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How can we ALL get a decent music scene happening in Aberdeen..??

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Excellent, on the better life/career path than rock (metal) star thing. OP hasn't replied with any input/feedback at all so far, so I don't think there's concrete now to anything to derail, tbh.

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Music is just fun really innit. I always found it odd that people are surprised if you listen to your own music (in the car or whatever)... I've always viewed it as the whole reason you'd write music is it is stuff you'd most want to listen to yourself!

 

It's funny you mention rock (metal) star though... and this I guess is more back on track with what the OP was asking. 

I'm not sure it's possible to be a 'rockstar' if you play metal these days, especially if it's a little more progressive or niche. It's a different case for the Metallicas and Iron Maidens of this world who made it big back when people bought music - but how many boda fide rock stars have come out in the last decade, who could live comfortably purely of releasing an album every few years and touring every now and again... Mastodon at a push? But I guess they've been established for the best part of 20 years now.

If you play commerical sounding rock, then sure you might get on the radio 1 A-list, headline the festivals, and live sustainably from music - but I can't think of many artists that play vaguely heavy/complex metal that you'd call a rockstar these days...and it hasn't really been that way post-nu-metal, where the likes of korn/limp bizkit/linkin park would sell millions of albums and tickets. 

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It's been said previously ( @colb in here, I think) but a ~80-cap venue is exactly what ABZ is missing to attempt to try and gather some kind of scene. If there was a venue where there were small shows on every night (other than tribute/cover bands), of all genres, that would be ideal.

Dr Drakes was great for this - it didn't matter what was on, if I had an hour or two to kill in town before a bus home or whatever then I'd head there for a drink and to hang out and nine times out of ten bump into someone I knew for a blether.

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16 hours ago, Dan G said:

It's funny you mention rock (metal) star though... and this I guess is more back on track with what the OP was asking. 

I'm not sure it's possible to be a 'rockstar' if you play metal these days, especially if it's a little more progressive or niche. It's a different case for the Metallicas and Iron Maidens of this world who made it big back when people bought music - but how many boda fide rock stars have come out in the last decade, who could live comfortably purely of releasing an album every few years and touring every now and again... Mastodon at a push? But I guess they've been established for the best part of 20 years now.

If you play commerical sounding rock, then sure you might get on the radio 1 A-list, headline the festivals, and live sustainably from music - but I can't think of many artists that play vaguely heavy/complex metal that you'd call a rockstar these days...and it hasn't really been that way post-nu-metal, where the likes of korn/limp bizkit/linkin park would sell millions of albums and tickets. 

Yeah, you're right; all this MMW stuff was a decade or so ago. I think I got at it somewhere in that huge thread, but the internet and cheaper/more accessible pro recording/production gear has allowed people from all over the world to put out awesome metal (or math or post-rock, etc.) over the net. Great as a listener, as there's so much (often free; like really legally free) to choose from. Might be scary if you're trying to get into (even say full-time at whatever level, forget "star") it as a band/muso, though.

If you can even get big playing metal.Something like Animals as Leaders or Periphery, maybe (I don't listen to a vast range of stuff across the heavier end of metal); who obviously aren't as big as Metallica or Linkin Park. A lot of stuff I like (more instrumental prog or post-rock), seems to work professionally (international tours and such) but no idea how comfortably or if some aren't working day jobs (a lot of them are anywhere from the Czech Republic, to Russia - seems to be lots of Russians actually - to the Philippines. Internet again).

 

 

Edited by scottyboy

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On 6/8/2018 at 6:34 PM, Dan G said:

By 2005 Jamesy was far more interested with his work at Moshulu putting on gigs (he entirely stopped playing guitar in that Summer) and we realised we weren’t going to get any better if this continued, so parted ways. He often wound people up (both inside and outside the band!) but I believe his heart was always in the right place, and he had ambitions far beyond what anyone else in the Aberdeen music scene had. Or at least he tried harder to make them come to fruition.

 

Thinking back, Jamesy didn't do himself or MMW any favours at times. I remember him getting in someone's face outside Moshulu and threatening to give them a hiding, all because of some scene politics. The wise thing to do would have been to sit down with the guy over a beer, but instead he lost the plot and went way over the line. I didn't know the guy, but Jamesy made an absolute arse out of himself in front of a crowd of people. It wasn't the only time he responded with aggression as well - I remember being told by several different people that he was going to kick my head in over what I'd posted on here and that I should watch my back. I don't think he would have, but his temper really did get the better of him at times. I don't doubt his work ethic, but he was the worst example of taking the internet too seriously. 

Ben on the other hand never got involved in that stuff offline - I remember you'd normally find Ben in Moshulu just quietly drinking, and like you said, he never acted like a prima donna in public. He was also a good guy to a lot of young bands, but he never boasted about it on here or sang his own praises. I always had a lot of respect for him for that, because a lot of scene people were just nasty and spiteful towards young bands. 

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On 6/11/2018 at 2:41 PM, Adam Easy Wishes said:

It's been said previously ( @colb in here, I think) but a ~80-cap venue is exactly what ABZ is missing to attempt to try and gather some kind of scene. If there was a venue where there were small shows on every night (other than tribute/cover bands), of all genres, that would be ideal.

Dr Drakes was great for this - it didn't matter what was on, if I had an hour or two to kill in town before a bus home or whatever then I'd head there for a drink and to hang out and nine times out of ten bump into someone I knew for a blether.

Cellar is ~80 cap. We definitely need a Malt Mill/Downstairs sized place again though. I'm happy Exo has been used a lot recently for gigs. Has there been any gigs recently at Crash? There were a few a few years ago. But haven't really seen much recently. 

 

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13 hours ago, Cloud said:

Thinking back, Jamesy didn't do himself or MMW any favours at times. I remember him getting in someone's face outside Moshulu and threatening to give them a hiding, all because of some scene politics. The wise thing to do would have been to sit down with the guy over a beer, but instead he lost the plot and went way over the line. I didn't know the guy, but Jamesy made an absolute arse out of himself in front of a crowd of people. It wasn't the only time he responded with aggression as well - I remember being told by several different people that he was going to kick my head in over what I'd posted on here and that I should watch my back. I don't think he would have, but his temper really did get the better of him at times. I don't doubt his work ethic, but he was the worst example of taking the internet too seriously. 

Ben on the other hand never got involved in that stuff offline - I remember you'd normally find Ben in Moshulu just quietly drinking, and like you said, he never acted like a prima donna in public. He was also a good guy to a lot of young bands, but he never boasted about it on here or sang his own praises. I always had a lot of respect for him for that, because a lot of scene people were just nasty and spiteful towards young bands. 

Hilariously though Jamesy was the least likely of all the MMW guys to be able to give you a kicking, though the most inclined to try. His attitude sucked, and he had a massive ego, but ultimately he was a decent enough guy. 

 

I’ve got plenty of time for Ben, still mates with him, and always loved having a laugh or chat about Pantera or whatever with him and Dan especially.

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12 hours ago, Jaaakkkeee said:

Cellar is ~80 cap. We definitely need a Malt Mill/Downstairs sized place again though. I'm happy Exo has been used a lot recently for gigs. Has there been any gigs recently at Crash? There were a few a few years ago. But haven't really seen much recently. 

 

That 80 includes bands, soundpeople, barstaff etc. On an average gig night the paying punter cap is about 60, lower when it's Emo capers as all the bands seem to have at least 5 members.

How many of you does it take to play octaves and one finger power chords anyway?

The issue with Exo is no PA and they want free entry gigs, unless they're providing a budget/split of the bar that's out of reach to most promoters unless they've got a 5k PA in their back pocket.

Edited by colb

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19 hours ago, Cloud said:

Thinking back, Jamesy didn't do himself or MMW any favours at times. I remember him getting in someone's face outside Moshulu and threatening to give them a hiding, all because of some scene politics. The wise thing to do would have been to sit down with the guy over a beer, but instead he lost the plot and went way over the line. I didn't know the guy, but Jamesy made an absolute arse out of himself in front of a crowd of people. It wasn't the only time he responded with aggression as well - I remember being told by several different people that he was going to kick my head in over what I'd posted on here and that I should watch my back. I don't think he would have, but his temper really did get the better of him at times. I don't doubt his work ethic, but he was the worst example of taking the internet too seriously. 

Ben on the other hand never got involved in that stuff offline - I remember you'd normally find Ben in Moshulu just quietly drinking, and like you said, he never acted like a prima donna in public. He was also a good guy to a lot of young bands, but he never boasted about it on here or sang his own praises. I always had a lot of respect for him for that, because a lot of scene people were just nasty and spiteful towards young bands. 

As someone who knows the Jamesy and Ben of 2003-08 era as well as/better than anybody, I can categorically state that most people who only had occasional run ins with them don't know the full extent of their personality traits and attributes. Especially when anything to do with this site is concerned.

This is why phrases that state absolutes such as  "he was the worst example of taking the internet too seriously" and "Ben on the other hand never got involved in that stuff offline" are beyond wildly inaccurate, and I'm not going to go any further than that. We're all flawed humans - and some people just happen to be better at concealing their flaws than others.

Don't get me wrong - I fully appreciate that how we perceive others almost entirely comes down to our personal experience with them but you literally stated yourself you didn't know the guy. So with that in mind, I can tell you that in regards to 'kicking your head in' Jamesy often was more-talk-than-walk and would have never actually done that... but if my memory serves me correctly, half the people on this site threatened to do similar at some point. 

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I know a Lordie from London who does the Grime Report but i take it it isn't this guy. It's a shame he hasn't come back to the thread. There was a brilliant hip hop scene in aberdeen mid '99 to mid '02 then a brilliant r'n'b scene mid '02 to mid '05 but after that i couldn't comment. Shy & DRS the rap twins from Aberdeen had 4 singles in the uk top 200 & the scottish top 40 between 2012 & 2015. Grime blew up nationally but there has never seemed to be a grime scene in Aberdeen, Sway was supposed to do Tiger but never showed & Shogun was recently supposed to do the tunnels but again this didn't happen.

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6 hours ago, Dan G said:

As someone who knows the Jamesy and Ben of 2003-08 era as well as/better than anybody, I can categorically state that most people who only had occasional run ins with them don't know the full extent of their personality traits and attributes. Especially when anything to do with this site is concerned.

This is why phrases that state absolutes such as  "he was the worst example of taking the internet too seriously" and "Ben on the other hand never got involved in that stuff offline" are beyond wildly inaccurate, and I'm not going to go any further than that. We're all flawed humans - and some people just happen to be better at concealing their flaws than others.

Don't get me wrong - I fully appreciate that how we perceive others almost entirely comes down to our personal experience with them but you literally stated yourself you didn't know the guy. So with that in mind, I can tell you that in regards to 'kicking your head in' Jamesy often was more-talk-than-walk and would have never actually done that... but if my memory serves me correctly, half the people on this site threatened to do similar at some point. 

I agree with you, but imagine how it looked to see Jamesy berating and threatening someone who had seemingly done nothing and who didn't even know who Jamesy was? I had no dog in the fight, but it was unsettling to see how Jamesy was kicking off on someone who was an obvious victim of mistaken identity. Then when you get told through friends about how Jamesy's going to jump me if he sees me - it just added to my perception of him taking the internet way too seriously. Like you and Phil say, he wouldn't have done it - but it was surreal to be told this by different people, as it was obvious that he was at least telling people about it. In hindsight, it would have made more sense to go see him and sort it out face to face, but then it all went back to seeing him rage outside Moshulu.

I wouldn't have blamed Ben for kicking off for some of the things people said about him, but I always had a lot of respect for him for not doing so. He might have been different among other people, but he was always decent around me, and I could never understand why a certain group of people were always insulting him behind his back. His online persona was one thing, but I always put that down to him being bored and enjoying a good wind-up.

Hahaha, you're right, half the site did threaten something like that, but only two people seemingly took it seriously enough to pass threats on through other people.

I wonder if anyone did actually physically fight over what was posted on here?

Edited by Cloud

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4 hours ago, djricochet said:

I know a Lordie from London who does the Grime Report but i take it it isn't this guy. It's a shame he hasn't come back to the thread. There was a brilliant hip hop scene in aberdeen mid '99 to mid '02 then a brilliant r'n'b scene mid '02 to mid '05 but after that i couldn't comment. Shy & DRS the rap twins from Aberdeen had 4 singles in the uk top 200 & the scottish top 40 between 2012 & 2015. Grime blew up nationally but there has never seemed to be a grime scene in Aberdeen, Sway was supposed to do Tiger but never showed & Shogun was recently supposed to do the tunnels but again this didn't happen.

Ransom FA is making some waves and recently released his album, which is great by the way. and Cheeens has recently had a bit of a comeback. But there isn't the scene up here. There's the artists, just no scene, which sees most of them going to the central belt to perform with the likes of Shogun and SWVN.

That Shogun gig at tunnels, I heard it was something to do with one of the acts, but the promotion left a lot to be desired. I feel like it was a promoter trying to make money doing it, not realising that breaking even is considered a success up here. £13 a ticket for a wednesday night grime gig at Tunnels. Just not doable. 

Never liked Shy & DRS if I'm honest.

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On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, Lordie said:

I'm shocked at how a city like Aberdeen is not local artist friendly. It is one of the major cities in Scotland and yet I don't know of any local bands who have made it recently - please educate me if I am completely off the mark here..!! So how do WE (& I mean collectively) change this..?? How do we make Aberdeen vibrant musically..?? How can we take a little of the shine away from Glasgow..?? 

Aberdeen is a city past the top of the bell-curve. There is far less social and cultural capital in it than there was in it 10 years ago, it is suffering from the same suburbanisation that kills inner cities hence taking the money out of them, ergo there is no desire for A&R's to take a trip seeking musical wanderlust up here when it is geographically isolated. Most big PR attempts to address this are a sleight of hand (not music, but the highly-rated SPECTRA light festival is bought in from other cities, a perfect example of how money you could use to breed culture gets outsourced, completely defeating the point IMO)

More specifically: venues are scattergun, scenes have been micro-compacted and barely intertwine anymore, and the lack of a central point of reference like this site used to be for your key age groups (15-25) has been killed off by social media. There are still plenty of bands about, but the chances of the stars aligning for them going big (ie. Chvrches) are far less - the gap between the settled bands and the ones who want to go places is bigger than it has ever been.

How to solve it? Employ me as a development worker-type on decent money and I'll tell you ;)

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On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 8:32 PM, scottyboy said:

Those threads with him and either Jake or Scourge (neither of whom are around any more on here, also) are lionised on here (I think you noticed. If not indulge in more nostalgia and search more) as best-threads-ever and long-gone BANTER LADS but honesty, as a newcomer at the time, I thought them toe-curling. Especially when it got to "you don't say shit when we're going in and out of Tom's to practice!?!11" territory. But anyway.

 

If it's any consolation, I'd find them toe curling now too. I always thought the SPD/MMW back and forth should be more of a grandstanding online pantomime than anything else, but it occasionally got out of hand and the line got crossed. I never recall any cross words in the 'real world', I don't think.

In all seriousness, what Dan has said about MMW reads like a good example in what happens when you have a plan, but have to confront a 'going pro' threshold and make a choice either way. (we chose a rather different direction/methodology, of course)

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On 6/15/2018 at 6:22 PM, Scorge said:

If it's any consolation, I'd find them toe curling now too. I always thought the SPD/MMW back and forth should be more of a grandstanding online pantomime than anything else, but it occasionally got out of hand and the line got crossed. I never recall any cross words in the 'real world', I don't think.

In all seriousness, what Dan has said about MMW reads like a good example in what happens when you have a plan, but have to confront a 'going pro' threshold and make a choice either way. (we chose a rather different direction/methodology, of course)

I'll be honest having re-read a lot of them recently I just found it funny. It did occasionally cross over the line which is when it became a bit cringe - but nothing ever came of it outside of this site, like you say, and it never would have because I think we are all reasonable enough people away from a keyboard. (I can't speak for everyone else involved, but I haven't had an altercation in person since primary school, and certainly wouldn't have over silly stuff said on the internet). 

This thread - in particular Cloud's ridiculous comment below - has made me realise a certain irony about the Aberdeen scene.

"Thinking back, Jamesy didn't do himself or MMW any favours at times"

In textbook Mood-hoovering fashion, it is both opinion-presented-as-fact and completely baseless/incorrect:
13-15 years ago, platitudes of this nature were repeatedly hurled in our direction on here - often by people who I'm sure were well-meaning. Having re-read much of the content of this site from that era, it was interesting to see how many posts there were saying that Jamesy's ego/Ben's arrogance-and-on-line twattery/my bickering with SPD would hinder the band in some way... as if A&R reps would be reading this site, and/or the perception of you in Aberdeen would affect your potential for 'success'. 

Given what actually happened, I can categorically state that our antics on ab-music didn't affect things one iota. Despite being perceived as being a bunch of pillocks on here by people who didn't know us (and probably by many who did!), we were hard-working and professional away from teh interwebz, and got on great with everybody we ever met through the band. Like I said earlier in the thread, it was never my ambition to make it, and I doubt MMW were ever good enough anyway - but the only thing really holding us back from doing a lot more with the band was being based in Aberdeen.

Regarding Jamesy 'not doing himself any favours' - he moved to London and got his dream job booking/managing some huge bands and mixing in circles with many of his idols, including the Movielife - literally his favourite band who he got the phrase My Mind's Weapon from. Fortunately no one ever halted his career by bringing up the time that Cloud heard from a friend of a friend that Jamesy may or may not have said he'd kick his head in. 

I only mention all that to highlight that no-one gives a fuck about Aberdeen outside of Aberdeen, and Aberdeen itself is largely the reason why bands from here don't 'make it'. The likes of the X-Certs and Jamesy perfectly demonstrate that if you move, you can do.

 

 

Edited by Dan G

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On 6/12/2018 at 7:16 AM, scottyboy said:

If you can even get big playing metal.Something like Animals as Leaders or Periphery, maybe (I don't listen to a vast range of stuff across the heavier end of metal); who obviously aren't as big as Metallica or Linkin Park. 

It's funny you mention them  - Periphery are essentially (one of) the godfathers of djent, arguable the last trend in metal. Yet those guys don't even make money off the band, which is why they do stuff like GetGoodDrums etc. They are a leading artist in a genre, have influenced millions of kids, yet can't make money off the band because 10,000,000 streams isn't remotely the same as selling 10,000,000 records.

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On 6/11/2018 at 2:32 PM, Dan G said:

 but how many boda fide rock stars have come out in the last decade, who could live comfortably purely of releasing an album every few years and touring every now and again... Mastodon at a push? But I guess they've been established for the best part of 20 years now.

 

Ghost are the only band I can think of that might fall into that category, they're massive just now. Cant say im a fan of the new album, But they must be raking it in. the sheer amount of merch they produce is almost on par with KISS nowadays. Id imagine mr Forge is living pretty cushty off of that alone. 

 

but aye, Making a living off playing music alone is pretty much a thing of the past

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21 hours ago, AVB said:

Ghost are the only band I can think of that might fall into that category, they're massive just now. Cant say im a fan of the new album, But they must be raking it in. the sheer amount of merch they produce is almost on par with KISS nowadays. Id imagine mr Forge is living pretty cushty off of that alone. 

Yeah you're right on Ghost - I can't believe how massive they are, mostly because everything I've heard from them musically has been a bit meh. Some cracking album covers and a great logo mind you.

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Ha! aye Repugnant were decent, he did a bunch of projects but Ghost is the only one that blew up. I really liked the first album, the output since then has been patchy, some ace tunes, some terirble. I get why folk dont like em but diffrent stroeks n ah that shite. 

 

none o this has owt to do with the Deen though... back to bashing MMW? 

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56 minutes ago, AVB said:

none o this has owt to do with the Deen though... back to bashing MMW? 

I think that largely stopped around 2006-07, either coincidentally or ironically after we had owt to do with the Deen.

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5 hours ago, Teabags said:

Recently heard yer man from Ghost's old band. 1000% better.
 

 

Ah, good old fashioned Swedeath!

No one else is in the office this afternoon so time to plop on some Entombed and Dismember.

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28 minutes ago, Dan G said:

Ah, good old fashioned Swedeath!

No one else is in the office this afternoon so time to plop on some Entombed and Dismember.

Weird, immediately after listening to this Repugnant tune I stuck on Entombed too... so good!

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