2007/2008 season thread

[Stichman]

Dunfermline are looking for a new manager:

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Dunfermline Athletic | Pars part company with boss Kenny

I'm not sure I would have sacked Kenny, but you can't really say that the decision can't be justified.

We had two good cup runs, but a few wins against big teams does not a good team make. We have had a horrendous league record under his management - 8 wins in 38 games. Let's not forget that Kenny did get us relegated from the SPL (with a talented and able squad) and now, almost halfway through the season, we're languishing in the lower reaches of the 1st division with not a hope of promotion and potentially a relegation dogfight on our hands.

I can't agree that the senior players have been the problem - Crawford and McManus, for me, have been about the only two players with a bit of passion about them. We have a weak squad completely unsuited to the division we're in. We have had a lot of injuries, but we still shouldn't be getting thumped 5-0 at home.

Kenny has made some terrible calls with regards to player management - shipping McGuire off on loan was plain stupid, and spending a large part of his wage allowance on Sol Bamba wasn't wise - for every good game, he has two shockers.

Kenny has had success in the past, but he has, ultimately, failed at Dunfermline.

[delboy]

its an old cliche but this is a results based business and those thumpings at home was only going to lead to one conclusion. he did a great job at derry city but was clearly out of his depth at dunfermline.

[Johnny Mac]

the only thing they could do would be to close some of the sections so that everyone isn't spread out as much...

think blackburn do that don't they???

Indeed.... the best thing would be if it's a two tier stadium.... and only open the bottom tiers for smaller games, I think that would work quite well.

[Guest idol_wild]

I'll be devastated if AFC move to a new stadium. Not only will we rarely (in fact, never) fill it to capacity, but the prices will increase and it'll look like every new stadium that has been built in the UK in the past 8 years.

Pittodrie has character. Sure, it needs re-development, but it's our home ground. Until we regularly fill it (which we never will on a regular basis), then we consider a new ground.

[Chris]

Pittodrie is falling down, that's why we're moving. It's also going to be deemed too unsafe for European matches shortly.

[Guest idol_wild]

Pittodrie is falling down, that's why we're moving. It's also going to be deemed too unsafe for European matches shortly.

It's okay: we've only got one more European match left for a long while anyway!

I personally feel re-developing Pittodrie is the way to go. A new Main Stand is pretty much all we need.

I feel so strongly against the idea of a new stadium that I would probably stop going to games completely if we got one. I hate new stadiums. Hate them with a passion.

[Chris]

ah but then Milne wouldn't get to build executive flats where Pittodrie is.

[Scorge]

Dick Shambles for Dunfermline!

[Johnny Mac]

I personally feel re-developing Pittodrie is the way to go. A new Main Stand is pretty much all we need.

I feel so strongly against the idea of a new stadium that I would probably stop going to games completely if we got one. I hate new stadiums. Hate them with a passion.

Pittodrie is impossible to redevelop.

The merkland now has buildings right out back, the south stand has loads of developments to the rear of it and the main stand is a listed builidng. It's not as simple as knocking it down sadly.

Not going to happen.

Besides... we are only moving across the road hopefully.

I'm all for it.... get a roof on the bastard too, keep out the shite weather here.

[Guest idol_wild]

Pittodrie is impossible to redevelop.

The merkland now has buildings right out back, the south stand has loads of developments to the rear of it and the main stand is a listed builidng. It's not as simple as knocking it down sadly.

Leave the Merkland as it is - there's nothing wrong with it. It's just the Main Stand that requires work. It doesn't need to be any bigger at all. Just newer and more appropriate.

[Johnny Mac]

Leave the Merkland as it is - there's nothing wrong with it. It's just the Main Stand that requires work. It doesn't need to be any bigger at all. Just newer and more appropriate.

It's not as simple as that. If only.

It costs so much just to keep the merkland and south and main stands up to safety standards each season.

Redevelopment is simply not viable.

Also, a listed bulding just can't be knocked down.

[Guest idol_wild]

It costs so much just to keep the merkland and south and main stands up to safety standards each season.

Merkland and South stands...why would it cost any more to keep these up to safety standards than the RDS? I can see why the Main Stand would cost so much.

And I doubt there will be much problem knocking down the Main Stand if/when Milne gets permission for his executive flats, so I'm thinking it'd be no more difficult to knock it down and build a more modern little stand in there.

[Johnny Mac]

Merkland and South stands...why would it cost any more to keep these up to safety standards than the RDS? I can see why the Main Stand would cost so much.

And I doubt there will be much problem knocking down the Main Stand if/when Milne gets permission for his executive flats, so I'm thinking it'd be no more difficult to knock it down and build a more modern little stand in there.

You're just not grasping this are you?

As much as we'd all love to stay at todders, the club simply can't survive with it's current (and rapidly rising) debt.

The stadium costs too much each season to gain it's safety certificate (trust me, I know this too. Not the ins and outs, just the fact that it's crippling us along with the debt).

We will not be redeveloping pittodrie. As in not redeveloping pittodrie. Ever.

I'm all for a nice new stadium with a roof and nice and enclosed. 20 odd years of sitting in the freezing cold and rain is more than enough I think

[Guest idol_wild]

You're just not grasping this are you?

The stadium costs too much each season to gain it's safety certificate (trust me, I know this too. Not the ins and outs, just the fact that it's crippling us along with the debt).

I don't understand how Pittodrie would cost much more, than, say, Easter Road or Tynecastle. Both of which have one ancient stand remaining. You're right, I don't think I am grasping this at all.

I really would turn my back on attending games, should AFC move to a new stadium. It's pathetic enough to have Pittodrie only half-full, let alone a 30,000 arena which would then be only a third-full. I doubt attendances would increase dramatically if we moved to a new stadium. That's not the reason people are staying away from Pittodrie...

[Johnny Mac]

I don't understand how Pittodrie would cost much more, than, say, Easter Road or Tynecastle. Both of which have one ancient stand remaining. You're right, I don't think I am grasping this at all.

I really would turn my back on attending games, should AFC move to a new stadium. It's pathetic enough to have Pittodrie only half-full, let alone a 30,000 arena which would then be only a third-full. I doubt attendances would increase dramatically if we moved to a new stadium. That's not the reason people are staying away from Pittodrie...

Right.... let's go down your route. Initially, where do we get the 6-10 Million (minimum) to build a new main stand? Do you have any ideas? As i'm sure the club have looked into this.

Both Hibs and Hearts are in the process of getting plans finalised for their new main stands (these will be completed in due course). They have 3 new stands each already in place.

Note, hibs have loads of cash due to the sale of players and already have a great youth policy and a new training ground soon. We have neither.

Hearts have a madman in charge who has taken all their debt on board and is throwing money at them left right and center for players and stadium development etc. We do not have this either.

You'd turn your back on AFC because we move stadium? How narrow minded is that? The only way AFC will survive is by moving stadium. Otherwise we are tatties. Why are people so against progress and moving on? It's only a stadium.... Hasn't done Arsenal any harm.

Not to mention the fact the rugby club people need a stadium too, the amount of big gigs such a venue could attract etc blah blah blah. It can easily be made 2 tier so that the upper tier could be closed off for smaller games. It's a no brainer really.

Are you against Trumps golf course too?

God help Aberdeen.

[Jamie]

What do you reckon will happen to the Main Stand after any re-location, given its listed building status?

[RossP]

God help Aberdeen.

... City and Shire.

[Guest idol_wild]

Right.... let's go down your route. Initially, where do we get the 6-10 Million (minimum) to build a new main stand? Do you have any ideas? As i'm sure the club have looked into this.

Both Hibs and Hearts are in the process of getting plans finalised for their new main stands (these will be completed in due course). They have 3 new stands each already in place.

Note, hibs have loads of cash due to the sale of players and already have a great youth policy and a new training ground soon. We have neither.

Hearts have a madman in charge who has taken all their debt on board and is throwing money at them left right and center for players and stadium development etc. We do not have this either.

You'd turn your back on AFC because we move stadium? How narrow minded is that? The only way AFC will survive is by moving stadium. Otherwise we are tatties. Why are people so against progress and moving on? It's only a stadium.... Hasn't done Arsenal any harm.

Not to mention the fact the rugby club people need a stadium too, the amount of big gigs such a venue could attract etc blah blah blah. It can easily be made 2 tier so that the upper tier could be closed off for smaller games. It's a no brainer really.

Are you against Trumps golf course too?

God help Aberdeen.

I know I'm sort of clutching at straws to an extent, but I think you're exaggerating by suggesting AFC won't survive unless it moves stadium.

And it's not just a stadium! The ground a club plays at is part of the make-up of that club. It's their home. It's where the club is based. It's part of the identity, history, and character of the club!

I would still be an AFC man, new stadium or not, but I can barely afford to attend games at Pittodrie at 21 a pop, let alone some shitty lego-land stadium that'll look like every other new stadium in the UK...and let's face it: ticket prices will shoot.

And the Arsenal comparison is a bit ridiculous, by the way. Two clubs on completely opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of top flight football in their respective countries.

I sort of see the point if I look at the bigger picture. I just really really don't want to move into a new stadium.

As for the Trump thing: I didn't care either way. I could see both sides of the argument and didn't invest enough time or thought into reaching my own conclusion, simply because I never thought it'd happen anyway.

I also don't think a new stadium for AFC will happen, for the record

[Johnny Mac]

I know I'm sort of clutching at straws to an extent, but I think you're exaggerating by suggesting AFC won't survive unless it moves stadium.

It's not an exaggeration. Our debt is increasing millions per year. The only reason were are not in administration is because Stewart Milne has guaranteed the debt with the bank.

And it's not just a stadium! The ground a club plays at is part of the make-up of that club. It's their home. It's where the club is based. It's part of the identity, history, and character of the club!

Yep, and moving 200 yeards across the road is not really going to change that. Pittodrie is a crumbling mess. It's falling to bits bar the dick donald stand. It's dated, has terrible facilities and terrible views from behind poles in the main and merkland stands. Believe me, i'd love to stay at Pittodrie as much as anyone, but it's simply not viable in the long term. The rose tinted glasses need to come off at some point.

I would still be an AFC man, new stadium or not, but I can barely afford to attend games at Pittodrie at 21 a pop, let alone some shitty lego-land stadium that'll look like every other new stadium in the UK...and let's face it: ticket prices will shoot.

How do you know the stadium will look like every other? Have you seen the plans for it? I for one think the ideas they have produced in the past few years look great, it will be enclosed, all under one roof and have top facilities which will benefit the club and city and help attract better players. And I can't see them increasing ticket prices.... they want to attract people, not drive them away. The club aren't stupid in this respect.

And the Arsenal comparison is a bit ridiculous, by the way. Two clubs on completely opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of top flight football in their respective countries.

No, it's a perfectly acceptable comparison. Their ground needed renovation. The fans were against moving away from their 'spiritual home'. But look at the investment, fantastic new stadium and facilities they have. That was more the point i was making. They were also inhibited by surrounding space of the stadium like we are which prevented expanding it.

As for the Trump thing: I didn't care either way. I could see both sides of the argument and didn't invest enough time or thought into reaching my own conclusion, simply because I never thought it'd happen anyway.

Anyone who thinks the trump thing is a bad idea should be shot. In the face. Twice. Set on fire. And put out with a golf shoe.

I also don't think a new stadium for AFC will happen, for the record

Well, that'll be goodnight from Aberdeen Football Club. Hello Administrators. Stewart Milne is the only thing keeping us afloat right now.

[Guest idol_wild]

Yep, and moving 200 yeards across the road is not really going to change that. Pittodrie is a crumbling mess. It's falling to bits bar the dick donald stand. It's dated, has terrible facilities and terrible views from behind poles in the main and merkland stands. Believe me, i'd love to stay at Pittodrie as much as anyone, but it's simply not viable in the long term. The rose tinted glasses need to come off at some point.

I don't mean where the ground is literally based. I mean Pittodrie. The ground. The stadium. How it looks. How it functions. It's what makes my club my club! 8-)

How do you know the stadium will look like every other? Have you seen the plans for it? I for one think the ideas they have produced in the past few years look great, it will be enclosed, all under one roof and have top facilities which will benefit the club and city and help attract better players. And I can't see them increasing ticket prices.... they want to attract people, not drive them away. The club aren't stupid in this respect.

I've seen some of the plans and it looks very much akin to grounds at Middlesborough, Leicester, Derby, Southampton, Coventry, etc. Horrible identi-kit stadiums with the corners filled in. The ticket prices will certainly not drop, that's for sure. But they can't get 12,000 into Pittodrie every week with the current pricing structure, so to get at least 20,000 every week, ticket prices would need to be almost halved. Which will never ever happen.

No, it's a perfectly acceptable comparison. Their ground needed renovation. The fans were against moving away from their 'spiritual home'. But look at the investment, fantastic new stadium and facilities they have. That was more the point i was making. They were also inhibited by surrounding space of the stadium like we are which prevented expanding it.

Come on, comrade. You're comparing one of the most successful English clubs of the last twenty years, with genuine Champions League ambitions, squad full of superstars, and a stadium that was choc-a-block every single home game...with Aberdeen Football Club. A club that, essentially, should have been playing second tier football in Scotland not so long ago, and frequently struggle to half-fill their home ground. They moved because they wanted to allow more fans in to see their home games. Aberdeen will never ever require a larger capacity. 30,000 is obscene.

Anyone who thinks the trump thing is a bad idea should be shot. In the face. Twice. Set on fire. And put out with a golf shoe.

There's a thread about this elsewhere, which I never took part in for a reason. I simply don't want to waste much thought on the matter. I am not swayed either way.

[Johnny Mac]

I'm done here. You're just really not getting what i'm trying to say are you? That's fair enough.

I'm telling you facts. It may not be what you want to hear, but there are many harsh realities about the state of AFC right now. If only Dick Donald and Chris Anderson hadn't passed on we wouldn't be in this mess now.

And i'm not comparing us to arsenal if you read what i was saying. I was comparing the need for a new stadium for both.... and the space restricitons for both. And the fact a new stadium would bring many benefits for AFC. And yes, the dons are shit. I know this, I've been going to Pittodrie for over 20 years.

I'm not wasting thought on it either. I know we will be moving sooner rather than later, or i'll have to support Buckie Thistle when I go visit my folks.

[chris h]

So far so good in the UEFA cup tonight... Atletico and Panathanaikos both leading 2-0.

If it stays this way the Dons have everything to play for in the last game.

Fingers crossed.

[Johnny Mac]

Woooooooooo hooooooooooooooo.

Gonna be a bounce at Todders on the 20th! Sellout surely?

Due a win in this group too.

COME ON THE DONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RossP]

I had a fiver on those 2 results, plus Roma, Inter and Everton to win tonight also

Some brief respite from my terrible flu like disease...

[Johnny Mac]

A good little earner?