and arrange your set while spending a not inconsiderable amount on practice space and equipment. bands earn their place on a bill and deserve to paid for that.

the submissive attitude that your inclining towards is the reason pay to play is so successful in the central belt yet thankfully it's never taken hold up here because the bands won't have it.

[WoodyRATM]

And how much would you suggest a local support should be payed? 50 quid for an out of town headliner yeah? so... a tenner for support? 2 per member? wouldnt buy you a sprite mate. Iv been in a few bands before and personally, im happy to just play. I wouldnt expect to be payed if i was first on. Especially if im from the same city... Of course if i was travelling etc id ask for some money towards travelling costs, but i would never ask for a guarentee or anything. However, if the promoter decided to give us something afterwards, im not gonna say no though... Could be an edinburgh thing! Hard to find a venue for less than 400 here which, in turn, majorly cuts into the promoters takings, and thus, means they have less to give the bands. How much are venues to hire up in Aberdeen?

Think tunnels is like 60 quid through the week...

I agree all bands should be paid something. Even if it is like 20 quid - better than a kick in the teeth.

[Chris]

most headliners get more than 50 if they're from out of town. 50 would be an ideal amount for a local support to get and i was always happy getting that in the bands i've been in.

i know it's not always possible to get this but seriously you should always get paid for playing. it costs money to be in a band and it's only fair to recoup some of this through gigs. you are not lucky to be offered a gig and it's not a privelage to play for promoters, you've worked hard to write and arrange your set while spending a not inconsiderable amount on practice space and equipment. bands earn their place on a bill and deserve to paid for that.

the submissive attitude that your inclining towards is the reason pay to play is so successful in the central belt yet thankfully it's never taken hold up here because the bands won't have it.

You're all talking about two different things. Dave, you're talking about how much local bands get paid. They're all talking about how much they get payed. Completely different.

[framheim]

You're all talking about two different things. Dave, you're talking about how much local bands get paid. They're all talking about how much they get payed. Completely different.

bored are you?

[Chris]

Possibly.

[Guest treader.]

who cares about money? geez a fucking tune.

[Kaizen]

i dont get it... Your all talking as if being in a band is such a bloody chore. Of course it costs money... but so do most hobbies! I scuba dive, i had to pay over 300 for my license and i have to pay about 50 for 2 days diving every time i do it. that gets me about 4 or 5 dives. Its expencive but its fun and i love doing it, so i pay it anyway. I love playing in bands, so i pay for practice rooms and stuff. Fair enough, if someone is going to offer me money, then im glad to take it, but im not gonna say "Hey you! i worked my ass off doing a gruelling 30 minute set for you! Give me lots of money now!" cos its not a gruelling 30 minute set... its 30 minutes of good fun (hopefully) entertaining people and making people feel good. I mean, if i can make a career out of running around on a stage once a day and having the time of my life, i will, but its not exactly hard work... And if you dont enjoy performing, or writing music, or practicing with your mates, You've probably picked the wrong passtime...

[WoodyRATM]

i dont get it... Your all talking as if being in a band is such a bloody chore. Of course it costs money... but so do most hobbies! I scuba dive, i had to pay over 300 for my license and i have to pay about 50 for 2 days diving every time i do it. that gets me about 4 or 5 dives. Its expencive but its fun and i love doing it, so i pay it anyway. I love playing in bands, so i pay for practice rooms and stuff. Fair enough, if someone is going to offer me money, then im glad to take it, but im not gonna say "Hey you! i worked my ass off doing a gruelling 30 minute set for you! Give me lots of money now!" cos its not a gruelling 30 minute set... its 30 minutes of good fun (hopefully) entertaining people and making people feel good. I mean, if i can make a career out of running around on a stage once a day and having the time of my life, i will, but its not exactly hard work... And if you dont enjoy performing, or writing music, or practicing with your mates, You've probably picked the wrong passtime...

in my opinion, i consider a band being offered a gig the same sorta thing as a performer being hired for a function, and they expect paid, so why shouldnt a band?

I do enjoy gigging majorly, but its sorta like a job in my eyes (note i didnt use the word chore - because i dont consider it that) - i arrive on time, do what im being paid to do (play and entertain) then head off.

But i only expect like 20-30 quid for a decent turn out (which IMO isint much)

Just my thoughts.

[Chris]

in my opinion, i consider a band being offered a gig the same sorta thing as a performer being hired for a function, and they expect paid, so why shouldnt a band?

I do enjoy gigging majorly, but its sorta like a job in my eyes (note i didnt use the word chore - because i dont consider it that) - i arrive on time, do what im being paid to do (play and entertain) then head off.

But i only expect like 20-30 quid for a decent turn out (which IMO isint much)

Just my thoughts.

This is exactly right.

[Guest funkeebassman]

Because he's a clown.

and your a daft lurch that sells telly lol:up:

[Guest funkeebassman]

Given the current arguments going on in this thread... What in hell made you think it would be a good idea to post that... o_O

cause your petty litty arguments don't hold water.

[Kieran_imray]

I wouldn't say I expect to be rewarded with money for every gig I play, and I sure as hell don't count music as a chore in any way shape or form. But if one band gets money why shouldn't any other bands that play with them? Even if its a nominal fee of 20 quid, it's nice to have slight financial reward considering the amount of money I have spent on this hobby.

[Guest funkeebassman]

I wouldn't say I expect to be rewarded with money for every gig I play, and I sure as hell don't count music as a chore in any way shape or form. But if one band gets money why shouldn't any other bands that play with them? Even if its a nominal fee of 20 quid, it's nice to have slight financial reward considering the amount of money I have spent on this hobby.

yes Mr K,you tell em!

[davewarden]

You've probably picked the wrong passtime...

Jog on mate!,you are havering bollocks.I can see your enthusiasm, but your "a gigs a gig" attitude is why alot of bands get fucked over by shit promoters in it for a quick buck and the only person who wins his the dude who leaves half way through the gig laughing and counting up all the door money.You might have played the best gig ever in front of all your mates but what help does that do anyone?.

So far doing shows I think Ive only never paid bands once or twice, each occasion hated doing so as I remember times when my old band used to come up here and never got any cash.

[unbroken]

as a p/t "promoter", i have made losses 3 times so that all bands could be paid what they wanted.

[Kaizen]

But if one band gets money why shouldn't any other bands that play with them?

Because one band is better than the others... This is why they would (usually) be headlining... Thats like saying how come one footballer get payed more than another?

I dunno, maybe i just have a different mentality than you guys (not that yours is wrong or that), but in my eyes, If im first on a bill, Ill play the gig, get my bands name out a little, have a bit of fun, meet some new people, get into the gig to see some (hopefully) good bands playing after me for free, maybe get a drink or 2 off some mates for playing a good show. This all happens because the promoter decided to put me on the bill and in return, i bring in a few more people and the promoter makes a bit more money. To me that makes it mutual. Im having a great time, Mr/Mrs Promoter gets a wee bit extra cash and my band become slightly better known. Sooner or later, my band will become well enough known to play gigs outside of their home town and then i would maybe ask for a little money to help cover travelling costs etc, but as far as im concerned, The promoter is supplying me with a good night, im supplying him/her with some extra income and that makes it a mutual night between us.

In other words:

(The value of Good times + Free drinks from friends + Promotion of band + Entertaining people + New friends) - Band costs >= The value of Promoters extra income due to my band playing.

Thats just the way i see it. Any money gained in such a situation is simply bonus.

[davidm]

On Saturday, I had to hire a PA system for 85, a guitar amp for 20 as well as the East Neuk for 80. I made about 100 on the door with folk coming in. I got my 50 back from the Neuk at the end of the gig. This meant that by the time all the money on the door hand been counted up including the 50 back (which was really my own money being returned), I was left with -35. I paid Secta Rouge 40 and Ablach 20, with none for Wifebeater or Pryon, I felt fucking shit about this.

Although bear in mind, everyone in Pryon had disappeared by the time Secta Rouge came on and so I couldn't give them any money.

This left me down 45 personally. It was worth all the hassle in putting on the gig just to see Rouge again, who are beyond the use of superlatives; I can't believe how much I love them.

At the end of the day, I should have been able to give money to Pryon and Wifebeater, but that would have left me with very little money to actually get by until I get paid on Thursday. I paid Ablach because they were willing to play last to a slightly smaller crowd after a few people had disappeared.

I'm not quite sure what point I'm trying to make here, but oh well.

[davidm]

*prepares self for the barrage of abuse that Kaizen is about to receive*

[Lemonade]

cause your petty litty arguments don't hold water.

and your a daft lurch that sells telly lol:up:

you are all talking bollox,who gives a damn about a crappy little gig in Aberdeen,with crappy noisy bands1:up:

[Kaizen]

You might have played the best gig ever in front of all your mates but what help does that do anyone?

It helps me... cos i've had a good time for free. Forget it. It makes sense to me... I love playing, and for me thats well worth the amount i used to pay on practice rooms every week. If you cant understand that, then you arnt going to, regardless of what i say, so just drop it.

[Chris]

Because one band is better than the others... This is why they would (usually) be headlining... Thats like saying how come one footballer get payed more than another?

I dunno, maybe i just have a different mentality than you guys (not that yours is wrong or that), but in my eyes, If im first on a bill, Ill play the gig, get my bands name out a little, have a bit of fun, meet some new people, get into the gig to see some (hopefully) good bands playing after me for free, maybe get a drink or 2 off some mates for playing a good show. This all happens because the promoter decided to put me on the bill and in return, i bring in a few more people and the promoter makes a bit more money. To me that makes it mutual. Im having a great time, Mr/Mrs Promoter gets a wee bit extra cash and my band become slightly better known. Sooner or later, my band will become well enough known to play gigs outside of their home town and then i would maybe ask for a little money to help cover travelling costs etc, but as far as im concerned, The promoter is supplying me with a good night, im supplying him/her with some extra income and that makes it a mutual night between us.

In other words:

(The value of Good times + Free drinks from friends + Promotion of band + Entertaining people + New friends) - Band costs >= The value of Promoters extra income due to my band playing.

Thats just the way i see it. Any money gained in such a situation is simply bonus.

It's exactly this attitude that enables shitty practices like pay to play to manifest and thrive.

Young, naive bands are being ripped off because they don't know any better and they think they're getting a good deal. The reality is they're getting screwed. You're getting screwed.

[unbroken]

Because one band is better than the others... This is why they would (usually) be headlining...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Be quiet.

so because "one band is better than the others, they deserve to be paid whilst the others get fuck all? aye ok. a promoters job is to promote a gig, if its not promoted properly and no one shows up, then the promoter should have money ready to pay the bands regardless. That is called risk taking and having your ass covered, all part of being a good promoter.

[Kaizen]

This left me down 45 personally. It was worth all the hassle in putting on the gig just to see Rouge again, who are beyond the use of superlatives; I can't believe how much I love them.

See thats more like it. Music is worth more than money to me and its nice to see that someone would go to so much bother and spend a lot of money simply in order to see a band they love. And im sure they guys would understand that you cant pay them so long as they havnt lost any money by playing that night.

P.S I wasnt aware i was particularly abusive... haha!