Aberdeen Journals and local music

[Guest Steven Dedalus]

I don't know why anyone gives a damn about the locality of anything, if you don't think of yourself in a global context I feel sorry for you. Frankly most aberdeen bands probably get more unique plays on myspace than people coming to their gigs anyway. With the internet you've got absolutely no excuse to not get your material out to loads of people or get signed to a niche label in some country in the world. So why give a shit about the local rag when the world is your proverbial oyster?*

*Oops, I'm forgetting how important prancing about on a stage playacting your childhood rockstar fantasies is.

What is this *internet* you speak of, oh wise one?

[Stripey]

What is this *internet* you speak of, oh wise one?

Loads of the artists/groups I listen to, I have no fucking clue where they are from and I don't particularly care. I doubt they care either. And I doubt they lose sleep over their local paper.

[framheim]

I don't know why anyone gives a damn about the locality of anything, if you don't think of yourself in a global context I feel sorry for you. Frankly most aberdeen bands probably get more unique plays on myspace than people coming to their gigs anyway. With the internet you've got absolutely no excuse to not get your material out to loads of people or get signed to a niche label in some country in the world. So why give a shit about the local rag when the world is your proverbial oyster?*

*Oops, I'm forgetting how important prancing about on a stage playacting your childhood rockstar fantasies is.

i agree, people should look at the internet as ways to get their music out to people all over the world. kartta have in the past been contacted by people in spain, portugal, america and other places all asking for cd's to play there or interested in maybe releasing stuff or if we're touring.

the other bit about rockstar fantasies is just silly. what's your beef with bands and playing live? it's fucking fun! that's all there is to it. it's not about ego or fantasies it's just a good laugh and completely different from the recording process.

[Chris]

what's your beef with bands and playing live? it's fucking fun! that's all there is to it. it's not about ego or fantasies it's just a good laugh and completely different from the recording process.

There is no fun in the digital world. Just 1s, 0s and l00ping b34tz

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Stripey should join the Samaritans... Or a folk band.

[Stripey]

i agree, people should look at the internet as ways to get their music out to people all over the world. kartta have in the past been contacted by people in spain, portugal, america and other places all asking for cd's to play there or interested in maybe releasing stuff or if we're touring.

the other bit about rockstar fantasies is just silly. what's your beef with bands and playing live? it's fucking fun! that's all there is to it. it's not about ego or fantasies it's just a good laugh and completely different from the recording process.

If it's about you having fun, then why do you think the local press, or the local community for that matter owes it to you to indulge you in this?

[framheim]

If it's about you having fun, then why do you think the local press, or the local community for that matter owes it to you to indulge you in this?

i've already said i don't think that they owe it to me or that they have any obligation to cover the local music scene. it's just my opinion that if they did everyone would benefit for reasons i've already laid out.

[Andy Mulhern]

And has been mentioned before, Aberden Journals are a business and that business is selling newspapers. They don't have any obligation to provide coverage of the local music scene, or indeed anything else for that matter. They cover what they think will sell their newspapers.

Dont forget about selling advertising space or more particularly selling the audience that will view that advertising space. That can be just as important - and online even more so - to any media outlet.... including this site

sell the audience to advertisers, not necessarily just sell units.

[Stripey]

i've already said i don't think that they owe it to me or that they have any obligation to cover the local music scene. it's just my opinion that if they did everyone would benefit for reasons i've already laid out.

..."benefit" in that supposedly more people would come to gigs to clap along at local musicians indulging themselves in having "fun". Then what? Tell all their mates what an awesome band they saw and go out and buy their cd's? (which might not even exist given the amount of bands in aberdeen that gig before doing any recording).

The whole idea is quite straightforward narcissistic behaviour.

It just doesn't serve any purpose because aberdeen is a tiny city, how many people out of 250,000 ( or whatever it is before some pedant corrects me) do bands expect to hold in their thrall exactly? Frankly the number of people going to gigs is probably determined more by the size of the population and the niche nature of the bands than any kind of promotion.

[framheim]

..."benefit" in that supposedly more people would come to gigs to clap along at local musicians indulging themselves in having "fun". Then what? Tell all their mates what an awesome band they saw and go out and buy their cd's? (which might not even exist given the amount of bands in aberdeen that gig before doing any recording).

The whole idea is quite straightforward narcissistic behaviour.

It just doesn't serve any purpose because aberdeen is a tiny city, how many people out of 250,000 ( or whatever it is before some pedant corrects me) do bands expect to hold in their thrall exactly? Frankly the number of people going to gigs is probably determined more by the size of the population and the niche nature of the bands than any kind of promotion.

or 'benefit' by all having fun together. meh. as i pointed out earlier in the thread but you flat out ignored it, if you think all this is narcissistic or merely massaging a bands ego then you need to take a look at why you even make music available for people to listen to. surely everytime you put music up on this site or anywhere you're just massaging your own fairly inflated ego right?

anyway, we get it. you don't like bands. ah well.

[Jeanette]

most people would go to a gig because they enjoy live music. and yes ive been to gigs purely to support my friends... even if i dont like them!! yes it would be nice to read in the newspaper this band is playing here and here and this is why... we all love a dramatic story, the only reason why it would make the papers. however this is not going to happen. so its down to bands, promoters and people who support them to get the word out. and if they're good enough and they have the determination they'll make it, if they're dont appeal they wont. simple as. how many average indie bands do we see some and go all the time. that down to major promoting and a little bit of help from NME.

[stuartmaxwell]

I don't know why anyone gives a damn about the locality of anything, if you don't think of yourself in a global context I feel sorry for you. Frankly most aberdeen bands probably get more unique plays on myspace than people coming to their gigs anyway. With the internet you've got absolutely no excuse to not get your material out to loads of people or get signed to a niche label in some country in the world. So why give a shit about the local rag when the world is your proverbial oyster?*

i do agree with this a lot, especially when I am looking at fucking smart handmade, giftwrapped/tagged packages of our cd with dead smart artwork and papers that a label from japan pressed 100 of for release over there.

and that came from an initial enquiry over the internet from that label. which is kinda proof that if people do like you enough, things will happen.

the internet is the portal for people finding music they like

[Stripey]

or 'benefit' by all having fun together. meh. as i pointed out earlier in the thread but you flat out ignored it, if you think all this is narcissistic or merely massaging a bands ego then you need to take a look at why you even make music available for people to listen to. surely everytime you put music up on this site or anywhere you're just massaging your own fairly inflated ego right?

anyway, we get it. you don't like bands. ah well.

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about why I make music or put it on the net or whatever, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with ego.

It's not that I don't like bands, I just think a lot of the points of view presented in this thread are a bit detached from the reality of living in a city as small as aberdeen, the reality of what these bands themselves are doing, and reality itself on a whole.

Naivity and idealism is fine to a degree, but it only ever pays off if you take risks. If pestering the local press to generate some publicity about your band is too much of a risk or hasn't occured to you, in a city where a seagull stealing crisps is headline news, then what hope is there? More to the point, it makes you wonder what a band which is that apathetic really has to communicate? Nothing of value IMO, and that is what leads me eventually to conclude that so many aberdeen bands are just about people fulfilling adolescent fantasies rather than any kind of artistry.

[WoodyRATM]

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about why I make music or put it on the net or whatever, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with ego.

It's not that I don't like bands, I just think a lot of the points of view presented in this thread are a bit detached from the reality of living in a city as small as aberdeen, the reality of what these bands themselves are doing, and reality itself on a whole.

Naivity and idealism is fine to a degree, but it only ever pays off if you take risks. If pestering the local press to generate some publicity about your band is too much of a risk or hasn't occured to you, in a city where a seagull stealing crisps is headline news, then what hope is there? More to the point, it makes you wonder what a band which is that apathetic really has to communicate? Nothing of value IMO, and that is what leads me eventually to conclude that so many aberdeen bands are just about people fulfilling adolescent fantasies rather than any kind of artistry.

Curious question; Which bands, in aberdeen, if any, have an artistic vibe to them in your opinion?

[framheim]

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about why I make music or put it on the net or whatever, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with ego.

It's not that I don't like bands, I just think a lot of the points of view presented in this thread are a bit detached from the reality of living in a city as small as aberdeen, the reality of what these bands themselves are doing, and reality itself on a whole.

Naivity and idealism is fine to a degree, but it only ever pays off if you take risks. If pestering the local press to generate some publicity about your band is too much of a risk or hasn't occured to you, in a city where a seagull stealing crisps is headline news, then what hope is there? More to the point, it makes you wonder what a band which is that apathetic really has to communicate? Nothing of value IMO, and that is what leads me eventually to conclude that so many aberdeen bands are just about people fulfilling adolescent fantasies rather than any kind of artistry.

if you're not prepared do discuss your own reasons for making music then perhaps you shouldn't continually question other peoples? but i'll let it go. i don't really want to turn this into an argument about who's got the least ego or anything like that

i dunno, maybe most bands are just about fulfilling adolescent fantasies. i guess that's why a lot of people pick up guitars in the first place but then they grow as musicians and people and their goals change. at the end of the day we all make music because it's something we're passionate about and we think we can create some good compositions be it using loops and computers or using guitars and drums. i know i don't perform live to massage my ego because quite frankly i'm not that good a guitarist to impress anyone.

i think this thread's been interesting and been for the main quite a good discussion. to recap, can we all agree that it'd be nice if aberdeen journals were to run some kind of regular critical music column but perhaps bands and artists in aberdeen don't do enough to encourage that. and we can continue to disagree on whether there'd actually be any interest in such a thing or if we actually want the rest of aberdeen to be interested in our music in the first place.

[Stripey]

it sounds counter-intuitive at first, but I don't know that making music is or should be about "having fun". It's a myth that's been peddled to kids since the 80's, punk, dire straits and MTV. It is sad that so many people have grown up with that mythology and genuinely believe it. I would wager that if you asked any serious group/artist since music began wether they think "it's all about havin a laff" they would tell you it isn't, that it's about hard work and putting in time and effort. Certainly any of the composers of the 19th an early 20th century didn't see it that way.

Fair enough if you and a bunch of mates have a jam at captain toms after a few beers or whatever in the name of fun and get a few gigs booked at some local venue, but this is the activities of the amateur, and it is funny that such people would complain that nobody (such as the press) is taking them seriously.

[Old Gold]

Are you a Calvinist too, Goodman Stripey?

[french_disko]

What is this *internet* you speak of, oh wise one?

It'll never take off. It's just an updated version of CB radio.

Bloody kids and their fads.

[framheim]

it sounds counter-intuitive at first, but I don't know that making music is or should be about "having fun". It's a myth that's been peddled to kids since the 80's, punk, dire straits and MTV. It is sad that so many people have grown up with that mythology and genuinely believe it. I would wager that if you asked any serious group/artist since music began wether they think "it's all about havin a laff" they would tell you it isn't, that it's about hard work and putting in time and effort. Certainly any of the composers of the 19th an early 20th century didn't see it that way.

Fair enough if you and a bunch of mates have a jam at captain toms after a few beers or whatever in the name of fun and get a few gigs booked at some local venue, but this is the activities of the amateur, and it is funny that such people would complain that nobody (such as the press) is taking them seriously.

no, just because you don't see it as fun doesn't mean other people can't enjoy themselves so don't patronise me. you really are just a miserable sod aren't you?

[Soda Jerk]

it sounds counter-intuitive at first, but I don't know that making music is or should be about "having fun". It's a myth that's been peddled to kids since the 80's, punk, dire straits and MTV. It is sad that so many people have grown up with that mythology and genuinely believe it. I would wager that if you asked any serious group/artist since music began wether they think "it's all about havin a laff" they would tell you it isn't, that it's about hard work and putting in time and effort. Certainly any of the composers of the 19th an early 20th century didn't see it that way.

Fair enough if you and a bunch of mates have a jam at captain toms after a few beers or whatever in the name of fun and get a few gigs booked at some local venue, but this is the activities of the amateur, and it is funny that such people would complain that nobody (such as the press) is taking them seriously.

This comes across as absolutely bonkers to me. Sure, if you want your band to "go places" (I don't want to use the term "make it") then you have to put alot of time, work and effort into it, but that doesn't mean it's not fun. Getting together with your band and putting a song together for hours if not days can be hard work, but it's still fun and probably an arseload more productive and self fulfilling than yours (or anyones) day job. Bands I've been in have toured all over the place and spent so many spare hours writing and recording. Quite often huge, time consuming commitments with little or no monetary value in return. If you'd have asked any of us why we do it, it'd be because it's just the most fulfilling thing we could be doing right now, despite how difficult and stressful it can get.

Your black and white blanket statement of a jam after a few beers with your mates being fun, but an actual, hard working band not being fun is ridiculous. You completely miss out the absolutely massive middle ground between the odd casual jam and a band which is pushing to make as much money as possible.

And I personally wouldn't want to be in a band if it wasn't fun. I'm sure that goes for alot of people.

[KimyReizeger]

Semantic confusion..

words like 'enjoyable' and 'rewarding' are more applicable to any bands I've been in (coupled with 'exasperation', 'anger' and 'mental torment'). If your band has any ambition at all, describing it as fun is probably misleading. That said, these are words that you guys are arguing about now.

[Stripey]

no, just because you don't see it as fun doesn't mean other people can't enjoy themselves so don't patronise me. you really are just a miserable sod aren't you?

No, and I'm not patronising anyone, it's my carefully considered point of view, sorry you feel that way.

[Guest Steven Dedalus]

it sounds counter-intuitive at first, but I don't know that making music is or should be about "having fun". It's a myth that's been peddled to kids since the 80's, punk, dire straits and MTV. It is sad that so many people have grown up with that mythology and genuinely believe it. I would wager that if you asked any serious group/artist since music began wether they think "it's all about havin a laff" they would tell you it isn't, that it's about hard work and putting in time and effort. Certainly any of the composers of the 19th an early 20th century didn't see it that way.

.

I didn't want to get drawn into your petty little rants, but I am a small minded person who can't let things like this go.

1. Have you ever been in a band? If the answer is 'no', then how could you have any idea whether being in a band is 'fun' or not? If you have, then your point is still completely invalid. You are using knowledge by induction to prove your 'point', and it is completely unreasonable for you to say that "i don't have fun making music, therefore it is not fun to make music, therefore anyone who has fun whilst making music is a plebian cretin, and should be destroyed."

2. "It's a myth that's been peddled to kids since the 80's, punk, dire straits and MTV. " - what in god's name does that mean? Are we talking about the same thing? Music, right? The thing that a lot of poeple do as a hobby, some do as a career, some try and do both? Is that what we're referring to? I never realised that music was some kind of totalitarian regime that brain-washes us into an ideological straight-jacket. I must be really clever, cos they didn't get me, nyuk, nyuk.

3. Stop hijaking this argument to talk about yourself and your dislike of the place you live in. The last couple of pages have nothing to do with anything other than your petty little vendettas. If you hate it so much, go somewhere else. I did, and I'm a better person for it.

Ugh.

I wish I could rise above this, but I can't.

I look forward to your antagonistic and provocative response.

[framheim]

No, and I'm not patronising anyone, it's my carefully considered point of view, sorry you feel that way.

well it was particularly patronising to dismiss other peoples musical endeavours in the way you did. but i'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

i just think if you can't get any enjoyment out of what you're doing then perhaps you shouldn't be doing it. it can't be a very happy way to spend your time. unless you want to be a tortured artist which is all a bit contrived in this day and age isn't it? ach well. we'll agree to disagree and move on shall we? i'd imagine this is as boring to read as it is to type out time after time

[Stripey]

3. Stop hijaking this argument to talk about yourself and your dislike of the place you live in. The last couple of pages have nothing to do with anything other than your petty little vendettas. If you hate it so much, go somewhere else. I did, and I'm a better person for it.

I'm not hijacking this thread, I'm airing my views and I make no apologies for it, if people can't respond intelligently in an impersonal way like grownups, that's not my problem atall.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for someone to explain exactly how many people out of the tiny population of aberdeen they expect to get going regularly to gigs.