The Milner Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well said Johnny. Exactly my thoughts right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 That's very true. Without Rangers we have two scenarios:Celtic powerhose everyone out of contention since they are so massiveCeltic become about as money-soaked as Hearts and the whole league becomes simultaneously very competitive and very shit. Just like Ireland's top league.I hope its the second option, its the only chance we have of re-building our league and our football in general. What we have now benefits two teams and no one else, it has to change, even if it means we suffer for a few years whilst we re-group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm a well documented Celtic fan on these boards, but I care more about Scottish football in general than I do about Celtic as a club.I'm all for Rangers going bust and either ceasing to exist or starting from Division 3 - and that's not me speaking as a Celtic fan, I'm nowhere near petty enough to just want them to go bust out of spite.I will feel sorry for every single person that loses their job that wasn't responsible for the state they've got themselves into, kitchen staff, bootcleaners, players, training staff, etc. Losing your job is a fucking nightmare, no matter how much you get paid, so from that point of view it will be a sad day if Rangers go out of business.That aside, I have no sympathy for Rangers as a football club. Someone mentions the 9 in a row they won earlier, someone on Facebook recently asked for the league titles from the 80s to be passed to Aberdeen etc etc. I also heard someone say recently that the league title this year for Celtic will always be a tainted one. I completely disagree. This will be the first season in pretty much my entire life that Rangers have been forced to play by the same rules as everyone else. Every trophy they've won in the past 20 years has been tainted because they've been living well outwith their means and buying players that not only the rest of the SPL can't afford, but players that Rangers clearly can't afford and it's came back to bite them on the arse in a massive way. Not to mention all the potentially dodgy dealings and tax avoidance schemes that may turn out to be illegal. And guess what, if Rangers go bust, that tax is never getting paid. Cunts.Someone also mentions that the Old Firm has ruined Scottish Football with their money etc. I can accept that point but only to a certain extent. Celtic whilst having more money than probably the rest of the league put together have not been cheating in the same way as Rangers have been. Celtic have won the league probably a total of about 10 times in the last 30 years (probably not even that - I'm not about to go and look it up) and that now looks like a far bigger achievement than I thought it was when you look at how Rangers have been carrying out their business.I think what will happen if/when Rangers go bust is that our league will become much more competitive. Celtic obviously have far far more money than anyone else in Scotland, but they will have to really reign in their spending if Rangers are out of the equation because sponsorship / TV deals / gate money from old firm games etc. will all be massively reduced. Celtic is run as a viable business though, so it will definitely come out of this fiasco running within its means (albeit with a level of debt as a lot of businesses do), but Celtic will definitely "come down" closer to the level of the rest of the SPL and make it more competitive. The other teams will obviously have a bit less cash too and measures will need to be taken to ensure nobody else goes out of business on the back of Rangers going bust, but that can be managed. Overall, I think Scottish football needs to look at this as a really brilliant opportunity to shake things up. The game in Scotland is currently poor and the Scottish national team has been suffering for years because of the lack of investment in youth. Teams constantly tried to "keep-up" with the Old Firm by going out and buying foreign players and playing them at the expense of good young Scottish players. The main problem was though that those players are second rate foreign players. I'm glad to say that way of life for SPL clubs isn't as bad as it used to be and a lot more young Scottish players are coming through the ranks. I really think we should bite the bullet and realise we are a small country and we've been punching way above our weight for years in terms of TV deals etc. The Old Firm gets the blame for all that is wrong with football, but then loads of fans are worried about losing the TV deals and the gate money from trips to Ibrox. You can't have it both ways. We need to go back to the days when the games are covered on a decent highlights show on Sportscene on a Saturday night. Very little live football and bring the prices down at the gates and get the fans back through the terraces. Make sure all games are on at 3pm on a Saturday when live football from the EPL etc isn't being beamed on Sky TV. That's a start. But also, get more investment in youth and bring them through the ranks. So what if the SPL is effectively an U21 league and all the best players get hived off to English Championship / PL. Then they can come on as players and it will benefit the national team./longest post in the history of ab-music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Who cares one fucking jot about Rangers when Lionel Messi is alive and well?I well hate Barca, but christ, last night was just pure demolition, made even worse by Leverkusen being as positive as they could be, needing goals to try and get through the tie, but they were pulled apart. The difference in class was just unbelievable. Gulf is an understatement. Nobody in the Champions League should be shipping 7 goals to anyone. When United stuffed Roma a few years back, it wasn't a difference in class, more like a bad day at the office, giving up too soon, and momentum for the home team. Last night was just "we are better than you" like when you were in the last year at school, and you'd take on the first years at football for a laugh, and it would end up 55-0 at the end of a 15 minute break time. Just too good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah it not like Leverkusen are mugs or terrible, Barca were just 3/4 steps ahead of them. It looks again like the only team that will beat them is themselves by having an off day. When you can afford to have a back line of 3, most likely consisting of Pique, Puyol and Mascherano and still win, you know your onto a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Who cares one fucking jot about Rangers when Lionel Messi is alive and well?I well hate Barca, but christ, last night was just pure demolition, made even worse by Leverkusen being as positive as they could be, needing goals to try and get through the tie, but they were pulled apart. The difference in class was just unbelievable. Gulf is an understatement. Nobody in the Champions League should be shipping 7 goals to anyone. When United stuffed Roma a few years back, it wasn't a difference in class, more like a bad day at the office, giving up too soon, and momentum for the home team. Last night was just "we are better than you" like when you were in the last year at school, and you'd take on the first years at football for a laugh, and it would end up 55-0 at the end of a 15 minute break time. Just too good. I was trying to discover Scotland's answer to Messi at my kids' football coaching when this was all going on - I was gutted when I heard what I'd missed...That said, I do actually think I have got Scotland's answer to Messi "on my books" at the moment. He's 10, and he's an absolutely incredible football player. The skill he's got is ridiculous. The latest thing he's started doing at training is that thing when the striker is running across goal about 5 yards out with the defenders on his tail and he just cheekily backheels it into the bottom corner when everyone's expecting the ball to go the other way. I've spent the last 18 months trying to teach him to pass because he can do everything else so brilliantly, passing is almost pointless for him because his mates often just lose the ball. If this boy sticks at it, he will be putting 5 goals past Bayer Leverkusen in the Champions League in 10 years time. He's awesome.His mate (who happens to be my nephew) is also pretty awesome but nowhere near as good as he is outfield, but he's ridiculously good in goals. In 10 years time, we could have 9 rubbish players for Scotland plus my nephew in goals and this other boy in the "Messi role" and Scotland will be winning the World Cup. Easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Someone also mentions that the Old Firm has ruined Scottish Football with their money etc. I can accept that point but only to a certain extent. Celtic whilst having more money than probably the rest of the league put together have not been cheating in the same way as Rangers have been. The problem, as I see it with the OF and money isn't that they have more than the other teams and therefore spend more, it's how they get it in the first place. TV deals, etc have been heavily biased towards those teams, which means that the gulf just gets wider and wider. It's all well and good saying that they have more fans and are more of a draw, but whe they're all over TV and their increasing financial power is making it more and more likely that they win things, that attracts a new generation of glory hunting fans every year, which means even more money and an even wider gulf. They win things, they get into Europe and they get MORE money. It's a neverending cycle and getting rid of one of the teams then flattening out the playing field so that the other SPL teams don't get shafted by TV revenues would benefit the whole league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 The problem, as I see it with the OF and money isn't that they have more than the other teams and therefore spend more, it's how they get it in the first place. TV deals, etc have been heavily biased towards those teams, which means that the gulf just gets wider and wider. It's all well and good saying that they have more fans and are more of a draw, but whe they're all over TV and their increasing financial power is making it more and more likely that they win things, that attracts a new generation of glory hunting fans every year, which means even more money and an even wider gulf. They win things, they get into Europe and they get MORE money. It's a neverending cycle and getting rid of one of the teams then flattening out the playing field so that the other SPL teams don't get shafted by TV revenues would benefit the whole league. That's a fair point, and I don't disagree at all.But, tables turned - had Aberdeen gone onto dominate in the early 90s after a good 1980s and got the same opportunities on sponsorship money / TV money etc. they would have done the same thing.I'm not saying that Celtic or Rangers were right to "take advantage" of their position but the Directors' responsibility is to promote the good of their individual company, not to promote the good of any other company/football club.It looks as if you didn't read the rest of my post because I agree that taking Rangers out of the equation will be good for Scottish football because it will result in something closer to a level playing field and I'm all for that. If it means Celtic can't compete in Europe anymore (which they barely can anyway, let's be honest...), then so be it. I'd rather the league was competitive and interesting and brought on young players etc. If that's at the same level as the league in Ireland, then fuck it, again. This level of spending etc. can't be sustained - we have to bite the bullet sooner rather than later before anyone else goes bust. Someone said further up the thread that football in England will collapse in on itself too and I've been saying that for years. The top clubs in England are effectively rich boys' playthings at the moment. They will get bored and bail out. Romanov bailed out of his other two teams recently and they went tits up. How long before he does the same to Hearts? Same goes for the billionnaires having a bit of fun in England just now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Easy Wishes Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm not saying that Celtic or Rangers were right to "take advantage" of their position but the Directors' responsibility is to promote the good of their individual company, not to promote the good of any other company/football club.But a company's responsibility also lies with promoting the industry they operate in and allowing it to thrive. Competition is healthy in any market, obviously football included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Even if Aberdeen had dominated the 90's we would never have the same fanbase available as the old firm. You could be right but its all hypothetical, lets stick to what has happened. The Old Firm has pretty much ruined Scottish football, they have overspent (and lets not forget here Celtic are in debt, just a managable debt right now) and as such other teams have overspent and look abroad for ready made talent rather than build their own. Neither of the Old Firm has really contributed great young players despite their financial advantage and so great facilities. In the last 5 years Celtic have brought through 2/3, Rangers about the same, that is shocking.The simple fact is The Old Firm couldnt give two shits about Scottish football, not even in the slightest, they have been trying to leave for years without so much as a thought about what could happen to the rest of the teams, as far as im concerned they can both fuck off, Rangers first, Celtic can go down south if they still want, although i doubt they would interest the EPL without them bringing the derby with them. Let us re-bulid what little we have here and get Scottish football back on track. Never mind TV deals or tickest from the old firm coming to town, if clubs are relying on ticket money from 4/5 games a season we're in much bigger trouble than any club is letting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 No, I read your post and agreed with the bulk of it, I just felt that point was worth clarification. It's not the OF that are primarily to blame for the situation with TV revenues, the league should have reined them in, it's just frustrating when the OF cite a lack of domestic competition as a reason why they perform poorly in Europe, when that kind of thing is exactly the reason why they have a lack of competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 See what happens when you fire BIG Mick Wolves?Your ex captain comes to training pished.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wolverhampton-wanderers/9129997/Roger-Johnson-puts-his-Wolves-future-in-doubt-after-turning-up-drunk-for-training.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam 45 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 They just need to play the U19s. Honestly, I can't see why there's such a fucking-around here. Get rid of their top earners. The league is lost, they've not got a Euro place to play for any more. Play the kids! They may end up finishing 5th or whatever, but that's no biggie if it's that vs going out of business surely?I think they are holding off on that as they are still trying to sell the club. Whoever is stupid enough to buy it will want some form of a team i'd imagine. As they said though, there could be player redundancies tomorrow if they can't get their accelerated sale or get the court order on who is due that 3.6 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Fair enough - I realise I'm not going to win any arguments that are pro- the old firm on this forum...I'm not even really trying to argue their case, I just think the anti- old firm sentiment sometimes gets in the way of any reason sometimes.For the record - I agree that the old firm has been slowly destroying all competition outside those two teams for the past 20 or so years, but the blame doesn't lie solely at their door for the mess of Scottish football. Here's one thing that should be remembered about TV money. Remember when Setanta came to town? Who were the only clubs against the Setanta deal? The Old Firm and Aberdeen wanted to go with Sky in a deal worth less in the short term but obviously didn't like how shaky an outfit Setanta were. The other 9 clubs were shortsighted by making a quick buck from the Setanta deal. Now, you could argue that that was also the Old Firm's fault because both teams put pressure on the rest of the league to try and spend more money etc. but I don't buy that shit. The other clubs should be able to see through that kind of shortsightedness. If the deal had been done with Sky instead of Setanta, it would have generated more than double the money for the league than the new deal that the SPL pushed through with Sky and ESPN when Setanta fell through. That's just one example of when the other clubs shot themselves in the foot.All I'm trying to say is that when money is on the table, a lot of football clubs don't seem willing to take a long term view and just grab what they can when it's there in front of them. Of course it is hypothetical, but if other clubs were in the same position as Celtic or Rangers, they would have taken as much money as they could in an attempt to attract better players, to try and push on and compete in Europe etc.Adam makes the point above that competition is healthy - I agree. I'm just saying that it's all fine and well as an Aberdeen supporter to sit there and call the old firm all the cunts under the sun, but IF Aberdeen had gone from strength to strength at the end of the 80s and had the ability to push on money-wise like the old firm did, I am 100% convinced that they would have gone for it, the same as any other club in the league would have done. Clubs are in competitions to try and win them. Remember when Hearts came 2nd in the league a few seasons ago? I think most folk thought that was brilliant to see Rangers down in 3rd, but it all came from a rich owner spending a shit load of money (not as much as the old firm, I know, but far more than other clubs), but that was never going to do Scottish football any good in the long run. I'm not saying that's Hearts' fault or that it isn't still the fault of the Old Firm for making more and more money - all I'm saying is that the Hearts fans were pretty happy to see their team competing and were quite happy to grab the money from the rich Russian dude to do so. Short sightedness again though because if Romanov fucks off when he's bored, Hearts will be in a very bad way. Another example is clubs being completely unwilling to extend the SPL because they didn't want to lose the gate money from the old firm games. I know that the old firm were massively in favour of a small league too, but I don't think the proposal to extend the league got much support from anyone. That would make the league far more interesting in my opinion - playing the same team 4 times a season in the league is just ridiculous.Anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mac Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Adam makes the point above that competition is healthy - I agree. I'm just saying that it's all fine and well as an Aberdeen supporter to sit there and call the old firm all the cunts under the sun, but IF Aberdeen had gone from strength to strength at the end of the 80s and had the ability to push on money-wise like the old firm did, I am 100% convinced that they would have gone for it, the same as any other club in the league would have done.That's part of the problem.... most of the teams in the league DID try to compete with Rangers and Celtic in the early 90s by splashing loads of cash they didn't have. Hence the money troubles at Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock etc etc.Hearts tried it more recently and look at the state of them now... surely only a matter of time before they too are tatties.The old firm have bled the Scottish game dry for their own benefit.As mentioned previously, they've brought barely any young talent through instead raping and pillaging every other team for their best players (often for terrible money) thus making everyone weaker. Easy to do when you are rolling in it though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 again well said man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Again - fair enough. I was but a youngster in the 90s and don't have the full knowledge of what went on back then. I probably thought money for football clubs grew on trees.I agree mostly with what the non Old Firm fans think of the Old Firm. There's no doubt that the quantity of really good players coming through the youth systems is shockingly low, but is it proportionately any worse than the rest of the league? That's a genuine question. Out of the guys in the last 20 years or so that have played at a higher level than the SPL or represented Scotland on a regular basis, has this been proportionately really low by the Old Firm? It probably has when I think about it. I'm struggling to think of any top Scottish players that actually came through the youth systems of either side of the old firm. In recent years, Alan Hutton and Alan McGregor are probably the only two. Maloney is a top talent but has never really hit the heights. McGeady has obviously done well but that hasn't benefitted Scotland. Aye - pretty shocking, so I agree with that point! I also agree with the pillaging of other clubs. I've never minded when the old firm go to other SPL clubs and buy their players if they give them regular games. I don't think it's ever in the minds (as some would suggest) that the old firm actively buys players from other SPL clubs so that they don't hurt them in future games without any intention of playing them, I think it just doesn't work out sometimes and they have bigger squads etc. I don't think that has been quite so much of an issue in recent years, because players being taken in from other clubs have mainly played first team football.And again - I do agree with most of the points, and think Rangers going away will benefit Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 See what happens when you fire BIG Mick Wolves?Your ex captain comes to training pished.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/wolverhampton-wanderers/9129997/Roger-Johnson-puts-his-Wolves-future-in-doubt-after-turning-up-drunk-for-training.htmlGet in. I don't even know why I dislike Johnson, but that is ace. Might be because he played for Brum. I've always hated them. Again, for no reason at all, but you dont need a reason for hatred in football. I hate Charlie Adam because he's fat and has shit teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Shamelessly pinched from R*****sMedia chatsite (which has made me laugh all this week) -I’m probably breaking a confidence but trying to justify to myself that I’m really just bending the line as far as I can. This has come from the insolvency guru that has explained much to me in recent days. This is what I was told – believe it or dismiss it as you wish.Hopefully word will filter through to those that need told that there are no secrets, there are no discussions that will forever remain private if Rangers do collapse. The players did not take us to this point but the supporters have a right to know which players may be about to hit the first blow in the last nail.An agreement had been reached in principle for the 75:50:25 wage cuts. Then two of our highest paid players, both out injured just now, told the Administrators that their wage cut should only be 50% as they couldn’t earn win bonuses. This despite picking up their full wages to date while on the sick and not being able to kick a ball in achieving those wins. The Administrators were angered that they were backtracking on the agreement and were ready to make them redundant and implement the agreement among the other players.Then a third, highly paid, player met with the Administrators and demanded that a £1m release clause be inserted in his contract in case “he didn’t like the new owners”. Clearly that was impossible for the Administrators to agree to – they would be writing £2m off an asset, all for the sake of saving about £300k in wages from that player between now and the summer.A fourth player decided that he could only now afford a 50% cut as he had cars to finance and debts to pay.It was following these discussions that the Administrators decided that an early sale may be preferable to what was beginning to look like the decimation in the value of the squad if four of our biggest assets were made redundant.Compare and contrast the attitudes of those four players, three of whom are massive Rangers fans, with two other players. It has been well documented that one highly paid player offered to play for nothing. That is correct. What isn’t well known is that another senior player decided that he’s made enough money from football/Rangers and that he would be prepared to walk away with nothing and probably retire.If in the next 24 hours there is no sign of a quick sale being possible, and there is no change of heart from these senior players, there will probably be massive redundancies.If Rangers do not complete their matches this season, the hypocrisy of those players will never be forgotten. Indeed their intransigence may have already engendered the sale to a newco and liquidation of the current company.I know deep down that I have broken a confidence and lost a source but I had no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonie Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I also agree with the pillaging of other clubs. I've never minded when the old firm go to other SPL clubs and buy their players if they give them regular games. I don't think it's ever in the minds (as some would suggest) that the old firm actively buys players from other SPL clubs so that they don't hurt them in future games without any intention of playing them, I think it just doesn't work out sometimes and they have bigger squads etc. I don't think that has been quite so much of an issue in recent years, because players being taken in from other clubs have mainly played first team football.I think a lack of funds has certainly affected this, because there was a period of time where, in particular, Hibs seemed to be losing a lot of players to the OF who went from first teamers to bench warmers in Glasgow. Either it was intentional or the OF clubs were TERRIBLE judges of talent.And when you compare players brought through from youth to senior, you shouldn't be expecting the same output from the OF as the rest of the sides, you should be expecting a FAR greater volume. They're in a population hotspot, have the prestige of being the 2 most succesful Scottish clubs in every young person's lifetime and have a binload more money to spend on resources. But they haven't invested in the right way, so they've cost themselves money wasting it on foreigners that they shouldn't need to be succesful. If anything, they should be bringing these guys through to first team football, selling them on down south to bring in money for the foreigners they believe they need to compete in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think a lack of funds has certainly affected this, because there was a period of time where, in particular, Hibs seemed to be losing a lot of players to the OF who went from first teamers to bench warmers in Glasgow. Either it was intentional or the OF clubs were TERRIBLE judges of talent.And when you compare players brought through from youth to senior, you shouldn't be expecting the same output from the OF as the rest of the sides, you should be expecting a FAR greater volume. They're in a population hotspot, have the prestige of being the 2 most succesful Scottish clubs in every young person's lifetime and have a binload more money to spend on resources. But they haven't invested in the right way, so they've cost themselves money wasting it on foreigners that they shouldn't need to be succesful. If anything, they should be bringing these guys through to first team football, selling them on down south to bring in money for the foreigners they believe they need to compete in Europe. I almost agree 100% - so you could say I agree 90% or 95% with this post...I think sometimes players just don't work out at either of the old firm. One prime example of this would be Derek Riordan to Celtic. I was delighted when we signed him because I thought he was brilliant. He was brilliant and obviously very talented. What Celtic hadn't factored in was how much of a dick he was. Or perhaps, Gordon Strachan just wasn't the man to manage Riordan's attitude.Saying that there have been some weird signings - Chris Killen was round about the same time as that, and I never understood why he was bought. He did okay on the handful of times he got a game, but he was always about 5th down the striking pecking order. We could have just left him where he was. I think in the last 10 years or so though, that Celtic haven't signed that many out and out benchwarmers. Particularly the ones that sometimes start out as benchwarmers but work their way into the team. I think that may be a factor as well. A player being deemed good enough by Celtic to merit buying him from another SPL club will often be one of the best players at that club. When he moves to Celtic, he won't be the best player at the club and for the first time in a few years, he has to start to really really push himself and fight for a first team place. Scott Brown was bought for over £4m but he was on the bench for quite a long time because he just hadn't been hitting form and struggled with injury. He's now club captain. I can't be arsed to go through the list, so I may be wrong, but I reckon there are far far more in recent years that have had regular first team football than have been benchwarmers. (I'm just talking about Celtic - not sure about Rangers really, but I don't think they've been as bad for this in recent years as they were in the late 90s).But - I do agree with your points on bringing talent through - they certainly should be bringing through loads of talent all the time. I think what often happens with Celtic is they do bring through loads of youngsters to about U19 level but hardly any get beyond that at Celtic and end up going elsewhere in Scotland. Others get through to the first team squad but don't break into the first team and end up looking elsewhere for first team football. Celtic regularly win the youth leagues, yet have hardly any top class youngsters making the first team. In recent years, I can think of James Forrest, Aiden McGeady, Shaun Maloney, Stephen McManus and not many others. One or two that had a few games but then disappeared. It's pretty shit really. The weird thing is, Celtic fans absolutely love it when a player breaks into the first team and they get right behind them etc. The fans would love it if we filled the first team with youth academy talent (if they were still winning obviously... - Celtic fans are fickle). If Rangers get to fuck, this will actually be a great opportunity to do just that I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOX Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Actually, posts in this thread are changing my mind on Rangers - I think I'm leaning towards "fuck 'em".I do still think that Celtic are going to be utterly loving it without Rangers, even if it makes them (however temporarily) rival-less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 It proper gets my goat when ex-pros and the like playing pundit, who get paid to now talk about football, can't pronounce players name. Graham Taylor on Channel 5 just now is unbearable. He's pronounced Llorente's name about 10 different ways so far. Double L is a Y. Yorentay. Not Lorentay. Not Lorento. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.Pat Nevin's at it now. It's basic Spanish. I bet he pronounces it Villa-real too, the fucking cretin. Pat Cretin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Pat Cretin.Wash your mouth out, son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 From the BBC Sport Website...10 SPL clubs will discuss changeThe other clubs in the Scottish Premier League, minus Celtic, will meet to discuss a possible future without Rangers"The Other Clubs" - says it all really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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