2007/2008 season thread

[calum]

This guy is basing a career on two good performances for the national team. I find this incredible. He's not even an outstanding performer at SPL level, so why he'd be effective in the EPL is quite beyond me. Apparently he's great going forward - but he doesn't possess the ability to pick out a pass or cross the ball. His number of assists over the past three seasons he's been playing is in single figures, I bet. Not great for an "attacking full-back".

In my opinion, all he has is aggression and workrate. He's not even lightning quick - he's just relatively pacey. Which all full-backs ought to be. There's no fucking way he's Manchester United class.

Yes. Yes yes yes.

And, Matthew, I don't think Hutton looked too clever for Italy's first goal and his "great block" from Di Natale was actually him getting hit in the back after getting caught ball watching.

I really hate the trend towards "full-backs" who are just failed wingers, or wingers in a team that doesn't use them. If they can be converted into balanced, defensively adept players (Gianluca Zambrotta is a perfect example of this) then I'm all for it, because obviously I can see the benefit of attacking full backs to stretch the game beyond a packed central midfield. Otherwise, though, I think the cost in terms of defensive instability is generally far greater than the attacking gain from players who, like Hutton, are rarely anything special going forward. The drooling over mere willingness to get forward is very, very irritating.

The following are, in my opinion, ridiculously overrated: Dani Alves, Massimo Oddo, Ashley Cole, Fabio Grosso, Wayne Bridge.

[Murrr]

Why we are consistently pursuing sub-par players like Woodgate, Elmander, Hutton, Emanuelson, Maniche etc is beyond me. They are not going to bring anything to the team that we don't already have in abundance. We do, granted, need a good, solid left back because Bale will take a while to settle in and Lee just isn't good enough.

To be honest, of all the players you've listed there I'd say Elmander and Hutton (does the management not like Chimbonda or something? I think he's a canny player) are the only ones who wouldn't improve the Spurs team. I don't think Woodgate is as good as King but I do think that on his day he's top class; a clean tackler, good leader and a cool head, pretty similar to Ledley in fact. Of course his injury record is pretty abysmal, but he did manage to stay fit for the vast majority of last season anyway. I still rate him highly after his Newcastle spell; he managed to turn around a defence that included Andy O'Brien, Titus Bramble and Olivier Bernard, that's gotta be worth something.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Urby Emanuelson is sub-par? Every time I've seen him he's been absolute class, especially going forward, and he's only 21. If you had him and Bale I think you guys would be sorted at leftback for the next 10+ years.

I was talking to a Spurs fan the other day and he reckoned you guys needed a goalkeeper, leftback, centreback, central midfielder and a left winger, what do you reckon of that assessment? Sounds about right to me, but obviously I'm not a Spurs fan *shrugs*.

You've got a great manager in though, I'm sure Tottenham will be at least sniffing around the UEFA cup places this season.

[Murrr]

Yes. Yes yes yes.

And, Matthew, I don't think Hutton looked too clever for Italy's first goal and his "great block" from Di Natale was actually him getting hit in the back after getting caught ball watching.

I really hate the trend towards "full-backs" who are just failed wingers, or wingers in a team that doesn't use them. If they can be converted into balanced, defensively adept players (Gianluca Zambrotta is a perfect example of this) then I'm all for it, because obviously I can see the benefit of attacking full backs to stretch the game beyond a packed central midfield. Otherwise, though, I think the cost in terms of defensive instability is generally far greater than the attacking gain from players who, like Hutton, are rarely anything special going forward. The drooling over mere willingness to get forward is very, very irritating.

The following are, in my opinion, ridiculously overrated: Dani Alves, Massimo Oddo, Ashley Cole, Fabio Grosso, Wayne Bridge.

If you're talking over-rated fullbacks here, you might as well throw in the Grand Daddy of them all: John Arne Riise.

[calum]

On an infinitely more important note...

Zander stays! | Aberdeen | News | Club News | Club News

YAAAS.

(I know this probably just means we'll get money for him in the summer, but still)

[Alkaline]

To be honest, of all the players you've listed there I'd say Elmander and Hutton (does the management not like Chimbonda or something? I think he's a canny player) are the only ones who wouldn't improve the Spurs team. I don't think Woodgate is as good as King but I do think that on his day he's top class; a clean tackler, good leader and a cool head, pretty similar to Ledley in fact. Of course his injury record is pretty abysmal, but he did manage to stay fit for the vast majority of last season anyway. I still rate him highly after his Newcastle spell; he managed to turn around a defence that included Andy O'Brien, Titus Bramble and Olivier Bernard, that's gotta be worth something.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Urby Emanuelson is sub-par? Every time I've seen him he's been absolute class, especially going forward, and he's only 21. If you had him and Bale I think you guys would be sorted at leftback for the next 10+ years.

I was talking to a Spurs fan the other day and he reckoned you guys needed a goalkeeper, leftback, centreback, central midfielder and a left winger, what do you reckon of that assessment? Sounds about right to me, but obviously I'm not a Spurs fan *shrugs*.

You've got a great manager in though, I'm sure Tottenham will be at least sniffing around the UEFA cup places this season.

Urby just doesn't look the part for me, Chimbonda is better. I think there are better right backs out there that would be more useful than him to be honest.

I think we need an experienced centre back and left back and a good young left winger with a bit of pace. A natural left footer would be much more appealing as all we have at the mo is Malbranque who only seems capable of cutting into the centre, though he is a good player.

I don't think we need another central midfielder really, freeing up Malbranque from the wing would add him as another option for midfield and we've already got a glut of young solid midfielders. And we don't need another goalkeeper, Robinson just needs to have a little bit more faith in his ability again as he certainly is the part on his best days in goal.

I think we should ditch bent and promote a youngster from the reserves to act as cover for Defoe, Berbatov and Keane. Tomas Pekhart would be the obvious choice, but i'm sure Simon Dawkins or Andy Barcham are more than capable too given the chance to shine.

[Jim Stax]

On an infinitely more important note...

Zander stays! | Aberdeen | News | Club News | Club News

YAAAS.

(I know this probably just means we'll get money for him in the summer, but still)

Pipped me to the post with some good news, for a change, other than Clark leaving that is

Can see him staying for a another year or so at least. Wise decision given his age and experience. Langfield or Diaomond for Vice Captainship?

Boost

[Murrr]

Urby just doesn't look the part for me, Chimbonda is better. I think there are better right backs out there that would be more useful than him to be honest.

I think we need an experienced centre back and left back and a good young left winger with a bit of pace. A natural left footer would be much more appealing as all we have at the mo is Malbranque who only seems capable of cutting into the centre, though he is a good player.

I don't think we need another central midfielder really, freeing up Malbranque from the wing would add him as another option for midfield and we've already got a glut of young solid midfielders. And we don't need another goalkeeper, Robinson just needs to have a little bit more faith in his ability again as he certainly is the part on his best days in goal.

I think we should ditch bent and promote a youngster from the reserves to act as cover for Defoe, Berbatov and Keane. Tomas Pekhart would be the obvious choice, but i'm sure Simon Dawkins or Andy Barcham are more than capable too given the chance to shine.

Fair enough; I rate Chimbonda pretty highly, thought he and Emanuelson played on opposite sides through (Chimbonda at RB, Emanuelson at LB)? Could be wrong.

I think I'm actually one of the few non-Spurs fans around that actually still rates Robinson; after the Croatia game his confidence just looks totally shot. I think a spell on the sidelines could do him well and give him the kick up the arse he clearly needs, because I do think he is a top class keeper on his day.

Pekhart is the big Czech lad, right? Not bad in FM

What do you reckon of Jenas, how's he doing for your lot? He was pretty poor in his last couple of seasons for us, Gary Speed was carrying him in the centre, but I imagine he's improved a bit since then?

[Stichman]

The 16.5 for Bent would have been better spent persuing Owen Hargreaves.

Can somebody please explain to me the mystery that is Own Hargreaves?

He was the absolute laughing stock of English football before the Word Cup. Remember the scenes of him getting booed by his own fans at the airport?

Then, at the tournament he has a couple of good games against - let's face it - pretty average opposition. I think I'd fancy my chances of putting in a good shift against Ecuador. Then, suddenly, he's one of the best midfielders in Europe.

Don't get me wrong, he's a decent player, but I'd pay about 6m absolutely maximum for him.

As for 16.5m for Bent, that was always a piss-take. Everyone in the whole world thought that was a stupid price for hime, and that's been proved the case. He's a poor man's Defoe. The only reason Spurs want rid of Defoe is because they're far too proud to admit Bent was an astronomical mistake.

[Guest idol_wild]

Can somebody please explain to me the mystery that is Own Hargreaves?

He's a well disciplined holding midfielder. And a very very good one. As good and as effective as Claude Makalele in my opinion, only more versatile and solid in the air.

He's an almost flawless footballer. I'm a big fan of his.

[Stichman]

He's an almost flawless footballer. I'm a big fan of his.

Almost flawless? Really?

There's not a chance he's as good as Makelele. He's not the best tackler in the world and he's pretty poor on the ball.

Sure, he's pretty solid, but he definetely lacks consistency. He's basically a poor man's Gattusso.

That said, he's a lot better than Carrick...

[Alkaline]

Almost flawless? Really?

There's not a chance he's as good as Makelele. He's not the best tackler in the world and I wouldn't say he reads the game particularly well.

Sure, he's pretty solid, but he definetely lacks consistency.

That said, he's a lot better than Carrick...

He was pretty consistently good for Bayern. I rate him highly as well from his Bayern days, but he's been blighted by injury for the last year or so, so it's no surprise he's lost his consistency. And he was only a laughing stock for England before the World Cup because he was played well out of position (usually right back) until that particular World Cup.

[Stichman]

He was pretty consistently good for Bayern. I rate him highly as well from his Bayern days, but he's been blighted by injury for the last year or so, so it's no surprise he's lost his consistency. And he was only a laughing stock for England before the World Cup because he was played well out of position (usually right back) until that particular World Cup.

Wasn't Martin Demichelis the first-choice holding midfielder for Bayern?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's woeful - just not worth 17m any day of the week.

He can't pass to a particularly high standard, and he can't read the game as well as Gattuso or Veira.

[Alkaline]

Fair enough; I rate Chimbonda pretty highly, thought he and Emanuelson played on opposite sides through (Chimbonda at RB, Emanuelson at LB)? Could be wrong.

I think I'm actually one of the few non-Spurs fans around that actually still rates Robinson; after the Croatia game his confidence just looks totally shot. I think a spell on the sidelines could do him well and give him the kick up the arse he clearly needs, because I do think he is a top class keeper on his day.

Pekhart is the big Czech lad, right? Not bad in FM

What do you reckon of Jenas, how's he doing for your lot? He was pretty poor in his last couple of seasons for us, Gary Speed was carrying him in the centre, but I imagine he's improved a bit since then?

Yeah, they play on opposite sides. I'm not keen on another young left back though. We have Bale for that, we need someone with more experience to take the pressure off Bale and give him time to develop a la Walcott at Arsenal, who is coming on leaps and bounds with every game he plays.

Robinson needs to have the management behind him, not belittling him in the manner they are at the moment. The players are certainly behind him. He just needs people to stop criticising every thing he does on the pitch. He must hate watching Match Of The Day etc as all they say regarding Robinson is that he flaps at corners and crosses, he never used to. You drum into someone that they're useless on a regular basis and they start to believe it themselves. If it wasn't for McLaren's ineptitude Robinson would definitely be the main focus for England's lack of Euro 2008 qualification which is a very unfair assessment of his involvement in the campaign.

Jenas is a lot better than he's given credit for, he's tireless and is good at getting forward and dropping back. He was poor at Newcastle but he's totally turned his game around and looks more like the player everyone thought he would develop into while at Forest.

Pekhart is very promising (something like 19 goals in 20 games last season for the Academy) and he's been looking good in the reserves this season too. He needs a bit of a chance though and as a target man he offers an option that Spurs lost when they sold Mido.

Dorian Dervitte is a promising centre back as well and should maybe be looked at out on a loan spell to a Championship side when he's fully fit again.

[Alkaline]

Wasn't Martin Demichelis the first-choice holding midfielder for Bayern?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's woeful - just not worth 17m any day of the week.

He can't pass to a particularly high standard, and he can't read the game as well as Gattuso or Veira.

No, Demichelis couldn't get a game in midfield past Hargreaves and Ballack. Hargreaves, after he recovered from his injury, directly replaced Ballack in midfield. Ballack played a holding role for Bayern, not as far forward as he plays for Chelsea.

[Christy]

Tremendous news about Zander. We need to keep our best players, and he falls into that category. Sorting out Lee Miller's new deal should be the next priority. The much-maligned Chris Clark will not be a big loss - we've already got Derek Young to cover. I feel a bit sorry for Michael Hart, he's a good player and clearly feels undervalued. This Plymouth/preston situation seems to make it clear that he's being pushed out the door so JC can secure a bit of cash for Diamond and Miller's new contracts.

As for Barry Nicholson - he's had a good season and will be missed. I get the feeling that if he and Seve actually liked each other, then JC might push the boat out for him a bit more. However, it seems as if he'll be on his bike in the summer rather than this month, which is good news.

Lovell should be pimped about like Hart and Clark are, maybe we could get a bit of do-re-mi for him this month.

Calderwood must stay. I can't believe that there are Dons fans who still doubt him. The job he has done at Todders has been absolutely superb, and a lot of good work will be undone if he is allowed to leave.

Love from Christy

[Guest idol_wild]

Almost flawless? Really?

There's not a chance he's as good as Makelele. He's not the best tackler in the world and he's pretty poor on the ball.

Sure, he's pretty solid, but he definetely lacks consistency. He's basically a poor man's Gattusso.

That said, he's a lot better than Carrick...

Yes. Flawless. He has no weaknesses in my book. And as for his ability on the ball, he's as composed as they come. I don't think I've ever seen him lose the ball.

Poor man's Gattusso? Hargreaves isn't a terrier of a midfielder - he's a composed, intelligent reader of the game. He knows where to be and when to be there.

[Stichman]

No, Demichelis couldn't get a game in midfield past Hargreaves and Ballack. Hargreaves, after he recovered from his injury, directly replaced Ballack in midfield. Ballack played a holding role for Bayern, not as far forward as he plays for Chelsea.

Fair enough, Demichelis plays at centre-back too doesn't he?

So would you say 17million is a fair price for the lad? He's pretty unspectacular - which I know is what holding midfielders usually are - but I think paying that sort of money for him is madness.

[Guest idol_wild]

So would you say 17million is a fair price for the lad? He's pretty unspectacular - which I know is what holding midfielders usually are - but I think paying that sort of money for him is madness.

Supply and demand though, innit.

[Stichman]

Yes. Flawless. He has no weaknesses in my book. And as for his ability on the ball, he's as composed as they come. I don't think I've ever seen him lose the ball.

Poor man's Gattusso? Hargreaves isn't a terrier of a midfielder - he's a composed, intelligent reader of the game. He knows where to be and when to be there.

No weaknesses? Come on.

Having composure and not losing possesion doesn't mean you have ability on the ball. Sure, when he gets possesion he can pass it short quite effectively, but I don't think he has any particular skill on the ball.

And no, he isn't a terrier of midfield, you're right. Which I think is a weakness. Reading the game is hugely useful up to a point, but there are times when you've got to roll your sleeves up and fight for the ball - that's not something he's particularly effective at.

Don't get me wrong, he does what he does well. But he's far from the complete player.

[Christy]

Newcastle crack me up. Why can't their fans see that this is their level? They are not a top team, and haven't been for a mighty long time. Allardyce was the best available man for the job, and now what are they going to do? Hire Shearer? McLaren? Harry Redknapp has built a good squad at Pompey, so I can't see him taking a sideways step. Give Gary Megson a call!

The Scotsman printed the Scotland managerial shortlist as follows: Tommy Burns, Mark McGhee, George Burley, Graeme Souness. McGhee and Burley are the outstanding candidates, but Burns and Penis would cost less. At least there's a wee bit of competition for the job this time, unlike when Smith and McLeish were hired.

Love from Christy

[Murrr]

Newcastle crack me up. Why can't their fans see that this is their level? They are not a top team, and haven't been for a mighty long time. Allardyce was the best available man for the job, and now what are they going to do? Hire Shearer? McLaren? Harry Redknapp has built a good squad at Pompey, so I can't see him taking a sideways step. Give Gary Megson a call!

Sammy Lee tbh.

[Christy]

Supply and demand though, innit.

....which brings us neatly back to Alan Hutton. Tottenham and (apparently) Man U are willing to pay over the odds for him because good young fullbacks are hard to come by. Look at the inflated fees paid for Ashley Cole and Gareth Bale recently. Rangers are eager to sell because they've already got an able replacement (Steven Whittaker) sitting on the bench.

Love from Christy

[calum]

No weaknesses? Come on.

Having composure and not losing possesion doesn't mean you have ability on the ball. Sure, when he gets possesion he can pass it short quite effectively, but I don't think he has any particular skill on the ball.

And no, he isn't a terrier of midfield, you're right. Which I think is a weakness. Reading the game is hugely useful up to a point, but there are times when you've got to roll your sleeves up and fight for the ball - that's not something he's particularly effective at.

Don't get me wrong, he does what he does well. But he's far from the complete player.

This just backs up my argument for having two defensive midfielders in the side

To really cut it at the highest level, unless you have the complete package like Makelele or maybe even Mascherano, given a couple of years, you need two to properly balance out the midfield. You need somebody who, like Gattuso, will rampage around and win the ball and who's capable of man-marking, but you also need somebody who'll just stand exactly where you want them all game and who, ideally, has a good range of passing, e.g. Xavi Alonso, Daniele de Rossi (who will be the best midfielder in the world) or whoever you care to name.

Or you could just go for two out and out brutes like Juventus this season

[calum]

Rangers are eager to sell because they've already got an able replacement (Steven Whittaker) sitting on the bench.

Able in as much as he's not disabled as such, yes?

[Guest idol_wild]

No weaknesses? Come on.

Having composure and not losing possesion doesn't mean you have ability on the ball. Sure, when he gets possesion he can pass it short quite effectively, but I don't think he has any particular skill on the ball.

And no, he isn't a terrier of midfield, you're right. Which I think is a weakness. Reading the game is hugely useful up to a point, but there are times when you've got to roll your sleeves up and fight for the ball - that's not something he's particularly effective at.

Don't get me wrong, he does what he does well. But he's far from the complete player.

Not being a super star on the ball is not a weakness. The fact that he is composed and picks out simple and efficient passes is all he needs to do! He's not technically gifted, but his technical ability is not in doubt. It's definitely not a weakness. If he was a forward, winger, or offensive midfielder then yes, it would be a weakness. But he's not; so it's not. You don't sign for Manchester United if you're not technically adept.

I'll argue with you on the terrier front too - Hargreaves never EVER shirks a tackle, yet he's not what you would describe as tenacious. Again, I'll compare with Makalele; he wasn't a terrier but he knew where and when to be to break up play. Hargreaves is similar.

And for the record, I never said Hargreaves was a complete player - I merely stated he has no real flaws. I'd like to point out that distinction. He has his strengths, sure, but every single 'basic' skill or attribute that a professional footballer requires, he possesses: he can kick a ball cleanly, he has a decent touch and control, he can win the ball in the air, he can pass, he has good stamina, he's not slow, he has a footballing brain, he works for the team, he can tackle. To me, that spells pretty much flawless.