Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'm not surprised by the money loss. I hear that a lot of the Deenfest-style bands have some unreal guarantees.Yeah i'd be interested to hear too, just cos i could say right away whether it was true or not. - knowing what everyone's guarantee was that day and what they got paid.also, Deenfest style band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treader. Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 i think you're fully aware what he means by "deenfest style band" tooms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 i think you're fully aware what he means by "deenfest style band" tooms...well, from bands like dividing the line or you me at six to eternal lord and shaped by fate, i'd actually say that was quite a broad spectrum bands playing modern popular music.but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treader. Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 those 4 bands arent HUGELY different from each other...but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 i think if you took a wee teeny girl who loves you me at six to go see shaped by fate they would disagree with you.or maybe by deenfest-style bands he meant bands that are currently popular and currently classed as "alternative"/"scene"? (i.e. for "scene" read "currently popular") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 i think if you took a wee teeny girl who loves you me at six to go see shaped by fate they would disagree with you.or maybe by deenfest-style bands he meant bands that are currently popular and currently classed as "alternative"/"scene"? (i.e. for "scene" read "currently popular")Yeh, but it's hardley R.E.M to Cradle of Filth different is it.Anyway, they're all kids playing shouty music. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 no i agree, wasn't trying to imply they put on bands like converge and the corrs. just saying they aren't all the same, but yes they can all fall under the title "popular/new/modern alternative music".but...is that really a point worthy of criticism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 but...is that really a point worthy of criticism?Not at all. If you build it they will come yadda yadda... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 but yes they can all fall under the title "popular/new/modern alternative music"....or "deenfest-style band"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 ok, trying to get to the point here but no one seems to be getting it.is the criticism that a promotions company is trying to put on popular bands? if so that's moderately retarded. that's like saying "topshop only sells popular clothes!" - duh. it's a supply and demand argument really. however having said that it makes them (deenfest) sound like they're after money which i know isn't the case, they just put on bands they like. sometimes make a small profit, sometimes make a loss.other styles of bands will get put on by different promoters. as those promoters will know how to PROMOTE to the people who will like the band. but i'd still like to come back to the "unreal guarantees" point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 as for Deenfest promo (not the individual "deenfest" show) i can't think of a better group in aberdeen who get people through the door. which, surely, is all you want/expect from a "promotions" company. Whether you like the bands they put on or not is moot. If people are going to the gig, then obviously there is a demand for it, ergo they were correct in the first place to book them.It should be mentioned that amount of people through the door isn't the be all and end all of success - as has been said before, the people going to the type of gigs that Deenfest put on won't be spending a huge amount at the bar. Therefore, you can't entirely judge their success on numbers as the critical factor is the bar making enough money, not the promotions company.It wouldn't surprise me if Drummonds made more from 100 people at a 18+ gig than they do at a 14+ deenfest gig that's at capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 It should be mentioned that amount of people through the door isn't the be all and end all of success - as has been said before, the people going to the type of gigs that Deenfest put on won't be spending a huge amount at the bar. Therefore, you can't entirely judge their success on numbers as the critical factor is the bar making enough money, not the promotions company.It wouldn't surprise me if Drummonds made more from 100 people at a 18+ gig than they do at a 14+ deenfest gig that's at capacity.Given that there's a bigger margin on soft-drinks than there is on alcohol i think you'd be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest funkeebassman Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 deenfestyou are all talking bollox,who gives a damn about a crappy little gig in Aberdeen,with crappy noisy bands1:up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 also if the venue has a set price for hiring out then i don't see how it's relevant, if it makes any money on the bar after that then it's a bonus!and also as i was trying to emphasise before this topic isnt about making money, as money is almost never made.furthermore any money made on the bar wouldn't go to the bands anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewarden Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 I dont think their was ever anyone saying deenfest were money grabbing bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewarden Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 also if the venue has a set price for hiring out then i don't see how it's relevant, if it makes any money on the bar after that then it's a bonus!and also as i was trying to emphasise before this topic isnt about making money, as money is almost never made.furthermore any money made on the bar wouldn't go to the bands anyway!For these points, again wasnt a dig at deenfest either.More at the the possibility that a venue turning around and saying that they dont want said gigs on due to not being viable etc., if what cloud is saying is truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gold Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 but i'd still like to come back to the "unreal guarantees" point...I'm not good with names, but I was told that some of the more popular bands (from the UK) were asking for guarantees of 600 quid plus. Even some of the smaller ones were demanding upwards of 50 upfront during their 'scottish tours'.I didn't mean 'Deenfest style bands' in a derogatory sense by the by. I'm aware that they put on a variety of stuff, and was at a loss for a decent description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 It should be mentioned that amount of people through the door isn't the be all and end all of success - as has been said before, the people going to the type of gigs that Deenfest put on won't be spending a huge amount at the bar. Therefore, you can't entirely judge their success on numbers as the critical factor is the bar making enough money, not the promotions company.It wouldn't surprise me if Drummonds made more from 100 people at a 18+ gig than they do at a 14+ deenfest gig that's at capacity.That is ENTIRELY irrelevant though. A promoter's job isn't to get people to spend money at the bar, it's to get people through the door. What they spend their money on once through the door is up to them. Furthermore I've never met a band who thought "well 150 people turned up to see us tonight - but 85% of them just bought a diet coke, therefore the gig was a complete failure".Also the less times punters visit the bar to spend 3 on pints, the more money they would potentially have to spend on band merch which would obviously be more beneficial to the bands... In addition, the kids younger than 18 are more likely to buy band shirts as they can't spend their money on booze. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 I'm not good with names, but I was told that some of the more popular bands (from the UK) were asking for guarantees of 600 quid plus. Even some of the smaller ones were demanding upwards of 50 upfront during their 'scottish tours'.50 is fuck all really. That would work out as ten pounds per band member* for a "nights work", before you consider any form of overheads e.g. petrol cost, van insurance or equipment wear and tear etc. Now if the door tax is 4, a band in question would only have to get 13 people through the door before they have made the promoter money (depending on venue hire). (on our last UK tour we were on 50-75 a night and were easily running at a loss)*although every band I've ever been in has always put any gig payment into a collective pot - there's never been enough to even vaguely consider dividing between band members! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooms Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 yeah totally, not even close. i don't think i've ever been on a tour that wasn't run on a loss. (for me anyway, i did see Enter Shikari make about infinity billion pounds a night selling tee shirts! lol)and as for deenfest, no i can say that no one got payed 600. The most any single band got paid was 400, and after that there were a few around the 200 mark then less. But I won't name names.the 4 "local" bands, beit on scottish tours or not had 60 to split between the 4 of them. (ie no profit for deenfest) deenfest arranged/agreed to give that to fears and weapon. and will be putting on a show for ASD soon as we all know they can pull a good crowd and they'll get reimbursed then I am sure. and the same i am sure is true for to catch a predator who we really enjoyed both nights we saw them play, and good lads too so i'm sure they'll be back up on a show soon and getting paid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 you are all talking bollox,who gives a damn about a crappy little gig in Aberdeen,with crappy noisy bands1:up:Given the current arguments going on in this thread... What in hell made you think it would be a good idea to post that... o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Given the current arguments going on in this thread... What in hell made you think it would be a good idea to post that... o_OBecause he's a clown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizen Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 50 is fuck all really. That would work out as ten pounds per band member* for a "nights work", before you consider any form of overheads e.g. petrol cost, van insurance or equipment wear and tear etc. Now if the door tax is 4, a band in question would only have to get 13 people through the door before they have made the promoter money (depending on venue hire). (on our last UK tour we were on 50-75 a night and were easily running at a loss)*although every band I've ever been in has always put any gig payment into a collective pot - there's never been enough to even vaguely consider dividing between band members!Im inclined to agree here to be honest. 10 a night isnt gonna get you far while trying to run a big fat van full of amps, kits and people, insuring said van, amps and kit and trying to feed yourself. And most of the bands i know that toured just slept in their van or camped out somewhere. So they clearly arnt making that much money. Lets face it, 10 years ago, 50 would have been alot to ask. Now a chippy costs a fiver...At most gigs, only really the headliner, and maybe first support will be getting payed anyway, unless the promoter decides to give the other supports a cut of the profit for their bother. So even if the headliners got 50 and the first support got 30, thats still only 16 people you need through the doors to pay the bands off. And if your paying 50 for a band, youd expect them to pull 16 people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanette Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 50 isn't a lot to ask for especially if the band don't come from Aberdeen and there's travelling involved. In fact 50 probably wouldn't even fill a van with fuel! Let alone buy a chippy for the whole band aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 At most gigs, only really the headliner, and maybe first support will be getting payed anyway, unless the promoter decides to give the other supports a cut of the profit for their bother. So even if the headliners got 50 and the first support got 30, thats still only 16 people you need through the doors to pay the bands off. And if your paying 50 for a band, youd expect them to pull 16 people...no way. at most gigs all bands should be paid. the promoter gets what's left, if they've done a good job and people are in the venue then they should have make a profit. local bands not being paid should be a rare exception to this rule(and thankfully this is the case).of course as a local support normally they're happy with enough for a round of drinks if the gig was quiet but they should be paid fairly when gigs go well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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