Hog Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Amen to that. A lot of people think DIY is a smoke screen for getting away with doing a shit job "Its DIY innit...its punk"...I've seen first hand a lot of DIY'ers turning out to be hypocrites of the highest order' date=' people who would otherwise be respected.....so I don't care so much for the militant underground anymore....the deeper they dig underground the sooner they'll realise they can't dig up when they can no longer see or breathe [/quote']Every genre has hypocrites, fannys, nice people, gents etc Keilan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medichi Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Elitist' date=' no, purist, yes.[/quote']I guess that's a fine line.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Every genre has hypocrites' date=' fannys, nice people, gents etc Keilan[/quote']Heh, yeah well some people are held in a higher regard than others, but if people knew the truth....etc etcI keep my mouth well shut these days, certainly not my place to burst peoples bubbles...just never look up to anyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Just do what you do and enjoy, fuck everyone else. Its funny how impressionable we can be in our younger years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 you're just pissed off cos Doc and Gregor wouldn't let you have a big candle too.haha great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Yeah I know your not slagging off Spike and ok Jakes comments were harsh but when you know how Jake believes in DIY then I wouldn't take the insult personally. The way I see DIY is bands that book their own tours' date=' release their own records, put their own gigs on, help other bands with gig swaps, trades, zines and not rely on record labels, shops, booking agents to do it.[/quote']Well put, the idea is to do everything you can, every single thing, yourselves as much as possible. Obviously, it's not possible to do it 100% DIY. I have to buy the blank CDR's, use a photocopier etc., but it's not getting pressed at a pressing plant, I copy tapes myself and use a computer to burn the CDR's. Write letters, tape up packages, shell out on postage, a lot of work but it's a great feeling, it really is.To be honest, I don't know anything else, I've been into it for 16 years now and I guess I'm stuck with it for life. I probably do come across as some intolerant hard-liner, but tough. I very much doubt MMW will still be doing this in 10-12 years time, but I'll gladly eat my words if they are. Time will tell, it always does.And no, not every bit of vinyl I have is done DIY. I didn't think the Stranglers would be doing any runs of 300 red-vinyl sev's anytime soon.Dan, if you took anything personally, then maybe you should question why you deemed it necessary to send me a novella via pemo (PM, in-joke). I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone on this site, or anywhere else, thinks about me or Spike. Shit happens, not everyone's going to like you or your band. I could only stomach about 20 seconds of MMW, I truly thought it was awful, but really, so what? I still think the prospect of paying 1200 for an advert is repugnant, it goes against everything I believe in and it still smacks of taking a cash short-cut, I can't see it any other way. Hey-ho, agree to differ. The reason I went absolutely skeppy was Jamesy's implication that it was a gig I would want to play, no chance in hell. So, I guess we've both been insulted now, time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Amen to that. A lot of people think DIY is a smoke screen for getting away with doing a shit job "Its DIY innit...its punk"Good point, DIY, but do it WELL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve corps Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 jake is a known troublemaker here, shame dan fell into his trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 i guess it's all to with means to an end. the one gig with a couple of bands could be to more people than a whole tour of eastern europe and might be a better way of acheiving that bands aims. i'm sure they'll have fun. of course there's no reason why you couldn't do both. at the end of the day my minds weapon have the chance to play on a show a band at their level would normally not get to play' date=' with some bands they like and respect. fair play to them. and the likes of filthpact can go and book and manage a european tour a few times a year then fucking fair play to them to. everyone works hard to do it and everyones having fun playing their music. heh, can't we all just get along? i'm not taking sides, just been calling it how i see it. to be honest i'm more of the diy persuasion than anything else but only to an extent. there is no reason why you should pay thousands of pounds to record anywhere these days. and unless you can sell hundreds of thousands of records no reason to be on a major label either, and even then you need to have a great deal.of course if you want to pay thousands of pounds for promotional photographs, well then we can talk [/quote']totally. like I said "that's me".I know a cheap drunken party round eastern europe would do us good, cos the people that actually listen to us go to those kind of shows. if we played the shows MMW played, a handful might like us. same way as if MMW were playing in a country and western pub in the outskirts of bratislava to a bunch of smelly dreadlocked crusties, they probably wouldnt go down the best.horses for courses whatever that fucking expression is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jake Wifebeater Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 jake is a known troublemaker here' date=' shame dan fell into his trap.[/quote']I've got better things to do with my time, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve corps Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I've got better things to do with my time' date=' actually.[/quote']obviously you dont.anyways, you arent dragging me into this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted November 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 jake is a known troublemaker here' date=' shame dan fell into his trap.[/quote']hahaha, it wasn't as much 'fell into his trap' (as I knew he was being serious) as opposed to really getting bored and fed up with the continuing drivel directed (albeit indirectly) at me when I haven't said as much as word to him. It's childish I know, but for once it wound me up.I'm mean Jake is what - 30 years old? And he is STILL bashing on about how emo is rubbish etc, long after even the 14 year old kids (except the ascension boys) dropped it...My main problem is this;I have to buy the blank CDR's' date=' use a photocopier etc., but it's not getting pressed at a pressing plant, I copy tapes myself and use a computer to burn the CDR's. Write letters, tape up packages, shell out on postage, a lot of work but it's a great feeling, it really is..[/quote']How many HUNDRED of blank CDR's, do you think we have copied spending hours at a time in front of the computer? And yes, shelled out to send them all away? I've spent countless hours doing all the artwork as well. But I'm sure the way you do it so much more hard working and better...And I agree on one of your points... will MMW be around in 10 years time? Probably not, but I can promise you that I will still be playing music then, and I'm sure the other guys will too. Ben's being playing in various bands for over 10 years, and both myself and the drummer for 6 years - I wouldn't quite say it's "the only thing I know" however...I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone on this site' date=' or anywhere else, thinks about me or Spike..[/quote']That is rubbish. If you didn't care then you wouldn't post so much bullshit on here for a start. If you didn't care then you wouldn't go through all that painstaking trouble doing what you do to get your band heard. As much as I'd like to think I don't care what people on here thought, when someone speaks complete drivel about you it's hard not to want to put them straight.P.S. And Jake, that 1200 also went on flyers, 40,000 of which ended up at Reading Festival. Don't tell me you've never paid for flyers... If that is your opinion of a short cut then whatever. That's fair enough. However that is no reason to have some high and mighty opinion of the way you do things compared to us, because like it or not, we're not that dissimilar (except for the knuckles that drag along the ground ) *joke* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve corps Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 hardcore/punk DIY has too much silly rules and too much silly wankers waiting to enforce those rules, much like a lot of the punk/hardcore scene in general.check out the folk or noise scenes across the world for a better version of how to do it yourself without 'selling out, hohoho' etc.surely artistic freedom is freedom to express yourself artisticly? too many rules and regulations, its fucking music at the end of the day however you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 hahaha' date=' it wasn't as much 'fell into his trap' (as I knew he was being serious) as opposed to really getting bored and fed up with the continuing drivel directed (albeit indirectly) at me.[/quote']Typical arsehole - loves dishing out an insult, but acts a tenth of his age when it gets thrown back at him with afters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 obviously you dont.anyways' date=' you arent dragging me into this as well.[/quote']That is correct, he isnt dragging you into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 If you can't post on this thread without making a personal attack on another member of this website' date=' then don't post at all. This could be a good thread, but it's on its last chance now.[/quote']instead of closing good threads that have been ruined, why not just ban the people who keep ruining them?you know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Blastcap Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 interesting thread thisthis thread is very thought provoking, im struck by the fact that mmw and spd are roughly at the same level, but share little of the same principles. i think the root of the problem is this ( excuse me if i offend egos etc) both band are pretty derivative- spd are choosing the napalm death blast beat idiom to operate in and mmw weapon are some sort of post nu metal hybrid. both bands are of the vaguely familiar variety, but with some subtle and important facts that are relevent to the diy debate. spike take a blue print and "do it themselves" this incurrs use of opinion and personality, creating a new angle and sound. this i feel is why they dont suck. musically they are pretty conservative but lyric wise they offer something new and interesting. this transefers live, they are fun, but also savage and cutting.to be fair my opinion and judgement of mmw is based on mp3 files, to date i have not seen them live, i would like to but chances are i'm not going to be put on a guestlist in the near future. my impression is that the mighty mmw work hard on everything bar songs, they have "parts" and no real narrative. this is a shame, because there is a good / brilliant band lurking there, with a good/great singer, they just need to find something to say and a setting musically that fits.(this howerver, is just down to taste, but i have good taste.)in short the real meaning of DIY is seeing a band and being insprired, and chiefly being able to relate to them and thinking- "fuck i could do that as myself, and bring my own thing to it"- spd are taking an idea and making it thier own, mmw are simply treating the whole process as some sort of hnd qualification, if they put in the work they will suceed? now way, you got to give it something special.ooh i sound like that cunt from the moorings, albeit without the numerical flourish.(but his prose is elegant)any way, spd are "diy" but could go a long way, cause they have "it" mmw need to get a grip.out.tell me i'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesaw Bazz Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Possibly the best post i've seen on here in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted November 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Typical arsehole - loves dishing out an insult' date=' but acts a tenth of his age when it gets thrown back at him with afters! [/quote']I know dude, with qualities like that I'm surprised I've not been asked to join ascension yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 playground squabbles, playground squabbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medichi Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I know exactly who they are. There is a site upgrade planned for this month' date=' and a new set of forum rules has been drawn up to co-incide with the re-launch. The staff will be taking a much tougher line with people who ruin good discussions with abusive posts, put it that way...[/quote']So what you're saying is, if we want to attack soemone, we should do it now and avoid being banned for it in two weeks? Alright!Mr Blastcap - I get the feeling you come down on SPD side rather than MMW as you have to maintain your aura of absolute anti-cool, rather than being truly impartial. And can everyone from Ascension PLEASE get laid and chill out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted November 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Mr Blastcap - I get the feeling you come down on SPD side rather than MMW... I agree to an extent' date=' as I would say not seeing a band live is kind of important before judging them. However - I did greatly appreciate Mr Blastcap's post anyway, and find it pretty interesting all the same.And can everyone from Ascension PLEASE get laid and chill out! Why not ask Jake to profess his love for Taking Back Sunday whilst you're there eh? Wishful thinking at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Typical arsehole - loves dishing out an insult' date=' but acts a tenth of his age when it gets thrown back at him with afters! [/quote']haha and this comes from someone in ascencion........................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 this thread is very thought provoking' date=' im struck by the fact that mmw and spd are roughly at the same level, but share little of the same principles. i think the root of the problem is this ( excuse me if i offend egos etc) both band are pretty derivative- spd are choosing the napalm death blast beat idiom to operate in and mmw weapon are some sort of post nu metal hybrid. both bands are of the vaguely familiar variety, but with some subtle and important facts that are relevent to the diy debate. spike take a blue print and "do it themselves" this incurrs use of opinion and personality, creating a new angle and sound. this i feel is why they dont suck. musically they are pretty conservative but lyric wise they offer something new and interesting. this transefers live, they are fun, but also savage and cutting.to be fair my opinion and judgement of mmw is based on mp3 files, to date i have not seen them live, i would like to but chances are i'm not going to be put on a guestlist in the near future. my impression is that the mighty mmw work hard on everything bar songs, they have "parts" and no real narrative. this is a shame, because there is a good / brilliant band lurking there, with a good/great singer, they just need to find something to say and a setting musically that fits.(this howerver, is just down to taste, but i have good taste.)in short the real meaning of DIY is seeing a band and being insprired, and chiefly being able to relate to them and thinking- "fuck i could do that as myself, and bring my own thing to it"- spd are taking an idea and making it thier own, mmw are simply treating the whole process as some sort of hnd qualification, if they put in the work they will suceed? now way, you got to give it something special.ooh i sound like that cunt from the moorings, albeit without the numerical flourish.(but his prose is elegant)any way, spd are "diy" but could go a long way, cause they have "it" mmw need to get a grip.out.tell me i'm wrong.[/quote']that was ace. and i thought you just got drunk and shouted alot.but you did have a cathedral sticker on your acoustic, so you win extra points.im goin to the moorings in about an hour. i wa sin vomitus. you should come down and we can talk about Odin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blackadder Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 Why not ask Jake to profess his love for Taking Back Sunday whilst you're there eh? Wishful thinking at it's finest. And what do u mean by that??I'm just wondering..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts