Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'll make the case one more time, Please let it be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milner Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Your argument, more clearly put, is that you don't like analogies/don't see how they work. As gangster rap is a poor example compared to nazi bands! Granted, perhaps gangster rap does have a lot to answer for, but makes little sense to bring it in as an analogy in this situation.I'll make the case one more time, please read it rather than attacking it based on the fact that your mates were in the band. If a group attempts to ironically create a band promoting domestic abuse, but fails in the eyes of the masses so as it is perceived they are a band promoting domestic abuse, then they face the same moral problems as bands of other types who genuinely are promoting domestic abuse. Given there are few of these around (and none I am aware of) then it makes sense to use an analogy of a band which promotes other violence inciting ideas - ie, those who promote violence not based on gender situations in the home, but perhaps race situations (something which 'Nazi' bands do).Your point if I understand it correctly is that I should be careful so as not to tie this band under this group of nazi bands? Well to what end? Is it not better to make points, using analogies to make things clearer, so as to see the moral issue itself clearer, than to avoid making a now defunct band into sounding ' a little bit like a nazi band' or whatever? Especially when it has been made clear that it is an analogy, many times, and what the analogy is as well. Analogies have always been used in moral issues, so as to compare what is going on with values we hold, and so as to make the issue clearer. If it happens that this one makes you angry, perhaps it is because the likeness it outlines is not one you're happy with? I can not see how the analogy itself is flawed, and neither has a point as to why been bought up (except that it is unfair to compare any band to a nazi band - regardless of the analogy, which is strange given that racial and sexist values are indeed very similar in their nature and hence are a useful comparison).And this 'attack' hasn't been at all personal in intention, or from what I can see in form. I apologise to you or the guys in the band if it is thought otherwise, but I think from the way I have written you can see it is clear no personal insults/disrespect has been put across in these arguments.your wasting your time, all they care is that this is their mates bands so you cannot have a point, at least we have found someone who can say "i disagree" without a barrage of personal insults after it. You've brought up many very interesting points but unfortunately they are wated on here. Shame this is the first real discussion on music for a long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Oh wow, what an intellectual. An excellent addition to the debate, anything else to add? Just one thing - what exactly are these amazing values of yours that I am offending so? Or perhaps you could just make up some clever sounding new insults instead of replying to the question? Personally I think they make you sound really cool.(S)He's a troll. Check the linkbacks...Forumwarz- Flamebate - The Forumwarz Forums - Mmmmm! Ready for hot chocolate double-dip fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 I don't get this whole 'troll' thing, can someone please explain it?Is it just someone who uses forums to get into arguments and wind people up? to what end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 kinda spotted that a mile away, (s)he was a goon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 your wasting your time, all they care is that this is their mates bands so you cannot have a point, at least we have found someone who can say "i disagree" without a barrage of personal insults after it. You've brought up many very interesting points but unfortunately they are wated on here. Shame this is the first real discussion on music for a long time...Yeah I'm getting that jist too. Well it doesn't have to be wasted though, if someone has a point/discussion to bring up it's just important that those of us interested do post and show how irrelevant those other type of comments are. I don't think the Aberdeen scene should be berift of discussion like this, and it's a shame if there is a set of people that thinks otherwise for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 (S)He's a troll. Check the linkbacks...Forumwarz- Flamebate - The Forumwarz Forums - Mmmmm! Ready for hot chocolate double-dip fun?Kinda makes sense now...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ah it's got to this level - okay we can play 'look at the pictures' too if this discussion has got too difficult for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Complaint letter about wifebeater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Complaint letter about wifebeaterAw does someone need an output for his defensive emotions?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Aw does someone need an output for his defensive emotions?!how incisive and witty. I think perhaps you don't get the joke. again.?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Aw does someone need an output for his defensive emotions?!Seriously, you're really fucking boring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kernel Loaf Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Seriously, you're really fucking boring.Ah yes, but is he TV Tanned boring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Seriously, you're really fucking boring.how incisive and witty. I think perhaps you don't get the joke. again.?!Haha sorry guys, I forgot how this thread is for comedy geniuses, such as yourselves, only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Haha sorry guys, I forgot how this thread is for comedy geniuses, such as yourselves, onlyYeah. I can't think for myself, at all. I knew a band was ironic and don't want to argue that despite that fact, it may lead to someone growing up to become a wifebeater, for 49 pages.I'm such a fucking sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Haha sorry guys, I forgot how this thread is for comedy geniuses, I have no ballsfixed, for you my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Oh dear, I apologise to everyone for indulging the idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Oh dear, I apologise to everyone for having an empty scrotumfixed again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 In this letter, I would like to share with you some thoughts I originally organized to keep our courage up. Perhaps before going on, I should describe wifebeater to you. Wifebeater is jaundiced, distasteful, and cankered. Furthermore, it yearns to control what we do and how we do it. I repeat: If we don't shield people from wifebeater's neurotic and dour deceptions right now, then wifebeater's mind games will soon start to metastasize until they change the course of history. Although I consistently present another paradigm in opposition to wifebeater's incontinent hariolations, I do not countenance challenging wifebeater through breaking the lawto do so is fatuous, shabby, and indefensible. Wifebeater's conjectures have kept us separated for too long from the love, contributions, and challenges of our brothers and sisters in this wonderful adventure we share togetherlife! Wifebeater is not interested in what is true and what is false or in what is good and what is evil. In fact, those distinctions have no meaning to it whatsoever. The only thing that has any meaning to wifebeater is revisionism. Why? Whatever the answer, this is not Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, where the state would be eager to dismantle the family unit. Not yet, at least. But we've all heard wifebeater yammer and whine about how it's being scapegoated again, the poor dear.I assert that this makes wifebeater's antics seem uneducated and even a bit politically incorrect, even though that presupposes a dialectical intertwinement to which a polyloquent turn of mind is impervious. Even with the increasing number of misinformed pissants, wifebeater makes it sound like the most valuable skill one can have is to be able to lie convincingly. That's the rankest sort of pretense I've ever heard. The reality is that no matter how bad you think wifebeater's arguments are, I assure you that they are far, far worse than you think. We can no longer afford to do nothing about wifebeater's effete contrivances. Instead, we must strike while the iron is hot and solve the problems of credentialism, plagiarism, economic inequality, and lack of equal opportunity. Frankly, wifebeater claims to be fighting for equality. What it's really fighting for, however, is equality in degradation, by which I mean that wifebeater's plaints are based on a denial of reality, on the substitution of a deliberately falsified picture of the world in place of reality. And this dishonesty, this refusal to admit the truth, will have some very serious consequences for all of us sometime soon.An understanding of the damage that may be caused by wifebeater's disaffected jokes isn't something I expect everyone to develop the first time they hear about it. That's why I write over and over again and from so many different angles about how wifebeater has never been a big fan of freedom of speech. It supports pogroms on speech, thought, academic license, scientific perspective, journalistic integrity, and any other form of expression that gives people the freedom to state that it is easy to see faults in others. But it takes perseverance to examine wifebeater's worldview from the perspective of its axiology (values) and epistemology (ways of knowing). Let me leave you with one last thought: Wifebeater's churlish attempts to assail all that is holy are well-nigh unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 In this letter, I would like to share with you some thoughts I originally organized to keep our courage up. Perhaps before going on, I should describe wifebeater to you. Wifebeater is jaundiced, distasteful, and cankered. Furthermore, it yearns to control what we do and how we do it. I repeat: If we don't shield people from wifebeater's neurotic and dour deceptions right now, then wifebeater's mind games will soon start to metastasize until they change the course of history. Although I consistently present another paradigm in opposition to wifebeater's incontinent hariolations, I do not countenance challenging wifebeater through breaking the lawto do so is fatuous, shabby, and indefensible. Wifebeater's conjectures have kept us separated for too long from the love, contributions, and challenges of our brothers and sisters in this wonderful adventure we share togetherlife! Wifebeater is not interested in what is true and what is false or in what is good and what is evil. In fact, those distinctions have no meaning to it whatsoever. The only thing that has any meaning to wifebeater is revisionism. Why? Whatever the answer, this is not Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, where the state would be eager to dismantle the family unit. Not yet, at least. But we've all heard wifebeater yammer and whine about how it's being scapegoated again, the poor dear.I assert that this makes wifebeater's antics seem uneducated and even a bit politically incorrect, even though that presupposes a dialectical intertwinement to which a polyloquent turn of mind is impervious. Even with the increasing number of misinformed pissants, wifebeater makes it sound like the most valuable skill one can have is to be able to lie convincingly. That's the rankest sort of pretense I've ever heard. The reality is that no matter how bad you think wifebeater's arguments are, I assure you that they are far, far worse than you think. We can no longer afford to do nothing about wifebeater's effete contrivances. Instead, we must strike while the iron is hot and solve the problems of credentialism, plagiarism, economic inequality, and lack of equal opportunity. Frankly, wifebeater claims to be fighting for equality. What it's really fighting for, however, is equality in degradation, by which I mean that wifebeater's plaints are based on a denial of reality, on the substitution of a deliberately falsified picture of the world in place of reality. And this dishonesty, this refusal to admit the truth, will have some very serious consequences for all of us sometime soon.An understanding of the damage that may be caused by wifebeater's disaffected jokes isn't something I expect everyone to develop the first time they hear about it. That's why I write over and over again and from so many different angles about how wifebeater has never been a big fan of freedom of speech. It supports pogroms on speech, thought, academic license, scientific perspective, journalistic integrity, and any other form of expression that gives people the freedom to state that it is easy to see faults in others. But it takes perseverance to examine wifebeater's worldview from the perspective of its axiology (values) and epistemology (ways of knowing). Let me leave you with one last thought: Wifebeater's churlish attempts to assail all that is holy are well-nigh unforgivable.Before anyone thinks he made this up himself and thought it was funny, he copied it across from the random letter generator page linked to earlier. The random things in it must have been so funny that it was worth copying across...oh wait hang on, no. They must have been relevant somehow to this thread...no, still not it. Ah yes, the poster must be funny and intelligent on a level most grown men are unaware of. Cue some sort of childish response from any number of 'scene' people? This is such fun, we must carry it on - if only to keep you posting here instead of reproducing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbroken Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Before anyone thinks he made this up himself and thought it was funny, he copied it across from the random letter generator page linked to earlier. The random things in it must have been so funny that it was worth copying across...oh wait hang on, no. They must have been relevant somehow to this thread...no, still not it. Ah yes, the poster must be funny and intelligent on a level most grown men are unaware of. Cue some sort of childish response from any number of 'scene' people? This is such fun, we must carry it on - if only to keep you posting here instead of reproducing.sounds like something you would say to be honest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 sounds like something you would say to be honest....exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_86 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 sounds like something you would say to be honest....exactly.Well quite a few folk in this thread have understood my arguments, written back with their own and generally discussed in a respectful manner. If you find these conversations akin to the nonsensically structured paragraphs generated there, then perhaps it isn't what is written that is at fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Okay, let's do it. Let's build an inclusive, nondiscriminatory movement for social and political change. It may help if I begin my discussion by relating an innocuous story in order to illustrate my point: A few days ago I was arguing with a particularly brusque beggar who was insisting that the cure for evil is more evil. I tried to convince this tyrannical blatherskite that Mr. Rob must have recently made a huge withdrawal from the First National Bank of Lies. How else could he manage to tell us that unambitious ranters are all inherently good, sensitive, creative, and inoffensive? He does not tolerate any view that differs from his own. Rather, Mr. Rob discredits and discards those people who contradict him along with the ideas that they represent.Imagine people everywhere embracing Mr. Rob's claim that it is better that a hundred thousand people should perish than that he should be even slightly inconvenienced. The idea defies the imagination. To use some computer terminology, Mr. Rob's Praetorian Guard has an "installed base" of hundreds of the most dissolute paper-pushers you'll ever see. The implication is that no matter what else we do, our first move must be to educate everyone about how Mr. Rob is our worst nightmare. That's the first step: education. Education alone is not enough, of course. We must also identify, challenge, defy, disrupt, and, finally, destroy the institutions that trivialize the issue.Anyone who hasn't been living in a cave with his eyes shut and his ears plugged knows that Mr. Rob's op-ed pieces may have been conceived in idealism, but they quickly degenerated into snappish frotteurism. I never used to be particularly concerned about Mr. Rob's stances. Any damned fool, or so I thought, could see that Mr. Rob intends to create a new social class. Beer-guzzling, closed-minded scapegraces, debauched mob bosses, and sinister extremists will be given aristocratic status. The rest of us will be forced into serving as their brethren.Mr. Rob's threats are just a rhetorical ploy to get away from the obvious fact that Mr. Rob's like the man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. Pull back the curtain of solecism and you'll see an unsophisticated flimflammer hiding behind it, furiously pulling the levers of interventionism in a stinking attempt to replace Robert's Rules of Order with "facilitated consensus building" at all important meetings. That sort of discovery should make any sane person realize that we are observing the change in our society's philosophy and values from freedom and justice to corruption, decay, cynicism, and injustice. All of these "values" are artistically incorporated in one person: Rob.I almost forgot: If a cogent, logical argument entered Mr. Rob's brain, no doubt a concussion would result. Time cannot change Mr. Rob's behavior. Time merely enlarges the field in which Mr. Rob can, with ever-increasing intensity and thoroughness, inaugurate an era of bilious, dishonest racialism. If my memory serves me correctly, I have a tendency to report the more sensational things that he is up to, the more shocking things, things like how he wants to pass off all sorts of dour and obviously treasonous stuff on others as a so-called "inner experience". And I realize the difficulty that the average person has in coming to grips with that, but he used to complain about being persecuted. Now Mr. Rob is our primary persecutor. This reversal of roles reminds me that I avoid execrable bludgers like the plague. Let's remember that. In closing this letter, let me point out that I would be remiss if I didn't remind you that Mr. Rob can't control his desire to have everything he wants and to have it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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