The Official World Cup 2010 Thread

[Paranoid Android]

eh, by any rules of the game that was a penalty. Perhaps under the rules you could say that the red card was too harsh but the penalty decision was 100% correct.

Cracking game tonight, I'm sad Cameroon lost and have gone out but they were awful against Japan and wasted a lot of chances tonight so I suppose that is what they deserve. Best game of the tournament though.

[Soda Jerk]

Prevented a 100% clear goal with his arm. The ball was going in if it didn't hit his arm, there's no two ways about that. Penalty.

[delboy]

absolute stonewall penalty, its a shit cos there's no way it was deliberate but his arm prevented a goal.

what a game tonight, Capello should make them watch that game over and over again to try inject some of the passion and desire to win we saw tonight. Sad to see Cameroon go as well as they look like they can play a bit when they put their mind to it but they paid for such a limp display against Japan.

Japan v Denmark could be a corker! havent worked out the maths of the draw but i know its winner takes all.

Took me mind of the depression of the England fiasco anyways! Looking forward to tomorrow - a david v goliath tie with Italy v New Zealand. Then Brazil v Ivory Coast! Poor old Sven, he doesn't do Brazil!

[Soda Jerk]

If you're stood on the line, you put your arms behind your back. You might even get let off if you put your arms across your chest and the ball comes off your arm, but an arm sticking out adjacent from the torso is practically playing goalkeeper.

Brazil game will be sweet. Come on Brazil. You're my only hope of winning my sweeper now we've concluded that England are mince.

[-matthEw-]

eh, by any rules of the game that was a penalty. Perhaps under the rules you could say that the red card was too harsh but the penalty decision was 100% correct.

I'm intrigued as to what rule, any rule, deems that a penalty. Or a red.

Have a read. http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2010_11_e.pdf

Prevented a 100% clear goal with his arm. The ball was going in if it didn't hit his arm, there's no two ways about that. Penalty.

Only a hand-ball if deliberate. If you believe its deliberate then you're a mentalist.

absolute stonewall penalty, its a shit cos there's no way it was deliberate but his arm prevented a goal.

I mean this in the least offensive way Del, but that's just ignorance of the rules. Don't feel bad, even all the BBC professional pundits are ignorant of the handball laws.

If you're stood on the line, you put your arms behind your back. You might even get let off if you put your arms across your chest and the ball comes off your arm, but an arm sticking out adjacent from the torso is practically playing goalkeeper.

Sorry, but Referees are given further advice telling them to look out for arms in unnatural positions as a hint to whether it was deliberate. It also specifically says that adjacent to torso is natural. Its the natural standing position for any player.

The rules may well go against common sense, which to me would mean unintentional hand balls are punishable by free-kick or penalty but no sending off or caution. However, the rules are there to be followed and they are unquestionably clear.

Fair enough the referee, in the split-second he gets to see it and make a decision, can judge it as deliberate. But in retrospect, I don't see how anyone can judge it as deliberate, and therefore a penalty.

Poor form.

[-matthEw-]

At least a couple of the ITV guys have recognised the rule absolutely hinges on it being deliberate.

[Soda Jerk]

As much as it wasn't 100% intentional, it wasn't 100% accidental either. As the shot is taken, he moves his arm significantly away from his torso as the ball comes towards him. The sending off was harsh, but the penalty is clear as day, and I think any referee that would have managed to see it would have given it.

Regardless of what the rules say, defenders are taught to put their hands behind their back, or across their chest in a situation where the ball could come at them. He's got his arms out. It's his own fault, and if his arms are out, it can easily be considered intentional, as he has made himself appear 'bigger' cross the goal line.

[-matthEw-]

As much as it wasn't 100% intentional, it wasn't 100% accidental either. As the shot is taken, he moves his arm significantly away from his torso as the ball comes towards him. The sending off was harsh, but the penalty is clear as day, and I think any referee that would have managed to see it would have given it.

Regardless of what the rules say, defenders are taught to put their hands behind their back, or across their chest in a situation where the ball could come at them. He's got his arms out. It's his own fault, and if his arms are out, it can easily be considered intentional, as he has made himself appear 'bigger' cross the goal line.

I'm not wanting to argue but the rules say its either a penalty AND a red (denying a clear goalscoring opportunity) or nothing.

But I honestly cannot see how anyone can say that wasn't 100% accidental. It's blasted at him from 8 or 9 yards. FIFA even legislate for hands by the side by classifying that as a natural position for your hands to be in.

You can think its a penalty if you want, but unless you think its a penalty because he's moved his arm deliberately towards the ball (and 99.9% of people don't seem to think that, I certainly don't), then you* think that with absolutely no basis according to the laws of the game.

For what its worth, I think its one of the most stupid rules, and I have for ages. In such a situation of accidental handball preventing a goal, it should be a penalty but no red card, even a yellow would be harsh. But, until the rules change we have to play by them > No penalty, no red card, play on.

*that's a general you, not specifically YOU. I realise you think he moves his arm significantly towards the ball.

[Paranoid Android]

Kewell was standing on the goal line with the obvious intention of using his body to block to try and block any shot heading towards that section of the goal. Since it is illegal to use an arm to block the ball he should do what he can to ensure that doesn't happen. Kewell actually us moving his arm towards the ball when it is struck and not making any attempt to keep his arms tucked in to his body or behind his back. As a result a clear a goal was prevented by the use his arm. Deliberate enough for me and if that is not a penalty there is something very wrong with the rules.

[-matthEw-]

Kewell was standing on the goal line with the obvious intention of using his body to block to try and block any shot heading towards that section of the goal. Since it is illegal to use an arm to block the ball he should do what he can to ensure that doesn't happen. Kewell actually us moving his arm towards the ball when it is struck and not making any attempt to keep his arms tucked in to his body or behind his back. As a result a clear a goal was prevented by the use his arm. Deliberate enough for me and if that is not a penalty there is something very wrong with the rules.

That may be the case. And fair enough if the consensus here is that he moves his arm towards the ball, then penalty. But I've watched countless replays and see only the beginning of movement away from the ball, fractions of a second before it hits them. But we all see these things differently. I've yet to hear one pundit or mate say he's moved towards the ball though.

To me, his arm has prevented a goal. Not the use of his arm. And that's not a foul. You can see his muscles in his arm ripple in that 'conclusive' slow-mo - suggesting his arm is limp by his side. If he was wanting to use his arm, surely he'd be prepared for it and stiffen his arm.

The idea that players should have to stand with their hands behind their back at almost all times is laughable to me. And once again, FIFA state that arm adjacent to the torso is A-OK.

Anyway, I'm just dejected and arguing about semantics. What is clear is how completely unfamiliar people generally are with the literal rules of the game when they don't appear to follow common sense.

[Soda Jerk]

Penalties and mostly free kicks are given for accidental handball all the time. It's very rare a player actually 100% intentionally handles the ball. I don't think it was 100% accidental anyway. His arm moves when the shot is taken. He moves it towards the ball and out from his torso.

Not that it matters. It was given as a penalty, and Ghana scored the penalty. I imagine Ghana would have felt more hard done by if an outfield player saved the ball off the line with his arm and nothing was given.

[Scorge]

it could end up going to lots if US and England are the same on goal difference I think!!!

It should go to penalties, that would be far more fair.....

[Paranoid Android]

If England draw 2-2 and the US 0-0, it will be decided by the drawing of lots.

[Soda Jerk]

Will they not seed it according to rankings, like they did with the World Cup Playoffs? I.e. Let the big boys through.

For some reason, we're considered big fish, despite being shite at football.

I was actually thinking about the accumulative club goals that the Argentina attack scored last season. If you combine the goals of Aguero, Tevez, Messi, Higuain, Palermo and Milito, you get 165 goals in all competitions. That doesn't even include Maxi or Di Maria, who netted an accumulative 19 between them. Nor does it include Jonas Gutierrez's 4 goals...

Absolutely ridiculous. If you combine England's (Rooney, Defoe, Heskey, Crouch, and also Lampard and Gerrard) you get a meagre 115.

[Paranoid Android]

For the World Cup tournament, FIFA uses the following criteria to rank teams in the Group Stage.

1. greatest number of points in all group matches;

2. goal difference in all group matches;

3. greatest number of goals scored in all group matches;

4. greatest number of points in matches between tied teams;

5. goal difference in matches between tied teams;

6. greatest number of goals scored in matches between tied teams;

7. drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

[Paranoid Android]

Two good finishes from Paraguay, they never looked troubled.

[MerryChristmas]

Scotland have as many wins as England in this world cup

Nederlands to win, DPR Korea to semis

[Sam 45]

New Zealand have just gone 1-0 up against Italy. The goal was wayyyyyyyy offisde.

[Guest]

Come on New Zealand! You my boys!

[Woodsinho]

The offside rule doesn't apply to minnows in major football competitions. I'm glad that the linesman remembered that subclause.

[Soda Jerk]

Italy look under as much pressure to perform as England, according to their media, which seems to be just as scrutinising as ours, if not worse.

Even as shit as we are, if we were to be drawn against them, I reckon we could still have them.

[Sam 45]

Italy look under as much pressure to perform as England, according to their media, which seems to be just as scrutinising as ours, if not worse.

Even as shit as we are, if we were to be drawn against them, I reckon we could still have them.

They've started playing a lot better as the game has gone on. Can't see England troubling them at all.

[Sam 45]

Apparently the French team refused to train today and the team director has gone home. Domenech deserves a medal for how he handles his team.

[Soda Jerk]

They've started playing a lot better as the game has gone on. Can't see England troubling them at all.

Yeah, as I typed that, they started playing alright. Looks terrible in the opening minutes though.

Looking at the NZ replay, doesn't look like it comes off the head of a NZ player, so perhaps not offside, but a fully legitimate goal!

[Paranoid Android]

I think it did just come off the New Zealand player but it was such a close call that you can't really blame the assistant ref. Penalty was one of those that technically was a foul but 99% of the time isn't called.

I expect Italy will still go through with a win over Slovakia who have shown very little.

At least unlike England or France, Italy did show some real desire to score and created some chances.

The situation within the French team seems like a complete shambles, at least it might give something to the home fans to cheer in the next game.