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The only people hung up on social class nowadays are those who consider themselves 'lower class', and have a massive chip on their shoulder about it.

Fucking do something about it rather than moaning to me that I've 'had it easy' because I had my own bedroom at my Ma's house when I was growing up.

Discuss. 8-)

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It's not easy to get out of your lower/working class status. All very well saying get a job etc, but people who are stuck living in a 'deprived' part of a town will always live there, mainly because they'll never be able to afford to buy a house or even privately let somewhere.

Council properties are often in not very nice parts of town, there are often many many family links in the area, and to be honest, they've got every right to moan about the condition of their homes and the fact that they have to have 4 kids in one bedroom because there's no suitable properties. And the right to moan that the council won't fix problems when they say they do.

I think social class is more obvious today than it ever way. I can visit families at work and just walk down the street going into a few houses. Doesn't happen in the 'nicer' parts of Falkirk.

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The only people hung up on social class nowadays are those who consider themselves 'lower class', and have a massive chip on their shoulder about it.

Fucking do something about it rather than moaning to me that I've 'had it easy' because I had my own bedroom at my Ma's house when I was growing up.

Discuss. 8-)

Uh-oh, middle-class guilt.

:up:

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...fact that they have to have 4 kids in one bedroom because there's no suitable properties.

They could, you know, do what the evil 'middle class' do and only have as many kids as they can afford to feed and house in a suitable manner. God forbid they show some responsibility and only have 2 children instead of 4 if they can't afford to house another 2. Nah, it's fine, just bitch until someone else improves your avoidable circumstances for you.

Class as a discussion is still valid in Britain, class as an excuse is just like any other excuse, a lazy way to avoid actually doing something.

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I know someone who has the biggest chip on his working shoulders. As a consequence he disdains almost everything in existence which doesn't re-affirm what he already believes about the world. As Shamikazee said above, I think it's a lazy way to justify not improving his situation. Quite tragic, I've never met someone so static, tedious and unengaging. And when, after some laughs and a few drinks he quipped 'you think cos you speak well it means you're better,' I knew it was only semi-joking. He clings onto the fact he spent a couple of years at RGU and tries to insert it into conversation with newcomers.

Of course hierarchies exist, though I'm not sure to what extent terms like 'working' or 'upper' class have the same relevance in modern society that they had in the 19th century.

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All very well saying get a job etc, but people who are stuck living in a 'deprived' part of a town will always live there, mainly because they'll never be able to afford to buy a house or even privately let somewhere.

How about get an education and then seek employment with a salary which will be able to support your ambitions?

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Guest Tam o' Shantie
The only people hung up on social class nowadays are those who consider themselves 'lower class', and have a massive chip on their shoulder about it.

Fucking do something about it rather than moaning to me that I've 'had it easy' because I had my own bedroom at my Ma's house when I was growing up.

Discuss. 8-)

controversial 8o

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For future quick reference...

1) 'Class' as in Marxist Historical materialism is defined by how you earn your money...

- If you don't own the fruits of your labour (alienation from your work)

- Particularly if you get an hourly wage

- Double so if you're salaried rather than freelance

2) Education, oportunity etc. was associated with class but doesn't define it - they were merely a by product of the class system.

3) Your class is as emotional as it is social (see alienation from your work).

4) The class system describes a person, not defines them.

Class only matters to people who feel that they are in the wrong one.

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They could, you know, do what the evil 'middle class' do and only have as many kids as they can afford to feed and house in a suitable manner.

Crisps are getting expensive you know, using the empty bag with an elastic band as contraception is now eating into the 40 Mayfair a day budget and so it's cling film from Aldi all the way, which is not as reliable a pregnancy deterrent.

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Crisps are getting expensive you know, using the empty bag with an elastic band as contraception is now eating into the 40 Mayfair a day budget and so it's cling film from Aldi all the way, which is not as reliable a pregnancy deterrent.

Rubber johnnies are free from the sexual health clinic on golden square although I must say I prefer the ones made of sheep intestine.

Theres nothing quite like sticking it up her bung hole and then accusing her of necrobestiality:up:

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The only people hung up on social class nowadays are those who consider themselves 'lower class', and have a massive chip on their shoulder about it.

Fucking do something about it rather than moaning to me that I've 'had it easy' because I had my own bedroom at my Ma's house when I was growing up.

I agree with most of this. Though the "middle class" (I hate these terms) can show a certain amount of prejudice as well. Fuck knows I speak to too many toffs as it is.

It's not easy to get out of the "working class" but it's certainly completely manageable. Of course I might just be ignorant here, I am only working from what my Dad has taught me and what him and his brothers have shown me. And my friends. And famous examples of "Rags to riches" stories.

If you want to make money in this country, then in almost all cases you can make money (providing you work hard enough for it).

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Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree
I agree with most of this. Though the "middle class" (I hate these terms) can show a certain amount of prejudice as well. Fuck knows I speak to too many toffs as it is.

It's not easy to get out of the "working class" but it's certainly completely manageable. Of course I might just be ignorant here, I am only working from what my Dad has taught me and what him and his brothers have shown me. And my friends. And famous examples of "Rags to riches" stories.

If you want to make money in this country, then in almost all cases you can make money (providing you work hard enough for it).

I don't know much about this debate to be honest. But I think I'm proof that you can get out of the working class thing.

I was brought up in a working class family (I think). Dad was a baker, and mum was a nurse. Both my brothers went into trades, eldest a painter & decorator and next one a baker. I went to uni and became a lawyer.

I don't feel any different though. I get paid a bit more than them, but then I had a good few years of living on no money because I went to uni, whereas they had plenty of cash week to week when they left school cos they were working.

I don't buy into this class nonsense too much. I think the boundaries are very blurred and loads of grey areas. I wouldn't really say I'm "middle class" but I guess strictly speaking that if you're a lawyer you are, are you? I don't really know, or care ...

:popcorn:

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I think too many negative connotations are associated with "working class" people, when the majority are hard working, honest people, who have jobs or if they don't then actively seek them.

It's the "sub-class" that is 'technically' underneith the working class that really bothers me. The class of people who generally can't be fucked looking for work, are happy to have 300 kids and live off the state than fend for themselves. The kind of people who know full well what the results and repercussions of sticking a needle in their arm yet they still do it. These are the kinds of people that carry knives and are happy to live in perpetual squalor, never wanting to improve their lives or help others around them... never aspiring to be better,

This is brought around by a sense of complete apathy in which this society festers in. The fact that we don't give a shit about each other and they feel that the state has abandoned them. It's the legacy that this generation has given society (or society has given this generation) and will have to live with for a very, very long time.

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Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree
I think too many negative connotations are associated with "working class" people, when the majority are hard working, honest people, who have jobs or if they don't then actively seek them.

It's the "sub-class" that is 'technically' underneith the working class that really bothers me. The class of people who generally can't be fucked looking for work, are happy to have 300 kids and live off the state than fend for themselves. The kind of people who know full well what the results and repercussions of sticking a needle in their arm yet they still do it. These are the kinds of people that carry knives and are happy to live in perpetual squalor, never wanting to improve their lives or help others around them... never aspiring to be better,

This is brought around by a sense of complete apathy in which this society festers in. The fact that we don't give a shit about each other and they feel that the state has abandoned them. It's the legacy that this generation has given society (or society has given this generation) and will have to live with for a very, very long time.

Are there really negative connotations surrounding "working class"? I think the fact that the word "working" is in there suggests some degree of honesty.

How many times have you heard the phrase "good honest working class........."

I'm proud to be from working class background (although after reading that thing on wiki - my background wouldn't quite be working class - maybe my understanding of the whole subject is a little wrong and my background is actually middle class...)

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I think there is a difference between the people who can't work and the people that won't work though. Is there not a seperation there?

According to the Gilbert Model, nope, but that's just one way of looking at it. Stripey used to reject the whole thing and talk about an "intellectual underclass". 8-)

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