jester1470 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 What's everyone's thoughts on the forthcoming AV vote. personally I don't think it's a bad thing overall, though the thought of Nick Clegg getting back in fills me with fear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistersticks Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I don't completely understand it if im honest, but it seems like if we switch to alternative voting then perhaps it could be a very easy system for the large parties to manipulate to their advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I don't completely understand it if im honest, but it seems like if we switch to alternative voting then perhaps it could be a very easy system for the large parties to manipulate to their advantage?I would have thought the opposite, AV gives more of a chance to the smaller parties who normally wouldnt have a chance of winning seats, hence why the Tories are so against it and the Lib Dems for it, it gives the smaller parties a fairer distribution theoretically, the current voting system means a party could have over 50% of the votes but less than 30% of the seats iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I don't completely understand it if im honest, but it seems like if we switch to alternative voting then perhaps it could be a very easy system for the large parties to manipulate to their advantage?I support it, and actually I think it will be better for the smaller parties, rather than for the bigger parties, are there will be less need to vote tactically. Like a few years ago in the Scottish election I really didn't want SNP to win, so I voted Labour to try and stop it happening. I didn't want to vote Labour, I wanted to vote for someone else, and I effectively chucked my own vote in the bin so I could oppose the SNP. Under the AV system at least I'll be able to vote the party I actually want, and then in that situation I could put Labour in as a second choice. Less wasted votes, less tactical voting. Though I do agree it's a little complicated and I think people may struggle with the concept.(I admit it, I wanted to vote National Front) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Won't this 'helping smaller parties' business mean that the likes of the NF or BNP will be able to get more seats though as the number of racist wankers steadily increases?xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistersticks Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Both good points there lads, i'm going to make sure i've done all my homework research before the election, it just seems like there is so much to take on board. This is a good thread; i think it's refreshing to hear about these kind of things minus the overwhelming influence of the leaflets pouring through the letter box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester1470 Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Won't this 'helping smaller parties' business mean that the likes of the NF or BNP will be able to get more seats though as the number of racist wankers steadily increases?xxQuite possibly, but if that's the will of the people who vote for them, that's what we should have to accept. If 20% of a constituency vote BNP, however abhorrent we may find their views, they should be allowed to represent those people, that's what democracy is about. If we start picking and choosing which parts to fiollow us depending on what the results are we're no better than those we complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 My golden rule is to always always do the exact opposite of what Dr John Reid wants me to do.Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'm in a safe Labour seat where Lib-Dem and SNP are usually neck and neck for second place, so this would probably be the way to remind Frank Doran that he isn't in the House of Lords.But I'm undecided. Looks like the 'no's have it, presumably as a kick Clegg proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl PhD Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The BNP is against AV. That might also help folks to make up their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The BNP is against AV. That might also help folks to make up their minds.They also have not a single seat under FPTP so that's maybe not a good case for the Yes camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Easy Wishes Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Perhaps the BNP are against AV in a reverse-psychology ploy for those whose reasoning behind not voting for AV is that the BNP (or similar) have a greater chance of getting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl PhD Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Perhaps the BNP are against AV in a reverse-psychology ploy for those whose reasoning behind not voting for AV is that the BNP (or similar) have a greater chance of getting in.Possibly, although one of the main arguments that's been put forward against AV seems to be that it's 'just not British'. Maybe the BNP see themselves as defending Britain from 'immigrant' voting systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Possibly, although one of the main arguments that's been put forward against AV seems to be that it's 'just not British'. Maybe the BNP see themselves as defending Britain from 'immigrant' voting systems.Could be, I expect we'll have to learn Polish to vote next! Stand up for Britain, stand up for VOWELS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl PhD Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I actually just checked the BNP's statement on AV and it seems that they are against AV but in favour of a fully proportional system. I suspect that they realise that very few people will give their second vote to the BNP and so they'll find it even more difficult to get any seats. So, although AV has its flaws it's perhaps a good way to have a more proportional system that doesn't benefit the BNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubbs Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 From what I understand of it, I'm happier with AV. It seems overall fairer and I feel as if I'm getting more of a say by ranking the parties, BNP obviously being the lowest. I got one of those daft No to AV leaflets, with a crappy image of Nick Clegg and lots of "BNP will win with AV"-type arguments. If anything it just reinforced my support for AV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I got one of those daft No to AV leaflets, with a crappy image of Nick Clegg and lots of "BNP will win with AV"-type arguments. If anything it just reinforced my support for AV.Hmmm...8char Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubbs Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Although I did mean to look up who it was who funded the leaflet, but I've thrown it out... does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Although I did mean to look up who it was who funded the leaflet, but I've thrown it out... does anyone know?It says "Promoted by William Norton on behalf of NO campaign Ltd." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I've yet to hear one argument against AV that makes sense/isn't completely idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think everyone should read this - Johann Hari: If you get the X Factor you'll get AV - Johann Hari, Commentators - The IndependentIf you believe some of the appalling anti-AV propaganda that's going around (ie, "the BNP will get more seats!!", etc) then you need to get your head examined.EDIT - Just to say that the concept of AV is astoundingly simple & all you need to do is be able to write 1, 2 and 3. You can manage that, can't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The Unfounded Criticisms of AV & The ‘Miserable Compromise’ Argument The Logical Conclusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 So, if you're a bit left-wing you should vote Yes and if you're a bit right-wing No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
french_disko Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 So, if you're a bit left-wing you should vote Yes and if you're a bit right-wing No?Well, is it even that simple? Both Labour & the Tories use AV to elect their leaders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Stu Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Well, is it even that simple? Both Labour & the Tories use AV to elect their leaders!They've both got pretty mediocre leaders, so I don't know if that's a great argument (for AV)Oh, I don't know, I'm all for greater representation in general, just not specifically for the British public because we're so awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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