Guest funkeebassman Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 YUM YUM YUM:love: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 It's exactly this attitude that enables shitty practices like pay to play to manifest and thrive. Young, naive bands are being ripped off because they don't know any better and they think they're getting a good deal. The reality is they're getting screwed. You're getting screwed.Naw im not. I dont do pay to play. I dont think its right to ask bands to pay to play. That could defy my formula you see =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 See thats more like it. Music is worth more than money to me and its nice to see that someone would go to so much bother and spend a lot of money simply in order to see a band they love. And im sure they guys would understand that you cant pay them so long as they havnt lost any money by playing that night.P.S I wasnt aware i was particularly abusive... haha!aye but this was an exception. in an ideal world this wouldn't happen at all and i'm sure no one who's a realistic expects all bands to get paid every single time but 9 out of 10 times they should. most of the time there's no difference in quality between a headliner and a local support so why shouldn't the local band get some money? obviously travelling bands need a bit more to cover their costs and i don't think anyone's denying that. we all do it for the love of doing it but getting enough money to pay for some drinks or some decent recording time is the pay off for the hard work we put in to our hobby. all i want from being in a band is some good times and a cd with our tunes on it so i can bore my kids when i'm older Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran_imray Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Because one band is better than the others... This is why they would (usually) be headlining... Thats like saying how come one footballer get payed more than another?I never said that supporting bands should get payed the same or more than headliners, but surely they should get something for their services and music. Hence why I mentioned the 20 quid nominal fee, obviously that would be less than the headliners but it's something, not much, but I appreciate it all the same. I like to get something from gigs, be it exposure or getting to play/meet a band I'm a fan of. More often than not, neither of these are really possible in this city on a regular basis, thus a wee bit of money is nice for our several weeks/months of writing and practicing. To me it's far from "a 30 minute set" that we are getting payed for, as that set wouldn't exist without lots of rehearsal and practice on one's own instrument. Also, I tend to have to sacrifice work to play gigs as I work 5 nights a week, that means I can lose 40 quid a month to play a gig and probably piss off my manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 I totally agree. But its not the most important thing and im not gonna go mad at a promoter for not paying me so long as iv not lost any money on the gig. As for difference in quality... Thats not how it goes in edinburgh =P Then again... there is a bit of a quality band drought in Edinburgh, so most of our headliners are from elsewhere.If i had a full touring career and 15 albums on my back but only ever made just enough money to live off my whole life, I would be happy, because i would have had the best job on earth. I think, at the level of most local bands, We should be aiming at making our music as good as possible, playing as often as possible, getting our names out and having a bloody great time while we are at it. So long as im not losing out, money comes second to those things to me. If anyone disagrees (which im sure they will), then they are fee to and they will have their own motives for doing so (regardless of whether i understand them or not). However, on the other side of the coin, this is my opinion and I'm not stupid enough to get hassled around by usless promoters taking me for a ride, so i dont understand why any of you should have a problem with me having my opinion.P.S this was agreeing with Daveofficer by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 I never said that supporting bands should get payed the same or more than headliners, but surely they should get something for their services and music. Hence why I mentioned the 20 quid nominal fee, obviously that would be less than the headliners but it's something, not much, but I appreciate it all the same. I like to get something from gigs, be it exposure or getting to play/meet a band I'm a fan of. More often than not, neither of these are really possible in this city on a regular basis, thus a wee bit of money is nice for our several weeks/months of writing and practicing. To me it's far from "a 30 minute set" that we are getting payed for, as that set wouldn't exist without lots of rehearsal and practice on one's own instrument. Also, I tend to have to sacrifice work to play gigs as I work 5 nights a week, that means I can lose 40 quid a month to play a gig and probably piss off my manager. Fair enough if thats how you feel, and if you are missing work to play then obviously, you are losing out because of the gig. As for me, im losing nothing by playing the gig and im getting to do what i love doing. I personally enjoy my rehearsal and practice time, so i dont see why i should expect money for that. And as far as supplying a service goes, to me, the promoter is paying me in exposure for my band and good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 so lets say that you are in a relatively good band with a relatively good following, a promoter asks you to play a show for them, knowing that you can pull a good crowd, 30 people show up, possibly the same 30 people who would have come had it been you that was "headlining". The promoter pays the headliners their fee, and pays none of the other bands, yet he goes home with an extra bit of cash. You think thats fair?its happened to me numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Depends. Had the promoter told the bands they would get payed, no thats not fair. However, I realise that these things happen, but then these promoters soon enough get a bad name and no one will use them.Assuming this was a generally good promoter we are talkiing about, if its wrong for him to no pay some bands in order to take some money home, at what point does it become ok for the promoter to profit? Bearing in mind, they have had to put as much, if not more, work (usually a lot less fun work) into the whole gig as the bands have. Im not a promoter myself, but i think it is just as important for the promoter to make money as it is for the bands. Taking into account that most promoters enjoy promoting much less than most bands enjoy playing, If a promoter doesnt make money, he/she is much more likely to quit than a band is. Promoters quit, scene dies. Value your promoters people! They keep the whole thing alive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 but i think it is just as important for the promoter to make money as it is for the bands.you should have left it there.Once all bands are paid and everyone is happy, promoter has covered costs, then he gets whats left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 From my experience, everything i said is true. I disagree with you. I think any promises of payment should be fulfilled, and if there is any money left over, a decent promoter would split it between the other bands AND himself. However i realise there are promoters out there who dont work like this. If you dont like how they work, dont use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 From my experienceYou're 17 and in other threads you've said how you've struggled to get into bands. I think you're arguing against experience here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 As a guitarist iv struggled. As a vocalist iv been in a fair few for my age and played a fair few gigs for my age too through all sorts of promoters and to all sorts of crowds (from 8 people to 600 people). Believe it or not, just cos im 17 it doesnt make me any worse off than you lot. Im not saying im the most experienced on this forum cos im not by a long shot, but i have had enough experience to know how stuff works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gold Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 From my experience, everything i said is true. I disagree with you. I think any promises of payment should be fulfilled, and if there is any money left over, a decent promoter would split it between the other bands AND himself. However i realise there are promoters out there who dont work like this. If you dont like how they work, dont use them.State the obvious of the year award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 I know, but some people seem to complain the whole time about rubbish promoters. I was deliberately stating the obvious in order to point out that people are talking as if they have not noticed the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 My call on things:If you're a DIY/low level independent promoter you are pretty much 100% in it for the passion and there is no money in it with the economic climate the way it is at the moment: you are up against it with regards to bands (who you would usually like to pay what they merit), you are up against punters (who have been used to the inflation-devoid entry tax of 3-4 pounds and would be turned off by paying more, likely prefering to pay the inflation-bursting prices for festivals, big concerts etc) and you are up against the venues (who have to put the hire fees up as their own sundry expenses go up). You can work your bollocks off and not get rewarded financially: if there is actually ANY promoter of this kind breaking even or better in Aberdeen, then hold your hand up. Because we should probably have you stuffed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 I totally agree. But its not the most important thing and im not gonna go mad at a promoter for not paying me so long as iv not lost any money on the gig. As for difference in quality... Thats not how it goes in edinburgh =P Then again... there is a bit of a quality band drought in Edinburgh, so most of our headliners are from elsewhere.If i had a full touring career and 15 albums on my back but only ever made just enough money to live off my whole life, I would be happy, because i would have had the best job on earth. I think, at the level of most local bands, We should be aiming at making our music as good as possible, playing as often as possible, getting our names out and having a bloody great time while we are at it. So long as im not losing out, money comes second to those things to me. If anyone disagrees (which im sure they will), then they are fee to and they will have their own motives for doing so (regardless of whether i understand them or not). However, on the other side of the coin, this is my opinion and I'm not stupid enough to get hassled around by usless promoters taking me for a ride, so i dont understand why any of you should have a problem with me having my opinion.P.S this was agreeing with Daveofficer by the way...edinburgh has some ace bands. and it's paid not payed people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf.biker Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 just want to head back a bit to the stuff about the "deenfest style" bands! it is absolute bollocks about the bands sounding the same...even to the untrained ear. It wasnt a hardcore show or a metal show or an indie show or whatever. It was a modern music show and thats it. There was a huge variety of styles on that bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootray Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 just want to head back a bit to the stuff about the "deenfest style" bands! it is absolute bollocks about the bands sounding the same...even to the untrained ear. It wasnt a hardcore show or a metal show or an indie show or whatever. It was a modern music show and thats it. There was a huge variety of styles on that bill.And you are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf.biker Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 does it matter?Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gold Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 just want to head back a bit to the stuff about the "deenfest style" bands! it is absolute bollocks about the bands sounding the same...even to the untrained ear. It wasnt a hardcore show or a metal show or an indie show or whatever. It was a modern music show and thats it. There was a huge variety of styles on that bill.Even Icelandic Death-jazz-pop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf.biker Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Even Icelandic Death-jazz-pop?if that is a genre then we are in trouble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 edinburgh has some ace bands. and it's paid not payed people.Name some... I can think of... 2. 3 if you include fife n stuff. And none of them ever even play here! In fact! One even calls themself a "glasgow band" in order to get more gigs in glasgow because they know that nothing happens here. Trust me on this one, i live here. It wasnt so bad 2-3 years ago, but now the whole scene is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Name some... I can think of... 2. 3 if you include fife n stuff. And none of them ever even play here! In fact! One even calls themself a "glasgow band" in order to get more gigs in glasgow because they know that nothing happens here. Trust me on this one, i live here. It wasnt so bad 2-3 years ago, but now the whole scene is dead.eagleowl, meursault and broken records immediately spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 eagleowl, meursault and broken records immediately spring to mind.I've got a feeling that we're looking at a bit of a strokes-and-horses-for-folks-and-courses scenario here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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