The Official World Cup 2010 Thread

[delboy]

first world cup i remember was the 1978 final between Argentina and Holland... and all that ticker tape the Argie fans bunged on the pitch. that got me hooked!

[Woodsinho]

Wait, wait. Hang on a second. Is the president of Nigeria called Goodluck Jonothan?

Yes, yes he is. That is his real actual name. Not a joke. Like Hope Powell, manager of the England women's team.

Aspirational first names are hard to take seriously.

I may or may not remember Italia 90. I think I remember David Platt scoring and all that bit it might be that I've seen the clips so often that I've reversed engineered them into memories of the time.

Don't remember much at all from 94, because of timezones and youth meant that most games were on after my bedtime.

98 is similarly blurry outside of Scotland v Brazil and England playing Colombia and Argentina. Definitely didn't see the final because I was at Wet 'n' Wild, the indoor water slide park type place, in North Shields.

[Alphas]

1986 was the first one I remember, I was 8 at the time. I also remember that being my favourite. Maradona, Gordon Strachan's shite goal celebration, Maradona, the Hand of God, Maradona, Negrete's overhead kick (which everyone at school subsequently tried during the lunchtime games of cuppie) and there was also this bloke called Maradona.

I also completed the Panini sticker album that year...fucking yes! I reckon that is what makes World Cup's great. For the Euro's, we should all collect stickers and do online swaps. "Got, got, got, need, got...have you got the Spain foil badge?".

[Soda Jerk]

I can't remember how I coped with domestic football and waiting 7 days between games. It's been about a day and a half since the last World Cup game, and I feel just about ready to break things. Where's the football? Bring me the football.

If they scheduled only one World Cup game per day, it could last the whole summer. We'd still be on the group stages. It would be glorious.

[Guest Gladstone]

A guy at my work just told me there is some sort of rumour doing the rounds that Stevie G got John Terry's wife's sister (or was it Stevie G's wife's sister? Not sure why JT would care about that...) pregnant prior to the World Cup and the whole squad knew about it, and that was the reason for the squad being divided down the middle. They either were in the Stevie G camp or the JT camp.

I've tried to find something of this on the internet, but nothing there. No idea where he heard it from - anyone else heard similar rumours?

EDIT: found this: Gerrard and Terry fell out over scandal from Football.co.uk

There has been word of it being Gerrard's wife's sister, but it doesn't say that in this article, and the reason we haven't heard much about it is there is a press gagging order (I found that info on a different forum, so could be completely untrue!). Seems that the reason JT cares about it is that he was stripped of his captaincy for something similar but Gerrard got to remain as captain. All of that is just rumour though.

[Shaki]

1986 was the first one I remember, I was 8 at the time. I also remember that being my favourite. Maradona, Gordon Strachan's shite goal celebration, Maradona, the Hand of God, Maradona, Negrete's overhead kick (which everyone at school subsequently tried during the lunchtime games of cuppie) and there was also this bloke called Maradona.

I also completed the Panini sticker album that year...fucking yes! I reckon that is what makes World Cup's great. For the Euro's, we should all collect stickers and do online swaps. "Got, got, got, need, got...have you got the Spain foil badge?".

I remember crying because my Mum wouldn't let me stick a Paraguayan player on my lunch box (not because of some deep hatred of Paraguayans but rather that it would be better placed in the designated place in the book). I also stuck Hungary's Antal Roth in the wrong place - more tears. I also remember thinking Cha Bum Kun and David Speedie were hilarious names. Panini related tears and laughter were my only memories of Mexico 86.

Favourite World Cup was probably '98 because I was old enough to drink, Scotland were in it, I watched most of it in Italy and Zidane is God. There was also the fat Ronaldo scandal and Berkamp's goal against the Argies.

[Guest Gladstone]

I've came to this conclusion in the past couple of weeks, see what everyone thinks:

Cristiano Ronaldo is massively over-rated.

He had a wonderful season for Man Utd a couple of years ago, where he scored all those goals. Yes, it was a fantastic season and yes he is a cracking player, but does anyone think that if he'd done something similar in a different league (Spanish, Italian, German, any other league in the planet) that it would have raised some eyebrows but that would have been about it?

Everything that happens in the EPL seems to be massively spoken about, and it being the self-titled best league in the world just seems to magnify everything.

If he was as good as he's cracked up to be, he would have been the driving force behind the Portuguese team at the World Cup, but he was virtually non-existent.

I got thinking about this after hearing the World Cup commentators saying that people were looking for superstars like Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Torres, etc to shine on the world stage but they've all been disappointing. They were only speaking about English based players (Ronaldo obvioulsy isn't anymore, but the commentators seem to forget that...), and how they expected these guys to shine but they've been outdone by players like Forlan, Villa, Messi, Ozil.

I've kind of always thought this, but I've came to the conclusion that the EPL is just not as good as it's hyped up to be, and there is far less talent in it than there is in other leagues. It was highlighted massively by how shit the England team was in comparison to "an ordinary German team" as Hansen kept calling them, but that was just the English players themselves who everyone can see lack the technical ability of other countries, but then I started thinking about the hyped up foreign players in our league - I can't think of one that has shone at this World Cup. Not one.

None of this makes any difference to anyone's life, just thought I'd share my thoughts because I find it quite interesting...

[Soda Jerk]

I've came to this conclusion in the past couple of weeks, see what everyone thinks:

Cristiano Ronaldo is massively over-rated.

He had a wonderful season for Man Utd a couple of years ago, where he scored all those goals. Yes, it was a fantastic season and yes he is a cracking player, but does anyone think that if he'd done something similar in a different league (Spanish, Italian, German, any other league in the planet) that it would have raised some eyebrows but that would have been about it?

Everything that happens in the EPL seems to be massively spoken about, and it being the self-titled best league in the world just seems to magnify everything.

If he was as good as he's cracked up to be, he would have been the driving force behind the Portuguese team at the World Cup, but he was virtually non-existent.

I got thinking about this after hearing the World Cup commentators saying that people were looking for superstars like Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Torres, etc to shine on the world stage but they've all been disappointing. They were only speaking about English based players (Ronaldo obvioulsy isn't anymore, but the commentators seem to forget that...), and how they expected these guys to shine but they've been outdone by players like Forlan, Villa, Messi, Ozil.

I've kind of always thought this, but I've came to the conclusion that the EPL is just not as good as it's hyped up to be, and there is far less talent in it than there is in other leagues. It was highlighted massively by how shit the England team was in comparison to "an ordinary German team" as Hansen kept calling them, but that was just the English players themselves who everyone can see lack the technical ability of other countries, but then I started thinking about the hyped up foreign players in our league - I can't think of one that has shone at this World Cup. Not one.

None of this makes any difference to anyone's life, just thought I'd share my thoughts because I find it quite interesting...

Nein. I agree that Ronaldo is often a little blown out of proportion, but great achievements in other leagues are spoken about alot too. Not as much by British media, because it's not as relevant to us, but within circles that actually cover and speak about football, and not just Lineker and Shearer harping on about the Premier League, Messi's 40-odd goals last season in La Liga, and Suarez's 40-odd goal in a poor Dutch league for a poor Ajax side is also being hailed as quite a momentus accolades. So is Pedro being the first ever player to score a goal in six different club competitions in one season.

Ronaldo is still an incredibly gifted footballer, but he has a poor attitude, especially when it comes to being a team player and/or tracking back like a winger should do. Still, he is one of the best strikers of a football in the modern game, as well as being very good in the air and with both feet. Even Fergie conceded that Ronaldo wasn't going to play defensively whatsoever, but felt it was worth it for the goals he scored, and also assisted.

I feel the World Cup is the wrong place to rate players as individuals, as they just aren't as familiar with their team mates and systems. Messi hasn't scored yet. Rooney didn't score at all. Torres can't even play a full game. Van Persie looks uncomfortable in Holland's set up. The Ivory Coast have a line up of very good players, but none of them could perform as a unit. That doesn't mean they aren't as good as they are being made out. Ronaldo was marked out of the game, and Quieroz's tactics have been questioned since day 1. Ronaldo just doesn't turn up internationally. Alot of players haven't yet either. But you're basing this on 4 games. It'd be ridiculous to brand a player as overrated because he had played averagely for 4 games in a row domestically.

I imagine fatique comes into this alot too. I bet most of them can't wait to go on their summer jollys!

I'd also argue Tevez has had a very good World Cup so far. Not just for the spectacular goal, but his usual work ethic and attitude to the game. He's not in the Premier League yet (though he has been signed for Man Utd since May), little Javier Hernandez looks superb too, and his turn and shot against the Argies was magnificent. Park Ji Sung also goes without saying. He never stops trying and was great in the group stages. But I do also agree that there's not many. Though, as I said, there's not enough consistency to really accurately rate players on.

[Guest Gladstone]

Nein. I agree that Ronaldo is often a little blown out of proportion, but great achievements in other leagues are spoken about alot too. Not as much by British media, because it's not as relevant to us, but within circles that actually cover and speak about football, and not just Lineker and Shearer harping on about the Premier League, Messi's 40-odd goals last season in La Liga, and Suarez's 40-odd goal in a poor Dutch league for a poor Ajax side is also being hailed as quite a momentus accolades.

Ronaldo is still an incredibly gifted footballer, but he has a poor attitude, especially when it comes to being a team player and/or tracking back like a winger should do. Still, he is one of the best strikers of a football in the modern game, as well as being very good in the air and with both feet. Even Fergie conceded that Ronaldo wasn't going to play defensively whatsoever, but felt it was worth it for the goals he scored, and also assisted.

I feel the World Cup is the wrong place to rate players as individuals, as they just aren't as familiar with their team mates and systems. Messi hasn't scored yet. Rooney didn't score at all. Torres can't even play a full game. Van Persie looks uncomfortable in Holland's set up. The Ivory Coast have a line up of very good players, but none of them could perform as a unit. That doesn't mean they aren't as good as they are being made out. Ronaldo was marked out of the game, and Quieroz's tactics have been questioned since day 1. Ronaldo just doesn't turn up internationally. Alot of players haven't yet either. But you're basing this on 4 games. It'd be ridiculous to brand a player as overrated because he had played averagely for 4 games in a row domestically.

I imagine fatique comes into this alot too. I bet most of them can't wait to go on their summer jollys!

Hmmm. It's hard to disagree with that actually.

I wasn't basing the Ronaldo assessment on 4 matches. That's more a career overview really. I've seen him do some amazing things and he is clearly talented - very very talented - but I can only really remember him having one full season where he was really brilliant. I haven't seen much Spanish football since he joined, so I may be doing him a dis-service as I have heard he was really good for Madrid last season.

It was just a thought on the whole of English football - wondered what others thought. I admittedly don't read/watch any football media from across the globe, so I'm maybe way off the mark with the comment about UK based players being far more hyped than in other leagues - I guess that's our media and they'll talk more about our players.

I still think Ronaldo is over-rated. He is as good talent-wise as everyone makes him out to be, well nearly. But he was talking recently about wanting to become the best player ever to grace the game. That just isn't going to happen because he isn't as good as that. To be up with the greats you have to perform internationally as well as at club level. That's where great players from across the globe are remembered. Can you remember seeing many (if any) clips of Pele, Maradonna, Cruyff (for example) at club level? I can picture Cruyff in a Barca shirt, but if I think of him I do normally think of him in a Holland shirt, and I can only think of Pele and Maradonna in national team colours.

Ronaldo will be seen as one of the best players of this generation, but he won't be remembered as a true great in years to come unless he lights up a World Cup. Messi hasn't scored yet, but he's came very close a few times, and has been at the heart of every Argentina attack. I do get your point about the manager's tactics for Portugal though - I think Ronaldo looked fairly isolated at times, and they were a very boring team to watch (apart from the Honduras game). But Ronaldo should be capable of far more regardless of tactics - if he would stop checking himself out on the big screens and concentrate on football he might do a bit better. Saying that, he got some rough treatment from the ref against Spain and just lost interest early on. Oh - and stop shooting EVERY time he gets the ball, and wasting the few limited opportunities Portugal got.

[Guest Gladstone]

I forgot about Tevez. He's been a beast for Argentina. I'll give you that one. Hernandez isn't English based yet, so you're not getting him. He'll have that coached out of him in no time at all.

Park? Didn't see his matches, so I'm not going to give you that one. It only counts if I saw it I'm afraid...

[Shaki]

Not strictly World Cup related but relevant to our discussion the other day about football development, here is an article my mate sent me that Maurice Volz wrote in The Times a couple of years ago:

I was kicking balls before I could even walk . . . How many times do we hear footballers rolling out this old chestnut when they are talking about the extraordinary talent they think they have been blessed with? Well it certainly wasnt like that for me. I was 6 when my dad took me along to play for my local team and I was about as far from a child prodigy as youll get. I didnt have a Scooby what was going on and while I did show some talent, it was more for sitting down and building sandcastles than chasing the ball.

However, after a year or two I seemed to get quite good at football, not sandcastles and from those humble beginnings Ive ended up earning a living playing the game, and at a decent level, too.

But I was never a high-flyer as a youngster. In fact, when the scouts from the borough side came, I didnt get a look in at first. After a while I got my chance, which led to county football and then a place in the Germany youth team. Along the way there were always players who were much more talented than me. But the majority of them never made it as pros. So what defines being good enough?

Well, for a start you cant rely on talent alone. You need to know how to use it and that requires mental strength. You cant underestimate the significance of mental strength in football. On the one hand it can enable talent to shine, but on the other it can make up for a lot of technical and physical deficiencies.

A lot of guys I grew up with had bundles of natural ability but lacked focus and ended up nowhere. Weve all met the bloke down the pub who tells you who he had trials with when he was younger, all the big names he played alongside and how he was just as good but the other guy got lucky. The reality is, there is so much more to it than that. Children develop at different rates and, growing up, youve got a big advantage if youre bigger. But if youve relied on that along the way, youll soon get found out when you get near the top. Then youll have to work, and young guys whove had it easy dont always want to do that.

Theres the pressure of the big-game environment, too. Plenty of young players will dazzle on a training pitch, but stick them on the big stage and they cant hack it. And you wont get many chances to prove yourself.

But thats not to say that its all over if you get bombed as a teenager. Steve Finnan, whose place I took in the Fulham side after he was signed by Liverpool, got released by Wimbledon at 16 and dropped down to nonLeague level before working his way back up. Now hes a Champions League winner.

There are exceptions, of course those whose pure talent alone will have been obvious enough to carry them to the top. But they are a minute proportion. Im talking about the likes of Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo, Steven Gerrard and Cesc Fbregas, and less obvious ones, too, such as Mikel Arteta at Everton. Im not saying they dont have mental strength as well, but these are the individuals who, even to me as a fellow Premier League player, make the game look so easy.

At the other end of the spectrum there are those who seem to have made it in spite of their ability rather than because of it. Id be lying if I claimed Id never come up against players whove left me wondering how they manage to get paid to play. I wont name names, but couldnt hit a barn door doesnt even come close.

However, in all of this there is one crucial thing to remember, which is that football is a team game. He might be one of the best in the world, but youd never get anywhere if you had ten Ronaldos running around. A successful team is about the sum of its parts and like anything in life it takes all sorts. OK, so the flair players will always stand out, but if you can do a job, youll go a long way.

Oh, and the man is a hoot, particularly for a German:

Volzy

[Soda Jerk]

Hmmm. It's hard to disagree with that actually.

I wasn't basing the Ronaldo assessment on 4 matches. That's more a career overview really. I've seen him do some amazing things and he is clearly talented - very very talented - but I can only really remember him having one full season where he was really brilliant. I haven't seen much Spanish football since he joined, so I may be doing him a dis-service as I have heard he was really good for Madrid last season.

It was just a thought on the whole of English football - wondered what others thought. I admittedly don't read/watch any football media from across the globe, so I'm maybe way off the mark with the comment about UK based players being far more hyped than in other leagues - I guess that's our media and they'll talk more about our players.

I still think Ronaldo is over-rated. He is as good talent-wise as everyone makes him out to be, well nearly. But he was talking recently about wanting to become the best player ever to grace the game. That just isn't going to happen because he isn't as good as that. To be up with the greats you have to perform internationally as well as at club level. That's where great players from across the globe are remembered. Can you remember seeing many (if any) clips of Pele, Maradonna, Cruyff (for example) at club level? I can picture Cruyff in a Barca shirt, but if I think of him I do normally think of him in a Holland shirt, and I can only think of Pele and Maradonna in national team colours.

Ronaldo will be seen as one of the best players of this generation, but he won't be remembered as a true great in years to come unless he lights up a World Cup. Messi hasn't scored yet, but he's came very close a few times, and has been at the heart of every Argentina attack. I do get your point about the manager's tactics for Portugal though - I think Ronaldo looked fairly isolated at times, and they were a very boring team to watch (apart from the Honduras game). But Ronaldo should be capable of far more regardless of tactics - if he would stop checking himself out on the big screens and concentrate on football he might do a bit better. Saying that, he got some rough treatment from the ref against Spain and just lost interest early on. Oh - and stop shooting EVERY time he gets the ball, and wasting the few limited opportunities Portugal got.

I think Ronaldo's efforts are often a little overlooked. He was very, very good last season. When he didn't play, you could tell. There was just no drive. He and Higuain dragged them into second single handedly with a help of no one else. Ronaldo did the same for United in his huge goal scoring season, and whilst the title was won in 08/09 by the solid defence, he was still the only player capable of scoring goals. I think it's his role as a team player which lets him down, but when he can win games by himself, then it's difficult to argue whether or not that is a bad thing.

and Park was heroic. He'll be remembered along side the Cruyffs* and the Titus Brambles of this world, easily

*Jordi. Not Johan.

[Guest Gladstone]

Hammer-Sieg gegen England - Die Party in Sdafrika geht weiter! - WM-News - Bild.de

Go to about 55 seconds into the video and listen the song by the German fan. Brilliant.

[Soda Jerk]

Proper can't wait for the... oh, There's no game on tonight. Again.

I should try my hand in a bit of emotional blackmail. Stand on top of a building and demand for Blatter to bring the Brazil game forward to tonight, or I'll plunge. I could be a hero. But it could also go a bit Lethal Weapon.

[delboy]

I find it quite amusing how the EPL has been found out for the crock of overated cack it really is!

'best league in the world' hmph! It's nae even the best league in England!

Meanwhile teams who can actually play football continue to compete in the tournament, whose for the semis then? Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Uruguay I think... almost as predictable as the pundits on the MOTD sofa that!

[Paranoid Android]

. Can you remember seeing many (if any) clips of Pele, Maradonna, Cruyff (for example) at club level? I can picture Cruyff in a Barca shirt, but if I think of him I do normally think of him in a Holland shirt, and I can only think of Pele and Maradonna in national team colours.

Hmm I've heard a lot of people say that they consider Maradonna better than Pele because of his club career (basically winning serie a single handed with Napoli) so I think it is taken into account. Although I agree in general that players who don't produce any great world cup memories are not usually thought of among the all time greats.

Ronaldo's will probably have one more chance in 2014 but he just doesn't seem to do it for Portugal. His best chance of leaving a lasting impression is probably winning a few champions league titles with Madrid.

Messi has played well enough so far that if he gets one or two important goals in the remaining games he will be remembered as having a great tournament, plus he will only just be 27 at the next world cup so he has plenty of opportunities to make his mark. People speak about Zidane having a great world cup in 98 when actually he didn't do much other than get sent off before the final. Certainly nothing like his Euro 2000 levels of genius.

I can't really agree with anyone saying this has been a poor world cup. I can only assume people have wildly hyped up expectations. It's miles better than the atrocity that was 2002 and although it hasn't produced as many goals as 2006 we've already seen more exciting knock out games than there were four years ago. All we are really missing is one classic like the Germany-Italy semi-final.

So far I'd say better than 94 and 02 but not quite as good as 98 or 06

I just hope this boring Brazil team doesn't win it.

[Soda Jerk]

Hmm I've heard a lot of people say that they consider Maradonna better than Pele because of his club career (basically winning serie a single handed with Napoli) so I think it is taken into account. Although I agree in general that players who don't produce any great world cup memories are not usually thought of among the all time greats.

Ronaldo's will probably have one more chance in 2014 but he just doesn't seem to do it for Portugal. His best chance of leaving a lasting impression is probably winning a few champions league titles with Madrid.

Messi has played well enough so far that if he gets one or two important goals in the remaining games he will be remembered as having a great tournament, plus he will only just be 27 at the next world cup so he has plenty of opportunities to make his mark. People speak about Zidane having a great world cup in 98 when actually he didn't do much other than get sent off before the final. Certainly nothing like his Euro 2000 levels of genius.

I can't really agree with anyone saying this has been a poor world cup. I can only assume people have wildly hyped up expectations. It's miles better than the atrocity that was 2002 and although it hasn't produced as many goals as 2006 we've already seen more exciting knock out games than there were four years ago. All we are really missing is one classic like the Germany-Italy semi-final.

So far I'd say better than 94 and 02 but not quite as good as 98 or 06

I just hope this boring Brazil team doesn't win it.

Whoever wins it will probably be boring. It probably won't be the exciting Germans or Argies. The teams I expected to be great to watch, which were Ivory Coast, Spain and Holland, have all been quite dull. Brazil haven't been playing attractive football, but they've shown no weakness anywhere on the pitch, so if they win, it'll probably be fully deserved. IF not them, then it'll be Spain, who'll win unconvincingly by passing the ball sideways and backwards for 90 minutes. Fuck patient football.

[Guest Gladstone]

I think it's been a pretty good world cup to be honest. There are always boring games at World Cups. Always.

In my mind, the World Cups that are in my memory rate like this:

1. 1990

2. 1998

3. 2010 (so far - if the rest of the games are shit, then this will drop significantly)

4. 2002

5. 2006

6. 1994 (I barely saw any of it because of the time difference. In fact, all I really remember is Baggio's penalty miss, which was quite spectacular)

The best teams to watch have been Argentina and Germany. But I wouldn't say Brazil or Spain have been boring. They haven't been balls out attack, attack, attack attack attack, but they've moved it about well and played some really good stuff, but have added that killer touch at the right moment. Spain's last game was shit because of Portugal, but it was still quite good watching Spain toy with them. When Brazil have got a goal or two they've always started to play more like Brazil, which has been magic.

Brazil v Holland tomorrow should be a cracking game. Holland will probably have a go, which will mean Brazil can counter attack the fuckers to death.

Argentina v Germany will be the best game the world has ever seen. I predict 17-16 in Argentina's favour, with Klose scoring 13 with his head, but missing 7 one on one's with the keeper and getting a kicking from his team-mates for actually being pish at football.

Uruguay v Ghana should be another good game, and Uruguay should have too much for them.

And I think Spain will piss all over Paraguay, although Paraguay's rough tactics (every one of them is built like a fucking bear) could put Spain off their game. What they need to do is not play Torres and play that hardy fucker that came on for him in the last game and try and rough the defence up a bit.

Can't wait for tomorrow. I just hope Murray's match doesn't clash with Brazil or I'll be missing the footy! I might shift my TV from the kitchen through to the living room and pretend my living room is a pub, with tennis at one side, and football at the other. I might get drunk as well, just for authenticity.

[Soda Jerk]

And I think Spain will piss all over Paraguay, although Paraguay's rough tactics (every one of them is built like a fucking bear) could put Spain off their game. What they need to do is not play Torres and play that hardy fucker that came on for him in the last game and try and rough the defence up a bit.

Llorente. The Spanish John Carew.

[Soda Jerk]

What a game this is now, after the dreadful first half. I'd like Holland to win, but Brazil are my sweeper, and money changes everything. David Silva agrees.

[Scootray]

Fucking Brazil are fucking up my fantasy football.

[Soda Jerk]

Van Bommel could have stabbed the referee in the face, and still not get booked today.

[Woodsinho]

Gah, between me leaving work and getting home stuff happened. It was still 1-0 Brazil when I set off, how did thy do it?

[Scootray]

I hate Brazil.

[Soda Jerk]

Wesley Sneijder did it. Wesley Sneijder for the Ballon D'Or. Godlike. Better than Evra.