2012/2013 Season Thread

[The Milner]

Rangers newco: ‘Big problem for Scottish society’ if Rangers plunge to Third Division

SCOTTISH Football Association chief executive Stewart Regan has issued a startling warning of “social unrest” in Scotland if newco Rangers are denied entry to the First Division of the Scottish Football League following the emphatic rejection today of their application to retain top-flight football at Ibrox.

Regan’s remarkable comment came as he insisted admission to the First Division is now the only viable option if Scottish football wishes to avoid what he described as a “slow, lingering death”.

The Scottish Premier League turned down Charles Green’s bid to have Rangers’ existing share in the organisation transferred to his newco for next season, with ten of the member clubs voting against the application. It is understood Green cast the only vote in favour, while Kilmarnock chairman Michael Johnston is believed to have abstained.

The SPL will now await the outcome of an SFL meeting next week when that organisation’s 30 clubs will vote on a proposal to accept newco Rangers into the First Division in the new season ahead of an amalgamation of the league governing bodies from 2013-14.

There is considerable opposition and resistance to the plan among SFL clubs and their supporters with many believing Rangers should have to apply for entry to the Third Division in the wake of their spectacular financial collapse.

But Regan bluntly asserted that Scottish football simply cannot afford to have Rangers outwith the top two tiers of the league structure, with his argument not confined to the commercial impact their absence would have.

“Without Rangers, there is social unrest and a big problem for Scottish society,” claimed Regan. “They have a huge fan base and to contemplate the situation where those fans don’t have a team to support, where those fans are effectively left without a game to follow, I just think that could lead to all sorts of issues, all sorts of problems for the game.

“Tribalism in football is really important. It is part of the game. People follow their clubs with pride, it is passed down from generation to generation. There are thousands of Rangers fans whose fathers and parents and grandfathers have been Rangers fans. You can’t contemplate a situation without that and if Rangers weren’t to exist that could have real dire consequences.

“There is a lot of emotion around this subject because Rangers are a huge institution in Scottish football history and they are where they are. Their fans have been hurt, they don’t know what’s happening. There hasn’t been a great deal of leadership at the club and there hasn’t been a huge amount of communication from the football authorities.

“The SPL have now decided that Rangers won’t be coming back into the SPL. From our perspective it’s important we set out the landscape because there is only one solution for the game now.

“The only solution for the game now is that Rangers come into the Scottish Football League and they come into it in the First Division. If Rangers were to go anywhere other than the First Division, then there would something in the region of £15.7 million worth of losses to the game.

“For the bigger clubs at the top of the league, that’s half their annual distributions. For clubs at the bottom it is basically wiping out their entire distributions, for some of the smaller clubs it’s a huge proportion of their annual turnover.

“The same will be true for most clubs. Perhaps clubs could survive for a short period of time but it’s not sustainable. Even if Rangers end up in the First Division, there is still going to be a £5 million loss of income to the SPL clubs. The game is not sustainable so there would be a slow lingering death for the game in Scotland. It would then trickle down to the SFL. From our perspective as the governing body and we cannot allow that to happen.

“If we allowed that to happen, it would simply be a dereliction of duty. Therefore, this whole decision-making process has been one of the most challenging and complex decisions that I have ever been involved in in 27 years of business as sport.

“Some clubs in the SFL are afraid of the implications of the decisions. There is the moral argument, the fear of a fans’ backlash and there are financial implications to consider. But when we look at the alternative, it is not possible to think about it without thinking of the game withering on the vine. We cannot contemplate that and the message has to be that Division One for Rangers is the only show in town as far as the future of Scottish football is concerned.”

Regan admits the influence of television contracts, which are largely predicated on the presence of Celtic and Rangers in the Scottish game, are the biggest single factor in his determination to ensure the Ibrox club drop no lower than the First Division. “We have had dialogue with the broadcasters,” he added, “and we understand what the various stakeholders from Sky television, ESPN, Sport Five and a number of the SPL’s other commercial partners are likely to do in the event Rangers are not in either of the top two tiers. It’s not pretty. That’s why we cannot sit back and let that happen without trying to get all parties to accept this is the only solution which can keep the game afloat.

“Without Old Firm games, the value drops, the overseas deals are almost exclusively about the Old Firm derby and that would go immediately. Then you look at the rest of the game and what it is worth. It is fair to say the broadcasters would live with a year without Rangers in the SPL, because it could be a fantastic story for them, which is why I think First Division rights will be an interest as people will want to see how this club is going to bounce back.”

Regan conceded, however, that there can be no guarantee a financially weakened Rangers will climb back to the top flight at the first attempt. “If Rangers don’t get promoted, then the game has got another year to suffer with the financial consequences that brings,” he said. “I can’t predict what will happen, because Rangers at the moment are a weakened team because of everything that has gone on.

“They are a newco at the moment, they have got very few players on their books. They are going to be entering the SFL in whatever division with a weakened team and I don’t think it’s by any means certain they are going to come back in the way they or their fans might like them to recover.

“It’s going to be a slow recovery to get back to the football fitness they have shown in the past. So we can’t look into the future and say ‘what if they don’t operate in a certain way?’. We can only look at building the foundations, to change the game for the better and provide an infrastructure that can bring financial certainty to the other 41 clubs.”

Regan confirmed that sanctions will apply to newco Rangers in the First Division and also made it clear the formation of an SPL2 will be pursued in order to accommodate the Ibrox club if they are rejected by the SFL next week. “The SFA have to transfer Rangers’ membership from oldco to newco,” he said. “That can be done with any conditions attached to it that the SFA board deem fit. We would expect a newco to carry some of the sanctions which would have related to the club had it still been in the previous incarnation. The membership cannot be transferred on financial grounds alone. It has to have a degree of sporting integrity and that means sporting sanctions.”

[Captain America]

Liverpool are fucking amazing. Revealed their third kit. It has tribal designs on the sleeves!

[delboy]

The new FIFA rankings are out and England are 4th above Italy, how on earth do they work it out? And Brazil 11th!!! I fail to see the point of FIFA rankings apart from giving me something to post about on this thread!

[Spoonie]

There are thousands of Rangers fans whose fathers and parents and grandfathers have been Rangers fans. You can’t contemplate a situation without that and if Rangers weren’t to exist that could have real dire consequences.

There are many thousands more who are fans because the team have been good for a long time. What you're doing, if you give them special treatment, is saying that all of their misdeeds are ok because they won a lot. If Hearts had been winning consistently throughout a 25 years span, their fan base both at home and abroad would have increased dramatically and they're been the team whose demise would have this same effect.

“For the bigger clubs at the top of the league, that’s half their annual distributions. For clubs at the bottom it is basically wiping out their entire distributions, for some of the smaller clubs it’s a huge proportion of their annual turnover.

So you're saying that all of the income for a club like Montrose or Arbroath or Brechin City comes as a result of Rangers being in the SPL? What a load of shit.

“The same will be true for most clubs. Perhaps clubs could survive for a short period of time but it’s not sustainable. Even if Rangers end up in the First Division, there is still going to be a £5 million loss of income to the SPL clubs. The game is not sustainable so there would be a slow lingering death for the game in Scotland. It would then trickle down to the SFL. From our perspective as the governing body and we cannot allow that to happen.

If it's the case that the game in Scotland will die if the authorities stop letting Rangers run roughshod over the top of everyone else, we should shut the gates and forget about it for good.

“If we allowed that to happen, it would simply be a dereliction of duty. Therefore, this whole decision-making process has been one of the most challenging and complex decisions that I have ever been involved in in 27 years of business as sport.

There's been deriliction of duty throughout this process. Don't start acting like you're saving the game now.

“Some clubs in the SFL are afraid of the implications of the decisions. There is the moral argument, the fear of a fans’ backlash and there are financial implications to consider. But when we look at the alternative, it is not possible to think about it without thinking of the game withering on the vine. We cannot contemplate that and the message has to be that Division One for Rangers is the only show in town as far as the future of Scottish football is concerned.”

Th fear of fans backlash is more than a moral argument. If the fans give up on their teams, it'll have a far bigger impact on the finances of the game than the loss of Rangers from the SPL.

“It’s going to be a slow recovery to get back to the football fitness they have shown in the past. So we can’t look into the future and say ‘what if they don’t operate in a certain way?’. We can only look at building the foundations, to change the game for the better and provide an infrastructure that can bring financial certainty to the other 41 clubs.”

It's a bit late to be interested in infrastructure and financial certainty.

Stuart Reagan is a total prick

[The Milner]

He is a complete bellend, and clearly the only agenda now for the SFA is making sure Rangers are in the SPL as of 2013/14 season. This could get even messier in the next few days, if the SFL vote against what the SFA want, they will form an SPL2 and put Rangers in there, but will any other clubs join? The SFA and SPL have also warned the SFL that if they vote against them, they will take away any promotion to the SPL from the 1st division. I hope these clubs have the balls to no be bullied into making the sFA choice.

Regan is right about one thing, this is going to cause civil unrest, but not in the way he thinks. Scottish fans will revolt and leave football if this gets pushed through, and SKY will not give a shit about covering empty scottish grounds every week, and the clubs will not survive if no one turns up, doesnt matter how much TV money there is. The 50 people who turn up to see Killie on a weekly basis have already said they wont go back after their chairman refused to vote. Dons fans already dont turn up.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

Looks like that's RVP off. Shame but I can see 200,000 reasons a week that he'd go.

There is presumably also a desire to win more than an FA Cup in his career.

[Alkaline]

There is presumably also a desire to win more than an FA Cup in his career.

He's got one of those elusive Champions League runner-up medals though!

[The Milner]

What did anyone expect, he is Dutch, Dutch footballers are absolute bellends, and ontop of that he is part of the worst collection of footballers, in a personality sense, a club has ever gathered, along with Nasri, Adebayor, Glichy, Gallas, and Fab.

[Captain America]

No doubt that winning more is a motivation, however it equally cant be said a club offering to practically double your wages isn't an equal motivation moving towards the end of your career.

Honestly I would rather keep him but if they get 20 million, get him out of the EPL hopefully and spend some of the money on another striker I don't think it's as bad as it could be. RVP has had 18 months injury free before that he averages 24 games total a season so he's always going to be a risk on that side of things.

[Soda Jerk]

I agree with most of those, but I don't think I have any bad blood towards RvP. Always comes across as a decent chap, other than doing the general stupid footballer things. I think what he said regarding leaving Arsenal was quite dignified. Whether he meant it or not is yet to be discovered. If he goes to a Premier League rival, then his apparent love for the club will be a load of horse.

I don't really have anything against Fabregas either. He is a good bloke, and it wasn't exactly his fault Barcelona acted like shitty shit bastards for years over trying to get him back.

[The Milner]

I dunno like Captain says, last year was the first he has been injury free for as long as i can remember, Arsenal have stuck by him through every drop in form and injury without hesitation, now after his first good season he turns his back and sites lack of ambition, not only that but he publicly comes out and questions the clubs ambition, and he is suppose to be captain, seems like an arse to me. If he is forced to stay i bet he sulks the entire season. Not only that but his form will drop and so will the chances of a new £200k a week contract.

Fab your prob right, but he did put the lip on when he wasnt allowed to move. Prob not as bad as im making out.

[Soda Jerk]

I think even Arsenal fans question the ambition of the club too though, so I don't seem it as a crime that RvP has done the same. They are a very well run club and are financially strong, but they rarely make big investments in the players and struggle to hang onto star players. That must frustrate Robin as he's seen a number of very talented players walk out of the door since he's been there. He did everything he could as captain last season and pulled them through almost all on his own. Podolski and Giroud are ok signings, but they just haven't replaced Fabregas or Nasri. Maybe he'll make a u-turn like Rooney did, as the situations are very similar. Perhaps Arsenal will promise to strengthen with world class players.

I can't blame him completely. He's one of the best strikers around, and he must be aching to get his hands on a title. He could probably do that if he went to Madrid or even City/United. If he loves the club like he says he does, then he should probably move abroad, otherwise his words won't mean anything, and you'll be right about him being a bit of a tit.

[The Milner]

Is he really one of the best strikers around, or did he just have a great season? At 28 last year was by far his most prolific, i would argue he had a slighly purple patch last year. Yes he is good, but he is not £200k a week good.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

Honestly I would rather keep him but if they get 20 million, get him out of the EPL hopefully and spend some of the money on another striker I don't think it's as bad as it could be. RVP has had 18 months injury free before that he averages 24 games total a season so he's always going to be a risk on that side of things.

I think it unlikely that he would command a transfer fee of as much as £20m tbh, with only a year to run on his contract.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Arsenal may hold on to him in the hope that they make a few more quality signins, really make a push on all fronts next season and hope he signs on in January?

[Captain America]

You can't replace a Fabregas though he is a very special player. Nasri should have been replaced but you could argue that having missed last season Wilshere is going to feel like a new signing in a midfield that was not all that awful last year.

I don't agree that Podolski and Giroud are just ok signings. There's seems to be some belief now that if you don't pay 20+ million players aren't very good. Podolski's record internationally and in Bundesliga last couple of seasons is brilliant and he can play wide on the left and CF. Giroud is a technically gifted player who can score goals from anywhere as he proved last season in Ligue 1 (that is the main risk though he is only proven at Ligue 1 level).

[Captain America]

I think it unlikely that he would command a transfer fee of as much as £20m tbh, with only a year to run on his contract.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that Arsenal may hold on to him in the hope that they make a few more quality signins, really make a push on all fronts next season and hope he signs on in January?

No I think that is there stance at the moment however if they do hold on to him will he be commited to the cause?

I would argue it's worth the risk as his injury record he might get injured again then are clubs still going to be offering him more than the 130k a week +5 mill bonus Arsenal offered him? He would have to perform during the year anyway because next August he is going to hit that magical 30 number that scares teams away so he certainly wouldn't get a big offer after an average season and being 30.

I think this is a long way from done but as I said if they can even get close to 20 mill for him and ship him to Italy/Spain/PSG and get him away from being able to haunt the club in the EPL it's not as bad as some would believe.

They must replace him though with another good striker.

[Soda Jerk]

You can't replace a Fabregas though he is a very special player. Nasri should have been replaced but you could argue that having missed last season Wilshere is going to feel like a new signing in a midfield that was not all that awful last year.

I don't agree that Podolski and Giroud are just ok signings. There's seems to be some belief now that if you don't pay 20+ million players aren't very good. Podolski's record internationally and in Bundesliga last couple of seasons is brilliant and he can play wide on the left and CF. Giroud is a technically gifted player who can score goals from anywhere as he proved last season in Ligue 1 (that is the main risk though he is only proven at Ligue 1 level).

Replacing Fabregas man for man is mostly impossible unless Barca had a fire sale, but they didn't really attempt to fill his role. I thought Nasri would have done actually, but then he went to City to be a squad player, when he could have been a talisman at Arsenal. Daft decision by a complete idiot. Neither weren't really replaced, and Wilshere has always had injury problems, so relying on him to immediately fill the role was a little naive.

I'm looking forward to seenig Giroud as he is unproven, and has good qualities. I've never really rated Podolski too highly. He's got a cunt of a left foot, but he goes missing alot. I don't think he can be relied on like Van Persie was. Maybe the Premier League will give him a new lease on life and he'll smash in a boatload of goals. Who knows?

[Adam Easy Wishes]

I thought Nasri would have done actually, but then he went to City to be a squad player, when he could have been a talisman at Arsenal. Daft decision by a complete idiot.

Really? He is an idiot for other reasons, granted, but his move to City made sense to me.

Money aside, he now has a Premier League winners medal and is part of a squad set to challenge for every trophy they can next year. I think he's done okay.

[Alphas]

Rangers newco: ‘Big problem for Scottish society’ if Rangers plunge to Third Division

This statement is a fucking joke. The organisation he runs, along with how the SPL have governed the top flight, have got us into this mess. Rangers imploding has just blown it all wide open and now the scaremongering comes out about the future of Scottish football. Well if he had been governing and operating the game as his organisation has responsibility for then maybe we could have complete integrity with the Rangers situation and have them start in the 3rd division. And social unrest?! At what point have Rangers not been causing social unrest! We've have to put up their bigoted shite for far too long and I'm sure Manchester loved the rioting when they lost the cup final.

I expect the SFA and SPL to continue to hide behind these sorts of stories rather than take responsibility for how the game has been run into the ground. Financially clubs have been living hand to mouth for too long (which hasn't been addressed as they've had the Old Firm to rely on) but it has been in steady decline on the pitch at club and international level. They can't even agree on the size of the top league for fucks sake.

I'd love to see someone at one of the footballing authorities at coming forward and actually taking some responsibility for a change rather than giving us pish like this statement.

[Soda Jerk]

Really? He is an idiot for other reasons, granted, but his move to City made sense to me.

Money aside, he now has a Premier League winners medal and is part of a squad set to challenge for every trophy they can next year. I think he's done okay.

Perhaps in terms of his team being champions, then yes. Good move. I think if he stayed at Arsenal, he would have been a hugely important player, probably playing every game he was fit for, as whenever he played in Fabregas' absence, he looked very much at home in the middle. Nasri seemed to barely get a full 90 minutes at City last season. Always seemed to be the first player hauled off, or not played at all. when he does play, he plays outwide, and he just doesn't offer much there. I'm sure he's pleased with his move. He's got a winners medal and he's earning a tidy wedge. I just think he could have made a much bigger contribution at Arsenal then he has done at City, and I think Arsenal would have done alot better if he had stayed.

[Captain America]

Perhaps in terms of his team being champions, then yes. Good move. I think if he stayed at Arsenal, he would have been a hugely important player, probably playing every game he was fit for, as whenever he played in Fabregas' absence, he looked very much at home in the middle. Nasri seemed to barely get a full 90 minutes at City last season. Always seemed to be the first player hauled off, or not played at all. when he does play, he plays outwide, and he just doesn't offer much there. I'm sure he's pleased with his move. He's got a winners medal and he's earning a tidy wedge. I just think he could have made a much bigger contribution at Arsenal then he has done at City, and I think Arsenal would have done alot better if he had stayed.

Nasri is lucky Hazard chose Chelski, it looks very much like Mancini isn't that ennamoured by him and if Hazard had arrived I think that would have been the end of Nasri.

I agree with Soda Jerk here, Nasri made the right move if he wanted a medal. If he wanted to become a better player and play every week he should have stayed. Or gone to Man United.

[Gypsum_Fantastic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18730809

[Soda Jerk]

I really don't like McCoist, but out of everyone involved with Rangers, he's come out of this with arguably the most dignity. It's natural to be disappointed, considering his affiliation with the club, but he hasn't pissed and moaned like everyone else. He didn't seem to resort to threatening that Scottish football would die without Rangers. Unless I missed all that somehow, and he is actually a cunt?

[Paranoid Android]

Best Question of Sport captain.

[Gypsum_Fantastic]

Woods, you happy? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18734200