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Copyrights and downloading etc


la mula
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What are your thoughts on the matter?

On one hand there's the view that the greedy labels are trying to brainwash everyone and release bland manufactured music to appeal to most people. If nobody bought music then these labels wouldn't make money, so less of this music would be made, and IMO that would be better.

Then there's the issue that I mightn't have heard of most of the music I like if there hadn't been someone to spread the word about it, and also that some music costs a lot of money to produce.

Anyways, I'm fighting for the revolution by sitting on my ass downloading anything that takes my fancy.

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What revolution are you fighting for exactly?

Regardless of how much a major label is charging etc (too much), by downloading, and I presume you mean free and illegal, then the artist is, ultimately, the one that loses. They get little enough of a percentage per sale from the labels (especially on internet downloads) as it is and any illegal download will simply reduce their income. The more control the artist has over their material, and this is becoming far easier as time moves on, the less of a monopoly the major labels will have on the market.

Royalties on sales and performance etc, regardless of the record (corporate) company 'are' an artists bread and butter...

Just to clarify a point: when I say free I mean the illegal variety and not free by choice of the artist, which I will and happily download...

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What revolution are you fighting for exactly?

Regardless of how much a major label is charging etc (too much), by downloading, and I presume you mean free and illegal, then the artist is, ultimately, the one that loses. They get little enough of a percentage per sale from the labels (especially on internet downloads) as it is and any illegal download will simply reduce their income. The more control the artist has over their material, and this is becoming far easier as time moves on, the less of a monopoly the major labels will have on the market.

Royalties on sales and performance etc, regardless of the record (corporate) company 'are' an artists bread and butter...

Just to clarify a point: when I say free I mean the illegal variety and not free by choice of the artist, which I will and happily download...

Exactly. It's always a simplistic "fuck the corporate, profiteering giant arguement" that some people think gives them the right to effectively rob musicians of their incomes.

Most labels (like mine) are small indie outfits trying to give artists an outlet for their music. We structure things to give our acts at least 50% of retail and we absorb the cost of recording, CD manufacture, royalty collection and digital aggregation. Hardly profiteering.

I guess we just deserve to be ripped off.

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What are your thoughts on the matter?

On one hand there's the view that the greedy labels are trying to brainwash everyone and release bland manufactured music to appeal to most people. If nobody bought music then these labels wouldn't make money, so less of this music would be made, and IMO that would be better.

Then there's the issue that I mightn't have heard of most of the music I like if there hadn't been someone to spread the word about it, and also that some music costs a lot of money to produce.

Anyways, I'm fighting for the revolution by sitting on my ass downloading anything that takes my fancy.

It'd be interesting to see what you've been downloading recently, and see if what you're downloading is released by 'greedy labels' - care to share?

At the end of the day, when you're downloading something that you can afford to buy (I'm presuming here), constantly, it's certainly not a positive move towards supporting the people who make the music.

That said, I'll download a digital copy of an album if I have it on vinyl, so that I can listen to it on my iPod/laptop.

The major label's attitude to downloading (that one downloaded album equates to one lost sale) is completely null, but the opposite end of the spectrum (fuck everyone involved with making music! THEY owe ME! I'm a FAN!) bothers me just as much, probably even more, given that these are the people that determine the longevity of artists.

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i think its interesting that the majority of underground acts dont make fuck all of their album sales and tend to only make profit on their performances/merchandise. Ive found out about many bands you wouldnt find in HMV/Virgin/(insert major music chain here) through using the internet to get hold of their material, and i will journey to glasgow or whatever to go and see them and probably buy a t-shirt/hoodie as well, so in a way illegal downloading helps these less well-known artists find more customers. It does suck that the actual product of their music has relatively little value to an artists income, and that they need to constantly gig to sell merchandise etc and get some money, but at least the internet has flattened the playing field in terms of what bands the public can easily hear about.

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i think its interesting that the majority of underground acts dont make fuck all of their album sales and tend to only make profit on their performances/merchandise. Ive found out about many bands you wouldnt find in HMV/Virgin/(insert major music chain here) through using the internet to get hold of their material, and i will journey to glasgow or whatever to go and see them and probably buy a t-shirt/hoodie as well, so in a way illegal downloading helps these less well-known artists find more customers. It does suck that the actual product of their music has relatively little value to an artists income, and that they need to constantly gig to sell merchandise etc and get some money, but at least the internet has flattened the playing field in terms of what bands the public can easily hear about.

I partly agree with you, but it's quite annoying when you get people who say "I download all my music but I'll go see bands live" - it shouldn't be an either/or. Especially when the number of bands they probably go to see is greatly outnumbered by the amount of albums they've downloaded. And, whilst I understand that not everyone can afford to buy music, I don't really think anyone can play that card when they're paying for a broadband connection, own a computer, go out drinking, etc. People just download music because it's there and it's easy - I'm sure they'd feel entirely different if they could get away with stealing cds from shops.

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yeah i understand what your saying, but to be fair the artists im listening to dont even get their albums sold in major chain stores and you have to go to the extra effort of ordering what you want, if they can even get it for you. If they reduced the price of CD's to something more reasonable and the record labels stopped taking such a high %age of a bands earnings then the effect of illegal DLing could be lessened. If the record industry wants to keep up its profits then its gona have to lower prices in general to bring the DLing population back to buying CD's.

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yeah i understand what your saying, but to be fair the artists im listening to dont even get their albums sold in major chain stores and you have to go to the extra effort of ordering what you want, if they can even get it for you. If they reduced the price of CD's to something more reasonable and the record labels stopped taking such a high %age of a bands earnings then the effect of illegal DLing could be lessened.

If you wanted to support bands even more you could order them direct from them/their labels online. Less effort than going into HMV or whoever and ordering it, cheaper too.

If people are going to address this issue fairly, then they need to stop clumping in "the record labels" as one entity - I know of loads of labels who go out of their way - including financially - to do the best for 'their' bands. They're not all fat men in suits chomping on cigars.

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ive discovered countless bands i wouldnt of heard of through DLing.....most of my favourite bands as well. Spose it depends on your favourite genre how much stuff you'll find , i.e if you like pop, dont bother, but if its something more specific i.e death metal,jazz youll undoubtedly discover a few bands you havent heard of that youd like.

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ive discovered countless bands i wouldnt of heard of through DLing.....most of my favourite bands as well. Spose it depends on your favourite genre how much stuff you'll find , i.e if you like pop, dont bother, but if its something more specific i.e death metal,jazz youll undoubtedly discover a few bands you havent heard of that youd like.

I think he means that you probably read about them online/wherever, and then chose to download their recordings, so you're only using the downloading as a tool for acquiring, as opposed to discovery, primarily.

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Guest idol_wild
I download everything. I haven't bought a CD in years. Not because I think all record companies are corrupt, evil etc. or that I think they owe me something. I just don't see the point in paying for something I can get for free. I have no moral issues with downloading whatsoever.

At least you're honest. I'm along very similar lines these days. I used to be vehemently against downloading music and file sharing illegally. But when you earn less than 200 a week after tax, it's literally impossible to buy all the music you want once you've fed yourself and paid rent and bills.

Fortunately, a few years ago I was in a very priviliged position of excellent discount rates at One Up, so I spent almost all of my disposable income on music at that time. Now, however, I literally can't do that.

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At least you're honest. I'm along very similar lines these days. I used to be vehemently against downloading music and file sharing illegally. But when you earn less than 200 a week after tax, it's literally impossible to buy all the music you want once you've fed yourself and paid rent and bills.

Fortunately, a few years ago I was in a very priviliged position of excellent discount rates at One Up, so I spent almost all of my disposable income on music at that time. Now, however, I literally can't do that.

I spend all my money on DVDs! I dont have any cash left for music as well! The only CDs I buy are artists that are sometimes too obscure or old to find on the P2P sites, or stuff that's 3 in Asda, or if it's a band I really, really love. The only recent albums I've physically bought from a record shop instead of downloading are The View, The Killers and Amy Winehouse, which I suppose tells it's own story. I used to buy CDs, until I got broadband....

What used to get right on my tits is when you buy a band's new album, then 2 months after it's been out they release a "special edition" of it with a DVD or a few extra tracks. And you have to buy it again.

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I spend all my money on DVDs! I dont have any cash left for music as well! The only CDs I buy are artists that are sometimes too obscure or old to find on the P2P sites, or stuff that's 3 in Asda, or if it's a band I really, really love. The only recent albums I've physically bought from a record shop instead of downloading are The View, The Killers and Amy Winehouse, which I suppose tells it's own story. I used to buy CDs, until I got broadband....

What used to get right on my tits is when you buy a band's new album, then 2 months after it's been out they release a "special edition" of it with a DVD or a few extra tracks. And you have to buy it again.

Do you have a particular objection to downloading films?

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My thoughts are that I spend enough on cds some of the time that the multitude of downloads I take are all practically paid for. Music is overpriced and we are essentially paying for a very cheaply made but expensively marketed piece of music which ought to represent itself. I find it better to have the opportunity to listen to music beforehand because I don't work to have stacks of albums I like only moderately.

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Do you have a particular objection to downloading films?

They take longer, use up more space on my hard drive and are often poor quality. I have downloaded movies in the past but I find pirate movies often ruin the viewing experience, which I would not say is true of downloading music. Plus I like all the special features and stuff on DVDs.

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My thoughts are that I spend enough on cds some of the time that the multitude of downloads I take are all practically paid for. Music is overpriced and we are essentially paying for a very cheaply made but expensively marketed piece of music which ought to represent itself. I find it better to have the opportunity to listen to music beforehand because I don't work to have stacks of albums I like only moderately.

I think you'd be surprised at the amount of money an album takes to make, manufacture and promote, especially for smaller labels (eg. not Universal).

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The points raised and practices of participants on this thread are half, if not more, of the problem in the music industry. If an artist chooses to have his their music available on the internet for free download then fine but if not it is stealing plain and simple. I know there are arguments for in terms of promotion and marketing of underground music but that should be 'up to the artist to choose' and not the public, based on some unfounded anti establishment argument that is spouted when they should just say "I save cash at someone else's expense". How would you feel if you know that you had sold several hundred cd's and made a bit of cash but then heard several thousand cd's worth of your music was downloaded illegally meaning you had lost out on few thousand pounds worth of 'your' income?

Maybe your boss will tell you one day that he has decided that he had a month of your time/labour for free and you won't be paid for said month, just coz he fancied doing so...

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What revolution are you fighting for exactly?

It's always a simplistic "fuck the corporate, profiteering giant arguement" that some people think gives them the right to effectively rob musicians of their incomes.

I wasn't being completely serious, I'm not fighting for jack really, but I guess, for music to be free . . .

I was being tongue-in-cheek, or something like that, taking the mick out of the people who act all righteous about downloading, 'fuck the labels' and that. Sorry, I didn't make that very clear. I do realise that what I do may have a negative effect on the music industry. But the fact that I am introduced to a lot more music, and through me other people are introduced to music is positive.

I download everything. I haven't bought a CD in years. Not because I think all record companies are corrupt, evil etc. or that I think they owe me something. I just don't see the point in paying for something I can get for free. I have no moral issues with downloading whatsoever.

I'm this way as well. But the reason I started downloading was that I couldn't find most of what I wanted to hear in the shops, and I don't like ordering things in.

It'd be interesting to see what you've been downloading recently, and see if what you're downloading is released by 'greedy labels' - care to share?

Recently; Andy C, Sunny day real estate, Boxcutter, Frog Pocket, Fabriclive, John Martyn

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