Stichman

"It's all the fault of the christians!" Doesn't your apparent obsession with 'morality' stem from religion?

Well I don't believe. Infants have the capacity to be fully-fledged, functoning human beings. Eating them would be denying them the potential to live. I just don't believe that humans and cows should have the same rights. Nobody has yet told me why we should feel obliged to not kill (other) animals, if we too are animals? They're fair game.

No, I'm obviously not talking about pidgeons getting angsty or pigs getting grouchy. I mean that there is no way a cow is aware it is being reared to be eventually killed and eaten. It cannot grasp this and it never will be able to. They can probably experience fear, which is why the killing process should be as 'humane' as possible. Like what ca-gere says - Oh, and where are all these 'recent studies' you keep referring to? Please tell me why animals should have 'equal claim in our moral thought'. Why should they? You are applying our human notion of 'life' to that of an animal. A pig is not a human with trotters. Why should I change my tastes? I don't think there is anything remotely morally wrong with eating animals. In that sense, it's not even a moral issue for me. Morals don't come into it. Why should we have some kind of obligation to not eat and kill animals? Again, if pigs were the dominant species, they'd have no problem with killing and eating me. There is a massive contradiction in vegetarian argument - you would agree that we are all just animals, yeah? Then we should be able to eat anything we want. Just because we are capable of reason doesn't mean we should treat all other animals as equals. They aren't.

LINK PLZ. Animals do not have 'complex emotions'. It's like in that Peter Singer link when they warble on about elephants maybe possibly mourning their loved ones. Pish. That's the kind of wooly 'evidence' that Dawkins usually gleefully denounces. Just trying to cut through your philosophical garble, are you saying that because humans and cows both conciously exist, they should both be equally protected against death and suffering?

No, it is a terrible analogy. Disabled people are extremely unfortunate; they have been born with or developed a condition that means they are often no longer capable of the same mental processes as their fellow humans. We looks after and sympthise and care for disabled people because they are still people. Cows will never be people. They are cows.

We are at the top of the food chain; we can eat whatever we want to eat. For me, there is absolutely no question of morality because we are infinitely superior to other animals. They do not have complex emotions, they are not aware that they are going to be killed and eaten for food. Thus, breeding them for food is not cruel. Nor is it immoral. Indeed, cattle live a more comfortable existence than they ever would in the wild. Of course I do not agree with animal cruelty or causing animals to suffer for no reason. However, I have no problem with eating meat because I think we have the right to eat whatever we want. If pigs could kill and eat me then they would, without a second thought. For me, the big mistake in vegan/vegetarian logic is the application of human morality to animals. Animals are not humans, and the rights we grant to each should be very different. Animals are less important than humans. It makes me sick to the stomach when people donate millions of pounds to charities to help re-house cats or provide care for hamsters, when millions of human beings are suffering and dying every single day.

I still don't get this argument. A disabled person is a person. A cow is not a person.

SENSE. 'Please spread blah-de-blah'

I don't understand why everyone is crying about Burley. We're still in with more than a decent chance of reaching the play-offs with three games to go, two of them being home games. The two disappointing results have been a fairly unfortunate loss in a tricky away fixture to Macedonia, and the 0-0 with Norway which we all know could have been very different if a certain somebody had his shooting boots on. I couldn't believe the way some Scotland fans were pissing and moaning after the Holland game, as if we have the right to expect our tiny, very limited side to go and beat one of the best teams in the world in their own back yard. Gah. Bad results happen under every management regime; getting gubbed by a Georgian second-string, anyone? We still have a lot to do, but lest we forget, Smith and McLeish both ultimately failed to get us into a major championship. Burley should enjoy our full support whilst we're still in with a shout.

Did anyone seen that prog programme on... BBC Four? I think. It was class.

The Underkills

If you still have this in eight months, I'll buy it off you

I'm not really in to Harry Potter, but I went to see this with my girlfriend and it was pretty decent. Although, isn't big HP meant to be a totally class wizard and the saviour of the world an' that? In that case, why is the best spell he knows 'stupify'? When those Gollumy things are crawling out of the water, probably about to devour his soul, the best thing he can come out with is the magical equivalent of a slap on the wrist. Poor effort mate. He should have kept Snape's book, that was more like it.

It's one of the most versatile and distinctive spices in the world, pal. Now, feel the wrath of my niche smilies..

Incorrect.

Beef and cinnamon. Best. Combination. Ever.

We're playing it too. Should be ace.

I quite enjoyed that, actually. Their logo is a total rip off of the Triforce from Zelda: Ocarina of Time though. They've just shoved in an added triangle...

I'm jealous.

Haha, maybe I'm getting carried away with my Caravany love.In the Land of Grey and Pink is just such a good album. I think For Girls Who Go Plump... is a hugely underrated record too, I think it's just quality. King Crimson are my favourite prog band though. Just so much better than Pink Floyd who, for the most part, churned out what is by comparison a raft of pish. True story. Piper at the Gates is pretty ace, but they have truly come out with some amount of rubbish since then. What about Beggars Opera? Haha

Yeah Lark's Tongue is pretty decent too. Have you heard any of their live stuff? Awesome. I see you mentioned Caravan; favourite album? I think they're pretty often overlooked, but they're one of the best British prog bands in my humble opinion...

RUBBISH. I Didn't see that coming. Their new album was well good.

How was it? I think Laura Marling is a horrific shout for support.

In the Court of the Crimson King, of course. Starless and Bible Black is ace too.

King Crimson? Please.