fat people

[ashhh]

christ, the venom towards overweight people in this thread is horrid. who cares? let people live their own lives, if they want to be fat then so what, it's actually none of your business. keeping mcdonalds in business? great, more trade = more workers = less unemployed. have to buy 2 seats on a plane? fine, that's a financial cost they have to bear, not you. i'm sure it's all very nice being at an ideal weight, but weight doesn't come off overnight so if you are significantly overweight it's going to be a long time before you are anything else other than obese.

[Alkaline]

If you break down it down to the lowest common denominator, the point of animal existance is to procreate.

How do you traditionally procreate? Dick in fanny, cum - of course. But beyond the literal mechanics of reproduction...:

a) by actually being alive for long enough to do so. (Not suffering a fried-breakfast-between-snacks induced heart attack at the age of 32 helps here)

b) by being attractive to the opposite sex.

c) by being physically able to fit your genetalia in someone else's without wheelbarrow loads of guts getting in the way.

People who have become morbidly obese due to their own doing* are not doing themselves any favours in any of those categories. If I choose to cut my dick off, I wouldn't expect any sympathy.

*we are not talking about every fat person here. This isn't the grey-area large people. I'm talking about the black and white 'you eat fish suppers for breakfast and lunch, and drive to the shops that are only a 2-minute walk away' types.

Anyone who has weight problems for any medical condition or such like genuinely has my full sympathy.

Furthermore, if the people who made themselves massive due to their own laziness and greed didn't exist, then there would be a lot more sympathy, resources and awareness to help and not judge so harshly those that have serious weight issues from medical reasons etc.

I don't buy the whole procreation slant as larger women and men are viewed as being sexually attractive in certain cultures. It's also seen as a form of status. The human race will not die out because of that as there are and still will be people that find fat or larger people attractive. Just because you and i don't find them attractive doesn't mean other people won't.

[John.]

I don't buy the whole procreation slant as larger women and men are viewed as being sexually attractive in certain cultures. It's also seen as a form of status. The human race will not die out because of that as there are and still will be people that find fat or larger people attractive. Just because you and i don't find them attractive doesn't mean other people won't.

Well then! She's all yours!

Dan was refering to people who are disgusting overweight up to the point in which they are limiting themselves to what they can do due to their food obsession as opposed to run-of-the-mill fat.

[Alkaline]

Well then! She's all yours!

Dan was refering to people who are disgusting overweight up to the point in which they are limiting themselves to what they can do due to their food obsession as opposed to run-of-the-mill fat.

Congratulations on missing the point numbnuts.

[Dan G]

I don't buy the whole procreation slant as larger women and men are viewed as being sexually attractive in certain cultures. It's also seen as a form of status. The human race will not die out because of that as there are and still will be people that find fat or larger people attractive. Just because you and i don't find them attractive doesn't mean other people won't.

True but in certain cultures, people think that sticking bits of bark in your lips is a great idea, or that suicide bombing is acceptable if you're killing people of a different religion. But generally people think that shit is retarded.

And as for the fat-attraction thing, I was making a generalisation that I'm sure is relatively accurate. Some people think Cheryl Cole is a munter, but the majority of folk would bang her 7 ways til sunday.

In all honesty I think it wouldn't be too long before the human race would die out or at least greatly diminish if everyone was the size of this:

[Soda Jerk]

This thread is fucking stupid.

[Alkaline]

True but in certain cultures, people think that sticking bits of bark in your lips is a great idea, or that suicide bombing is acceptable if you're killing people of a different religion. But generally people think that shit is retarded.

And as for the fat-attraction thing, I was making a generalisation that I'm sure is relatively accurate. Some people think Cheryl Cole is a munter, but the majority of folk would bang her 7 ways til sunday.

In all honesty I think it wouldn't be too long before the human race would die out or at least greatly diminish if everyone was the size of this:

Yet again it depends on circumstance.

Is that because people are told that Cheryl Cole is attractive or is it because they actually find her attractive?

What your average man or woman find attractive body shape-wise has changed dramatically over the last couple of centuries so who's to say it wouldn't change again with different generations. Plump or curvy women were regarded to be a lot more attractive than stick thin women even as closely as 50 years ago (Marilyn Monroe, Jane Mansfield etc), in the modern media they would be deemed too fat in favour of bags of skin and bone like Cheryl Cole or Victoria Beckham.

Maybe it would be better if the human race diminished a little.

[Dan G]

This thread is fucking stupid.

To be fair, half the stuff on this site can be viewed as fucking stupid. Or at the very least highly irrelevant.

If the topic of whether 'being fat is acceptable' was a non-issue, then there wouldn't be so many people concerned about it, and there wouldn't be billions of tv programmes on the subject.

I just think it's been dealt with in slightly the wrong way in this thread, and certainly got off on the wrong foot.

[Soda Jerk]

Squabbling about fat people is certainly stupider than any other thread at the moment. Especially as minds have already been made up. No amount of waffling on is going to make someone sit up and say "Oh, you're right. Fat people are fine then"

[Le Stu]

I don't understand why this thread wasn't immediately recognised as a joke.

[Alkaline]

Squabbling about fat people is certainly stupider than any other thread at the moment. Especially as minds have already been made up. No amount of waffling on is going to make someone sit up and say "Oh, you're right. Fat people are fine then"

There's less squabbling now that the idiots have had their fun and backed off a mile or resorted to posting "funny" pictures. I see this as more of a constructive discussion now with people making valid point on both sides.

I don't understand why this thread wasn't immediately recognised as a joke.

Oh, it is a joke. Just not a good one.

[Le Stu]

Alkaline is a true hero of the fatties, endlessly crusading for their rights in really crappy threads.

[Dan G]

Yet again it depends on circumstance.

Is that because people are told that Cheryl Cole is attractive or is it because they actually find her attractive?

What your average man or woman find attractive body shape-wise has changed dramatically over the last couple of centuries so who's to say it wouldn't change again with different generations. Plump or curvy women were regarded to be a lot more attractive than stick thin women even as closely as 50 years ago (Marilyn Monroe, Jane Mansfield etc), in the modern media they would be deemed too fat in favour of bags of skin and bone like Cheryl Cole or Victoria Beckham.

Maybe it would be better if the human race diminished a little.

I think that's dodging the point somewhat. I still find slightly curvier woman far more attractive than bags of bones like those you mentioned. Cheryl Cole I think is quite pretty, but in my opinion she'd look far better if she was a little heavier. I find underweight is as relatively unattractive as overweight.

But again, this isn't 'plump' woman Phil... it's people three times the size of people. I'm not having an argument about being a little overweight or cuddly or whatever.

Ask yourself this honestly; if for everytime you got on a bus/train/plane, or stood at the front row of a gig, or went to a football match or whatever... would you honestly not care if every time the two people sitting either side of you were the same size as the women in that photo?

Although I totally agree with you about it being better if the human race diminished a little. And i'd much rather start by culling neds and general scum than fat people. BY A LONG WAY.

There's less squabbling now that the idiots have had their fun and backed off a mile or resorted to posting "funny" pictures. I see this as more of a constructive discussion now with people making valid point on both sides.

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

For want of a better phrase it's not always as black and white as that. Depression, genetics, culture, illness, disabilty etc can all be factors that affect peoples weight.

Good Point, especially culture. Society is full of conflicting messages eg Be all you can be, consume all you can vs LookLikeAStickLookLikeAStickLookLikeAStick from shleb mags etc. Equally it is no surprise that we live in a greedy society, as in the 80s it was made perfectly clear that people without money and status are worthless, and that things such as the milk of human kindness were for losers or worse, Michael Foot. So we get what we deserve, as always, example below.

Don't you feel that the more tolerant you are though, the more people expect from you?

Et voila.

I'm still patenting the Gut Bukket though.

[Dan G]

Squabbling about fat people is certainly stupider than any other thread at the moment. Especially as minds have already been made up. No amount of waffling on is going to make someone sit up and say "Oh, you're right. Fat people are fine then"

So stupid you keep reading it 12 pages in.

I'm not calling anyone a smelly willyhead for disagreeing with me, neither is Alkaline.

We could start some more threads about wrestling and computer games instead if you want?

[Dan G]

Society is full of conflicting messages eg Be all you can be, consume all you can vs LookLikeAStickLookLikeAStickLookLikeAStick from shleb mags etc.

Very true. Unfortunately this only highlights to me how increasingly stupid the average population is.

People not smart enough to figure out that trying to look like Kate Moss, Vicky Beckham or Amy Winehouse is retarded... and the same goes for frequently buying the supersize portions because a nice shiny advert and 20p off says so.

[DJ Jo-D]

Very true. Unfortunately this only highlights to me how increasingly stupid the average population is.

People not smart enough to figure out that trying to look like Kate Moss, Vicky Beckham or Amy Winehouse is retarded... and the same goes for frequently buying the supersize portions because a nice shiny advert and 20p off says so.

Maybe some aren't as stoopid and in the words of Grange hill Just saying NO to being as stick think as these "role models" then they get slated for being overweight

your only really winning if you happy with yourself.....(sounding a bit too much like a frickin councillor here)

[DJ Jo-D]

thread aside...I love that pic! not so serious cat anymore lol!

[Alkaline]

I think that's dodging the point somewhat. I still find slightly curvier woman far more attractive than bags of bones like those you mentioned. Cheryl Cole I think is quite pretty, but in my opinion she'd look far better if she was a little heavier. I find underweight is as relatively unattractive as overweight.

But again, this isn't 'plump' woman Phil... it's people three times the size of people. I'm not having an argument about being a little overweight or cuddly or whatever.

Not really. Think about population dynamics and evolution. Say for example there is some sort of worldwide event that means that ridiculously fat people are suddenly in possession of the most desireable genetic traits, people's perception of what was and wasn't attractive would change quite quickly in terms of procreation (needs must etc.) Then the gene pool would lean heavily (no pun intended, honest) towards those particular genetic traits and the population may only consist of larger people with shorter lifespans. Stranger things have happened.

I think also if you were to casually ask someone from 150 years ago (where's my flux capacitor?) whether they thought interracial sexual/personal relationships was an attractive prospect they would probably poo poo the idea as ridiculous, whereas now it is commonly (and rightly so) socially acceptable. Who's to say that obesity or the larger form might not have the same fate. Just because it's socially and sexually frowned upon to be obese or fat these days that it might not be a desireable trait 150 years from now? Social attitudes change dramatically over time.

Ask yourself this honestly; if for everytime you got on a bus/train/plane, or stood at the front row of a gig, or went to a football match or whatever... would you honestly not care if every time the two people sitting either side of you were the same size as the women in that photo?

Couldn't give a shit if they were. I might feel a little bit uncomfortable but in a lot of cases i could move if i wanted to. They are as entitled to be doing whatever they like in those circumstances as i am.

I have been accused of not being able to argue, but i'd like to think that i'm not arguing just putting across a different point of view.

[Dan G]

Not really. Think about population dynamics and evolution. Say for example there is some sort of worldwide event that means that ridiculously fat people are suddenly in possession of the most desireable genetic traits

Like a worldwide famine? Or a who can sweat the most whilst doing the least contest? It would be FAR more likely that a global event would occur that means that only fit and healthy people would survive - as intelligence and athleticism are pretty much the two greatest attributes for surival.

And really all the above only holds about as much weight as saying; "maybe at some point in the future aliens will invade and vaporise everyone apart from ginger people with moustaches and top hats".

Bringing in hypothetical situations isn't much use to someone who is repulsed by fat people now (I don' t mean me, I'm just trying to debate the health and social benefits of not looking like a family photograph on your own).

Try telling an amputee or homeless person to cheer up because in a century's time, there's a small possibility that not having all your limbs/a house is cool and desirable....

Just because it's socially and sexually frowned upon to be obese or fat these days that it might not be a desireable trait 150 years from now? Social attitudes change dramatically over time.

Then in 150 years from now we can rehold this debate But in the right here right now, fat people are certainly not in possession of the most desireable genetic traits. Especially as most of the time, it isn't genetic.

We probably can't go that much further in this debate (I'm not just saying that so I get the last word in ). But it has been a pleasure 'squabbling' with you sir. *doffs cap*

[Alkaline]

We probably can't go that much further in this debate (I'm not just saying that so I get the last word in ). But it has been a pleasure 'squabbling' with you sir. *doffs cap*

Only worrying about the here and now is part of the reason why a lot of fat people are fat (the enjoyment of food and no longterm thought about the consequences) so the human race cannot afford to take a short-sighted view of anything.

Survival of the fittest doesn't mean fittest in terms of just being more athletic or intelligent. Fittest doesn't mean fit, it's about whatever attributes lend themselves to particular environments and being fat or obese could be a positive attribute in any number of environmental and social situations. Population genetics was one of the areas i actually liked in my degree.

Modern science and thought should have an eye on the future rather than treading water and over analysing the past.

You're right though, i've enjoyed debating with you and it's helped drag me through a day when i've been suffering 30.8 celcius heat at work and little or no customer interaction. I'm sure neither of us will get a last word on this thread unless someone closes it

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Not really. Think about population dynamics and evolution. Say for example there is some sort of worldwide event that means that ridiculously fat people are suddenly in possession of the most desireable genetic traits, people's perception of what was and wasn't attractive would change quite quickly in terms of procreation (needs must etc.) Then the gene pool would lean heavily (no pun intended, honest) towards those particular genetic traits and the population may only consist of larger people with shorter lifespans. Stranger things have happened.

Why come you don't got a tattoo?

Ah, the good old Idiocracy Theory of Human Genetics. I saw Idiocracy, and the terrible vision of the future that it contained horrified me...

...it was pretty funny though, but based on a skewed interpretation of heredity, as is your postulation.

It would be pretty funny watching a game of football from such a hypothetical future, just big guys bumping into each other...

...just like Rugby.

[Alkaline]

Why come you don't got a tattoo?

Ah, the good old Idiocracy Theory of Human Genetics. I saw Idiocracy, and the terrible vision of the future that it contained horrified me...

...it was pretty funny though, but based on a skewed interpretation of heredity, as is your postulation.

It would be pretty funny watching a game of football from such a hypothetical future, just big guys bumping into each other...

...just like Rugby.

Skewed in what sense? The sense that you have a different opinion on it in relation to mine. Or an otherwise informed sense?

Your whole post reads like your first sentence... o_O

[The Kernel Loaf]

Thread summary:

Alkaline:

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Ultimate TL : DR moment.

/thread

[Dan G]

Only worrying about the here and now is part of the reason why a lot of fat people are fat (the enjoyment of food and no longterm thought about the consequences) so the human race cannot afford to take a short-sighted view of anything.

Absoutely true. Although the second half of that sentence makes it sound like you are agreeing that being fat is not a good thing(?)

Survival of the fittest doesn't mean fittest in terms of just being more athletic or intelligent. Fittest doesn't mean fit, it's about whatever attributes lend themselves to particular environments and being fat or obese could be a positive attribute in any number of environmental and social situations. Population genetics was one of the areas i actually liked in my degree.

We're into a slightly blurry territory there... I agree that there may be scenarios in environmental or social situations where being fat could happen to be a positive attribute, but I would definitely argue that there are far, far more situations wear being fat is a hinderance.

Everything from: 95% of sports, to riding in a plane, to going to Alton Towers, to walking up 5 flights of stairs, to getting in and out of someone els's smallish car, to running to catch a train/bus, to applying for a job.

On that last note I've heard more than one employer (not necessarily my employers) say that they would employ an average build person over a fat person if they are equally skilled. Even to me, that is sad but unfortunately true. (and this would probably also be the same when replacing fat with super skinny, as it all comes down to the perception of health really)

Modern science and thought should have an eye on the future rather than treading water and over analysing the past.

*ahem*

Plump or curvy women were regarded to be a lot more attractive than stick thin women even as closely as 50 years ago...

I know what you mean though.

You're right though, i've enjoyed debating with you and it's helped drag me through a day when i've been suffering 30.8 celcius heat at work and little or no customer interaction. I'm sure neither of us will get a last word on this thread unless someone closes it

Would be disappointing if a thread got closed for two people being polite to each other whilst having different opinions on wrong people. Sorry, large people.

And yeah... it was fucking hot today. I was actually uncomfortable in the office, for the first time since summer 2006. Ball soup.