2012/2013 Season Thread

[Monster Zero]

What happens when they only get division 3 revenue, the fans start dwindling

Surely this would never happen, their fans being so loyal and all?

[Adam Easy Wishes]

I see that many of the Rangers fans want to go back to division 3 so that the SPL collapses and we all suffer.

I've not actually heard anyone thinking that they can't even cover their own costs playing in the SPL with tv, sponsership and European football how will we survive in division 3?

What happens when they only get division 3 revenue, the fans start dwindling and they are stuck paying £20k a week to the likes of Whittiker as no other club will offer him that kind of money to leave?

The players will be allowed to leave for free. There will be Championship clubs willing to take these players on, and I sincerely doubt Whittaker is on £20k a week. If so, that is completely mental.

I would think if they went back to division 3 it won't be long before they are back in administration.

Even if they don't collapse themselves, what is the point working your way back up if as predicted the SPL would have collapsed without them?

Incorrect. The SPL will be just fine without Rangers. There will perhaps be a little less money floating around, but that's no bad thing IMO if it results in a more level playing field. Why should it be taken for granted that Rangers or Celtic will win the league? If this brings one half of the Old Firm back onto a par with the rest of the clubs in the SFL/SPL then it is an excellent thing.

They keep going on about how harshly the have been treated by all the other teams and the SPL/SFA.

Other than the 10 point deduction which is completely standard what else have they had?

Will the fines handed out not be wiped out with liquidation?

Transfer embargo which they took to the civil courts and won - do we know how this has been dealt with by the SFA/UEFA/FIFA yet?

They will call being punted to Division Three harsh. I really resent Rangers' blase nature over the whole thing - perhaps if they had been a little bit more humble about it all the other clubs (and their fans) wouldn't feel as strongly about getting rid.

But never forget, Lethal - their attendances in Division Three will be fine - they don't do walking away.

LOL

[Guest Gladstone]

The attitude of people involved with Rangers and a lot of the fans has been almost as bad as the mismanagement in the first place. Absolutely no grace about that team whatsoever. I hope to fuck they get punted out of the SPL and that some good will come of this sorry state of affairs. The good being that the SPL will be a more level playing field - in the first instance there will be more competition for second place and therefore more competition for European places which will do the clubs involved nothing but good - more interest in their teams, meaning more fans at the games, more revenue from playing in Europe, more chance of winning cups etc etc. Celtic will of course be miles ahead to begin with but they will be the team that suffers the most without Rangers because of all the sponsorship that goes their way as part of the Old Firm and they will gradually lose players and gradually come down closer to the level of the other clubs. They will of course still be far better off than the other teams and I think they will continue to dominate because they are managed very well financially these days. The other benefit will be the increased revenue for lower division clubs. Rangers will still have a very strong following in comparison to all the other clubs in the lower division clubs and I honestly think there will be a lot of interest generated - a sort of morbid curiosity as to what goes on in the lower divisions and of course the other clubs will all have big turnouts when Rangers come to town.

On the point of liquidation - I now understand it a bit better (I think) after watching that programme on STV last night (which was actually pretty shit). Rangers has already "liquidated" its assets. The sale to Charles Green for £5.5m was the "liquidation" and the current company Rangers Football Club plc will be wound up in due course. The new company now owns the assets and can do whatever the fuck it likes with them. I'm not sure what happens with the staff though - I think that TUPE rules (or something similar) perhaps do apply because everything under the banner of Rangers Football Club plc has been transferred to Charles Green's newco (or is at least in the process of being transferred) which will probably include the employees who will be offered new contracts which probably have to be on the same or at least broadly similar terms and they can choose whether or not to accept them.

The fixtures for next season come out on Monday, so this has to be sorted out very quickly - I'm not sure when the newco vote is going to be but surely it will need to be before the fixtures are released?

[Chris]

The SPL have already said that Rangers will be in the fixture list on Monday. One thing that bugs me is if they vote not to let Rangers in will that leave enough time to let Dundee up? Or will the SFL and SPL claim that the fixture list can't be rescheduled at such short notice? What's the options?

I guess we could just award everyone 3 points for each game they should have played against Rangers.

[Guest Gladstone]

The SPL have already said that Rangers will be in the fixture list on Monday. One thing that bugs me is if they vote not to let Rangers in will that leave enough time to let Dundee up? Or will the SFL and SPL claim that the fixture list can't be rescheduled at such short notice? What's the options?

I guess we could just award everyone 3 points for each game they should have played against Rangers.

I had a brief squint at the SPL Rules yesterday and it said something along the lines that if a club goes to the wall, then they decrease the number of clubs going down. There wasn't any mention of extra clubs coming up. I suspect they would keep in Dunfermline rather than promote Dundee.

But, yeah - this is all taking far too long. I'm pretty sure the delay tactics have all been an attempt to draw it out as long as possible to make as big a ballache as possible for everyone to vote Rangers out of the league. Fuck em. Just play an 11 team league, award everyone a 3-0 victory for the Rangers fixtures, and promote 5 teams next season to make a 16 team league.

Rangers can take a year out to give there heads a good fucking shake and start again in the Sunday Welfare League.

[Chris]

They can't keep in Dunfermline, their share in SPL ownership has already transferred to Ross County.

[Guest Gladstone]

They can't keep in Dunfermline, their share in SPL ownership has already transferred to Ross County.

But Rangers' share could transfer to Dunfermline as it could transfer to Dundee, surely?

It was a very quick look I had at the rules yesterday, but they certainly seemed more geared towards reducing the number of relegations rather than increasing the number of promotions.

Rangers will get voted in though and all of this will be academic. The cunts.

[Adam Easy Wishes]

They can't keep in Dunfermline, their share in SPL ownership has already transferred to Ross County.

But Dunfermline's right to play in the SPL at present is the same as Dundee's right to play in the SPL. Presume it wouldn't be about "retaining" them necessarily, but they'd have first dibs on coming back up.

It's pretty ridiculous that Rangers are involved in the fixtures list to be honest. As it stands Rangers Football Club does not exist. The assumption should be that they will be punted to Division Three, as per a normal situation (the sanction that without argument would have been applied to any of the SPL teams outwith the OF), not that they will retain SPL status.

Neil Doncaster is a cunt of the highest order.

[Chris]

It's pretty ridiculous that Rangers are involved in the fixtures list to be honest.

I think it's more ridiculous that Rangers get to vote to let themselves into the SPL. There's a lot of ridiculous things in this situation.

[Lethal10]

It is widely reported and accepted that Whittaker gets £20k a week. Even diehard Gers supporters are baffled by that.

Looking back in recent history, Rangers have had some low crowds for cup games and European games.

Going further back when they were not winning much in the 80s Rangers have reported average crowds of around 17,000 with crowds as low as 4500 recorded.

They used to report there was only 2500 supporters for a game against Patrick Thistle around that time but this has always been contested.

200,000 turned up to Manchester is their quest for glory, but only 10,000 turned up to Hampden in their protest for survival.

I've no doubt that there will be the original act of defiance, but the novelty will wear off after some time.

[Guest Gladstone]

Yeah - totally agree. It is fucking ridiculous. All of it.

Like you say - any other club would have been punted from a great height, with the exception of Celtic. I don't think Celtic would have been given as much leeway as Rangers though and Rangers wouldn't have backed Celtic in the same way as Celtic have backed Rangers if you get me.

There are a few Celtic minded folks moaning about the loss of the old firm fixture if Rangers get punted out. Here's a solution. Fuck off to Division 3 and play your precious old firm games there.

Ross County will then smash the back doors in of all the other SPL Clubs and win the league by 30 points.

[Guest Gladstone]

No fucking way does Whittaker get 20k a week!! Does he? No fucking way. If he does, then that's the whole debacle explained right there.

[The Milner]

But Dunfermline's right to play in the SPL at present is the same as Dundee's right to play in the SPL. Presume it wouldn't be about "retaining" them necessarily, but they'd have first dibs on coming back up.

It's pretty ridiculous that Rangers are involved in the fixtures list to be honest. As it stands Rangers Football Club does not exist. The assumption should be that they will be punted to Division Three, as per a normal situation (the sanction that without argument would have been applied to any of the SPL teams outwith the OF), not that they will retain SPL status.

Neil Doncaster is a cunt of the highest order.

Not quite, as it stands Rangers Football Club still exsists, the club has not been liquidated yet, that will take another few weeks, so technically speaking they are still part of the SPL and as such the SPL has included them in the fixtures. Also the clubs chose to go down this route, not the SPL, the other 11 clubs decided it should be discussed on club to club basis. The SPL and SFA have made many a fuck up over this, but i dont think those two points are really their problem.

Doncaster is a pleb, but the power is with the clubs, they are the ones who have to make the big decisions here, he can only mediate the meetings. I'm really not sure whats going to happen now, the chairmen are going to have to weight up whats going to make them more money, Rangers and the TV money, or supporters. Its a tough one as SPL attendances have been dropping for years, are these fans going to flock back with no Rangers? Are they going to completely desert the SPL with a Rangers included? We can all speculate that the SPL will be fine or it will go under till we're blue in the face (no pun intended) but the bottom line is no one really knows for sure one way or the other, both choices offer huge potential and huge risks for the future of our clubs, one choice could save our league, or could end it. Make no mistake our clubs finacially are shot, all of them except one or two, start taking away millions of pounds on income and its going to have to be replaced somewhere along the line. As the dons have shown this summer, we cannot compete with league 2 clubs when it comes to wages, what happens when the dons have £1m less guarenteed income for next season, do they take the risk that by note voting the huns in that todders will average 12,000 a season or do they vote them in knowing they are only going to get 8,000?

As scourge said, Milne's stance on this is going to be very very interesting, 99% of dons fans asked will apparently walk away if the dons vote in favour, yet our stadium is more than half empty every week as it stands. Milne is very rich because he makes good buisness decisions, in this case he is really between a rock and a hard place. Is it worth losing our two biggest home games of the season, in terms of corporate money and gate receipts, for sporting integrity? Is it worth losing potenitally thousdands of supporters to keep the two biggest home games of the season?

[Lethal10]

No fucking way does Whittaker get 20k a week!! Does he? No fucking way. If he does, then that's the whole debacle explained right there.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2101743/Rangers-play-free-administration.html

I'm positive it was made official what they all get during administration.

[The Milner]

Yeah - totally agree. It is fucking ridiculous. All of it.

Like you say - any other club would have been punted from a great height, with the exception of Celtic. I don't think Celtic would have been given as much leeway as Rangers though and Rangers wouldn't have backed Celtic in the same way as Celtic have backed Rangers if you get me.

There are a few Celtic minded folks moaning about the loss of the old firm fixture if Rangers get punted out. Here's a solution. Fuck off to Division 3 and play your precious old firm games there.

Ross County will then smash the back doors in of all the other SPL Clubs and win the league by 30 points.

Sorry but that is absolute shite, Celitc would have been molly coddled as much as Rangers have been, dont put the green glasses on and kid yourself.

[Guest Gladstone]

Not quite, as it stands Rangers Football Club still exsists, the club has not been liquidated yet, that will take another few weeks, so technically speaking they are still part of the SPL and as such the SPL has included them in the fixtures. Also the clubs chose to go down this route, not the SPL, the other 11 clubs decided it should be discussed on club to club basis. The SPL and SFA have made many a fuck up over this, but i dont think those two points are really their problem.

Doncaster is a pleb, but the power is with the clubs, they are the ones who have to make the big decisions here, he can only mediate the meetings. I'm really not sure whats going to happen now, the chairmen are going to have to weight up whats going to make them more money, Rangers and the TV money, or supporters. Its a tough one as SPL attendances have been dropping for years, are these fans going to flock back with no Rangers? Are they going to completely desert the SPL with a Rangers included? We can all speculate that the SPL will be fine or it will go under till we're blue in the face (no pun intended) but the bottom line is no one really knows for sure one way or the other, both choices offer huge potential and huge risks for the future of our clubs, one choice could save our league, or could end it. Make no mistake our clubs finacially are shot, all of them except one or two, start taking away millions of pounds on income and its going to have to be replaced somewhere along the line. As the dons have shown this summer, we cannot compete with league 2 clubs when it comes to wages, what happens when the dons have £1m less guarenteed income for next season, do they take the risk that by note voting the huns in that todders will average 12,000 a season or do they vote them in knowing they are only going to get 8,000?

As scourge said, Milne's stance on this is going to be very very interesting, 99% of dons fans asked will apparently walk away if the dons vote in favour, yet our stadium is more than half empty every week as it stands. Milne is very rich because he makes good buisness decisions, in this case he is really between a rock and a hard place. Is it worth losing our two biggest home games of the season, in terms of corporate money and gate receipts, for sporting integrity? Is it worth losing potenitally thousdands of supporters to keep the two biggest home games of the season?

Interestingly, I think that Rangers being in the SPL would guarantee two full houses a season at least next season for Aberdeen because everyone would want to come and point and laugh, hurl abuse, etc etc at Rangers fans and players even more so than usual.

That probably only applies to Aberdeen though - I don't think any other non-old firm team cares as much about Rangers (i.e. hates them as much) as Aberdeen.

[Guest Gladstone]

Sorry but that is absolute shite, Celitc would have been molly coddled as much as Rangers have been, dont put the green glasses on and kid yourself.

I don't have green glasses on. I dislike Celtic these days. I honestly think that history has shown that the league/SFA etc. will bendover slightly more for Rangers than it will for Celtic.

EDIT: But, Celtic would be treated more favourably than any other team outside the old firm in similar circumstances.

[Guest Gladstone]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2101743/Rangers-play-free-administration.html

I'm positive it was made official what they all get during administration.

I'm not believing it just because the Daily Mail printed it.

[The Milner]

I don't have green glasses on. I dislike Celtic these days. I honestly think that history has shown that the league/SFA etc. will bendover slightly more for Rangers than it will for Celtic.

EDIT: But, Celtic would be treated more favourably than any other team outside the old firm in similar circumstances.

In this kinda situation Celtic would have been treated exactly the same as Rangers, they both bring equal amounts of money into the leauge and hold equal amounts of voting power. This is not a Rangers vs the SPL kinda thing this is an Old Firm vs the SPL thing. There is no way we would have thrown Celtic out the league any quicker than what has happened with Rangers.

[Guest Gladstone]

In this kinda situation Celtic would have been treated exactly the same as Rangers, they both bring equal amounts of money into the leauge and hold equal amounts of voting power. This is not a Rangers vs the SPL kinda thing this is an Old Firm vs the SPL thing. There is no way we would have thrown Celtic out the league any quicker than what has happened with Rangers.

Ach you may be right actually. I can't think of anything that would have been done differently if Celtic had done exactly the same thing as Rangers and drawn this out to this stage etc.

[Alphas]

I really resent Rangers' blase nature over the whole thing

It really has been incredible. I've found it amazing that they have been arguing that the sanctions need to be proportionate and it is unfair to give them transfer bans and demotions as they have already been punished. At what point does signing players they technically can't afford, having under the table contracts with their squad, dodging taxes and shady business dealings not constitute something like harsher consequences? That £75 million tax money would only pay for schools and hospitals...no big deal really.

Hopefully at some point they choose to understand the crime before compaining about the punishment.

[The Milner]

It really has been incredible. I've found it amazing that they have been arguing that the sanctions need to be proportionate and it is unfair to give them transfer bans and demotions as they have already been punished. At what point does signing players they technically can't afford, having under the table contracts with their squad, dodging taxes and shady business dealings not constitute something like harsher consequences? That £75 million tax money would only pay for schools and hospitals...no big deal really.

Hopefully at some point they choose to understand the crime before compaining about the punishment.

Thats the really annoying thing about this, and the club is to blame, you have people in power with a bit of intellegence telling the knuckle draggers that the club has done no wrong and that this is everyone else's fault so they can cover their own arses. The knuckle draggers have no real brains of their own so they follow exactly what they are told to think and do. What Rangers have done is played on this crazy notion that the SPL has been out to get them for years, how many weekends is sportsound filled with angry huns, when the ref has denied them a pen, they all go on about the league being against them, the people in power have used this to huge benefit to them.

[Guest Gladstone]

Thats the really annoying thing about this, and the club is to blame, you have people in power with a bit of intellegence telling the knuckle draggers that the club has done no wrong and that this is everyone else's fault so they can cover their own arses. The knuckle draggers have no real brains of their own so they follow exactly what they are told to think and do. What Rangers have done is played on this crazy notion that the SPL has been out to get them for years, how many weekends is sportsound filled with angry huns, when the ref has denied them a pen, they all go on about the league being against them, the people in power have used this to huge benefit to them.

And the crazy thing is - the whole league should be against them and should have been against them for the past 20 years as they've been cheating the whole time, dodging taxes etc.

I really, really, really hope that they are told to get to fuck. We may have to build Scottish football up again and yes it will be hard but one thing's for sure, if Rangers are let back in with no fucking debt, we will be back to square one within a few years with Celtic and Rangers dominating everything, including TV deals, European football and all the rest. Rangers will be stronger than ever because they'll have a clean slate. What will then happen if Hearts goes to the wall? On what basis do the SPL clubs not let them back into the league under a newco?

[The Milner]

And the crazy thing is - the whole league should be against them and should have been against them for the past 20 years as they've been cheating the whole time, dodging taxes etc.

I really, really, really hope that they are told to get to fuck. We may have to build Scottish football up again and yes it will be hard but one thing's for sure, if Rangers are let back in with no fucking debt, we will be back to square one within a few years with Celtic and Rangers dominating everything, including TV deals, European football and all the rest. Rangers will be stronger than ever because they'll have a clean slate. What will then happen if Hearts goes to the wall? On what basis do the SPL clubs not let them back into the league under a newco?

Yeah i hope exactly the same, the only fair thing here is for them to get kicked out the league, they have brought our game to its knee's with this, and they expect us all to fall over ourselves to help them, they have very very short memories of what they have said and done as a club over recent years. Sadly fairness very rarely comes through in football.

[Flights]

Rangers should just get to fuck. The whole going to court over the transfer embargo cemented in my head how big a bunch of cunts they are. First off what are they planning to use to buy players in the next 12 months? Money? Precious minerals? Fabrics? McCoist's old boots? To me the embargo was a very very light punishment. A team with absolutely no money at all not being allowed to buy anything. They should of jumped at the chance of that!

Saying that they have a pretty big tax bill and their offer getting refused was ace-ic. The fans are a bunch of cocks as well. Their moaning the other day about the HRMC not accepting their deal was cringe worthy. Saying shit like 'The taxman buried Rangers'. Why the fuck would they accept that offer? What was it? 9p to the pound or something incredible like that? Works out Rangers would pay back 6.75 milion (that's if my maths is correct which it probably isn't and if the deal is 9p to the £) meaning HRMC would lose £68 million odd. Fuck that. That's a staggering amount of money to throw away. Especially because it's tax money. Money that would be used to run our country. Like trigger said schools and hospitals and all that jazz.

Of course the Rangers fans don't really care about that at all. Dinna want to see 'their' team have to play in 3rd division next year. They should be grateful that they are playing at fucking all! I hope HRMC show up next week and are just like 'NIT! See's our money you fucks!' We can book the bus down and watch Ibrox get turned into a block of low cost flats whilst throwing rocks at a weeping Coisty.

The quicker Rangers fuck off to the annals of footballing history the fucking better. Cunts.