Nev Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Wow, you're so clever - try actually reading the posts before judging please. I reply in kind, if there is a sensible response, I reply with a sensible answer - if people respond like 12 year kids trying to grab attention then I dismiss them - hence the dismissal in this post (fecking 8 chars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 wow. this threads still going. hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost Of Fudge Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 could someone please just shoot this thread in the face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Saying something is 'generally' the case is not saying it is hard and fast- it means 'mostly, but not always'. Apart from anything else, Nazism is a definable ideology whereas wife-beating is a social problem- not a belief, this makes it a very bad analogy. By drawing a parallel with Nazi bands you are, in effect, tarring Wifebeater with the same brush. Guilt by association. If this is not what you intended, then use a different analogy and live by your own maxim of being careful of how you express yourself because of a perceived negative impact it may or may not have.The point I was making about the video was that it was not made to glorify domestic violence, as you suggested. It was designed to sicken and disgust you. Which it obviously did. This was also the intention of 'Nil by Mouth' which has achieved much acclaim. I'm sure Ray Winston and Cathy Burke were never accused of 'promoting domestic violence' nor has the film been censored.I would not accuse a complete stranger of lying without due cause or proof. I was suggesting that you had misread the videos intention- which was as a hard hitting image designed to appaul or shock the viewer.The point that everyone else is trying to make is that, given your interest in this subject- had you taken the time to go and see the band and talk to it's members, then perhaps you would have understood their intentions. Rather than putting the boot in before you are fully informed. You said you couldn't comment on the Ross/ Brand affair because you didn't know enough about it, but yet you comment on Wifebeater when you don't know a lot about them either. Selective.The analogy was not used to prove any of those things - and as with all analogies that work, it was an example which has similarities in the relevant parts. 'Nazi' and 'wife-beating' bands of course have many differences, however the analogy works on one level at the least (the one it was meant to show) in that they are both bands putting across a certain anti-mainstream, violence inciting idea. If something was the same on all levels, it would not be an analogy. I don't know why you assume I am claiming all these things, when none of them were mentioned, and the analogy was stated on that one level.And with all due respect, 'guilt by association' is fair enough when the analogy pointed to a similarity of such.The video I saw of them was a live one at a gig, I don't think this is what you're talking about? As for the film reference - games and films were discussed earlier in the thread, and yes of course there are many films involving domestic violence that paint it in a negative and emotionally damaging event, which can only be a good thing.As for your last paragraph - I don't really get the point of it, as it is like you haven't actually read my previous replies. I have stated, many, many times, that it is not my concern what the bands intentions were, or whether they are nice guys or complete assholes. My point, as it has been all along, is that the lack of irony in the image/music/everything to do with this band (which is suggested by the very reason for forming the band, as well as many people's view of them) is as damaging culturally, and individually as a nazi band would be on fascist views. If Nazi bands are agreed as being damaging that is? Talking to the band and realising they were just joking wouldn't have affected this view. If you see something having a bad effect, but you understand it's intentions as innocent, is it then having no effect?! No offense, but I think we seem to be having two seperate arguments. I'm debating a moral issue of the effects of this sort of band on the ethical issue they appear to be taking side swipes at, whereas you seem to be defending your friends - to which I have no intention of personally attacking, and am well aware might be perfectly nice guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboy Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Their performance at the schooner was quite an experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 yadda yaddaAre you Angry Dave in disguise per chance? Can't speak for the other three ex-members, but I personally couldn't give a fuck about your tiresome attempts at winning the internet with your oh so articulate pish. The band was a spoof from start to finish, you fell for it hook line and sinker like all the other dim-and-nae-very-bright uptight punk scene idiots who would quite happily have a mass debate with themselves in a mirror.N E X T > 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Chamber Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 could someone please just shoot Rob-86 in the face?Fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootray Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Fixed it for you.Don't be starting that. We'll have that old hag woman telling us she'll get the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootray Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 From: oldhaggardpunkwoman@hotmail.comTo: Polis@grampianpolis.comHello. I iz having problems with young punx on the internetz. Plz send back-up.kthks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Chamber Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Don't be starting that. We'll have that old hag woman telling us she'll get the police.Shit, thanks for reminding me. I forgot that's what punk is all about...Not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Are you Angry Dave in disguise per chance? Can't speak for the other three ex-members, but I personally couldn't give a fuck about your tiresome attempts at winning the internet with your oh so articulate pish. The band was a spoof from start to finish, you fell for it hook line and sinker like all the other dim-and-nae-very-bright uptight punk scene idiots who would quite happily have a mass debate with themselves in a mirror.N E X T >Erm no, I'm not particularly angry and I'm not called Dave...Just raising some points, though I realise that most people on the scene don't wanna do anything but take the piss out of folk because that is 'punk'. So I'm sorry for challenging any of your views, I hope you haven't shed too many tears.I see what you're saying - what a brilliant joke you have played. I completely forgot that behaviour, especially when involving ethical issues, should be entirely based on who you can make think you are a dick, and not the harm you can do acting like a dick. How genius. I totally fell for it, as my whole argument has of course been based around how I thought you were all sexists - not how regardless of this fact damage could be done. Well done on being right in the middle of the issue though, and yet still completely misunderstanding it!And no I wouldn't say I am particularly into the scene, unlike some I don't base my views or behaviours on what other people want me to do/ what is currently cool to do in punk bands - perhaps one day you will mature and see that too - or is not 'punk' to act responsible? Sorry I'm not very 'scene', please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartmaxwell Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 the shape of punx to come and never ever go away?zzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Erm no, I'm not particularly angry and I'm not called Dave...Just raising some points, though I realise that most people on the scene don't wanna do anything but take the piss out of folk because that is 'punk'. So I'm sorry for challenging any of your views, I hope you haven't shed too many tears.I see what you're saying - what a brilliant joke you have played. I completely forgot that behaviour, especially when involving ethical issues, should be entirely based on who you can make think you are a dick, and not the harm you can do acting like a dick. How genius. I totally fell for it, as my whole argument has of course been based around how I thought you were all sexists - not how regardless of this fact damage could be done. Well done on being right in the middle of the issue though, and yet still completely misunderstanding it!And no I wouldn't say I am particularly into the scene, unlike some I don't base my views or behaviours on what other people want me to do/ what is currently cool to do in punk bands - perhaps one day you will mature and see that too - or is not 'punk' to act responsible? Sorry I'm not very 'scene', please enlighten me.Welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Welcome back.What on earth? Who is Rune? Do you guys get a lot of folks who challenge your opinions, and then you basically piss them off to the point where they don't come back?! Must be nice to have a forum free of actual debate! What a great scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Can a moderator please explain why this thread is STILL going.All points being made are just going round in fucking circles and I'm sure everyone on here is sick of reading the same arguement over and over and over again. Can we at least have a new thread opened in the "politics and current affairs" forum? This has moved on from being just about Wifebeater and is now about so much more. And it's tiresome reading.Wifebeater are dead, and so is my wife, from a slap to the head 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busted Princess Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 me so good at teh interntz/ me know ur band better than you/me can read you mind/you not argue with me, me call you ploppy pants fixedQFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 fixedQFTHaha defensive much?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Can a moderator please explain why this thread is STILL going.All points being made are just going round in fucking circles and I'm sure everyone on here is sick of reading the same arguement over and over and over again. Can we at least have a new thread opened in the "politics and current affairs" forum? This has moved on from being just about Wifebeater and is now about so much more. And it's tiresome reading.Wifebeater are dead, and so is my wife, from a slap to the headwell stop reading then, im not trying to be a knob but if you cant be assed with the thread just ignore it, at least there is some discussing going on here for a change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 well stop reading then, im not trying to be a knob but if you cant be assed with the thread just ignore it, at least there is some discussing going on here for a change.Thats fine, but maybe move the thread then, it has become less about "music discussion" and has now become a "politics and current affairs" discussion, so it should be moved. Also, I'm sick of hearing the word Nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thats fine, but maybe move the thread then, it has become less about "music discussion" and has now become a "politics and current affairs" discussion, so it should be moved. Also, I'm sick of hearing the word Nazi.It's still music discussion though (all be it the ethical implications of), i was under the impression 'politics/current affairs' thread was for those issues unrelated to music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictishpunkgirl Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 no it wasn't a lie, if you had read the rest of this thread, you would have realised that the woman who said that is an absolute tot.The Old Haggard Punk Woman may be an absolute tot but has heard directly from the charity that they did not receive a donation from Wifebeater or any other individual and would not have accepted it in any case. So it was most certainly a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I bet nobody has ever seen Rob_86 and pictishpunkgirl in the same room at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 It's still music discussion though (all be it the ethical implications of), i was under the impression 'politics/current affairs' thread was for those issues unrelated to music?what he said, it still has revelence to music even if it has strayed a bit off the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 The Old Haggard Punk Woman may be an absolute tot but has heard directly from the charity that they did not receive a donation from Wifebeater or any other individual and would not have accepted it in any case. So it was most certainly a lie.I have heard this point external to this thread too, and find it one of the more worrying aspects of this issue that has quite often been looked over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 23, 2009 Report Share Posted March 23, 2009 I bet nobody has ever seen Rob_86 and pictishpunkgirl in the same room at the same time.So if we all speak rubbish like this filled with weird existentialist accusations, is it a certainty that the thread won't be closed?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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