Aberdeen Journals and local music

[framheim]

Im not saying their coverage is great' date=' its limited, but to be fair the average reader of that particular paper isnt really all that much the target of local bands. How many 16-22 year olds or whatever read this? They are run by a pretty big company who is only interested in selling units and so have to feature articles of interest to their target. It would be like NME or whatever other crappy music mag having an artcile on an old lady being run down by a First Aberdeen bus or something.[/quote']

no it's not. it's nothing like that at all and also i'd say a large portion of those who are interested in local music are older than 22. the music scene in aberdeen quite obviously could be something of interest to sections of aberdeen journals target circulation.

[Inkster]

Fuckingffsffdsdfas! A promoter PROMOTES. If he doesn't do it right, I'd say the band are well within their rights to have a moan - if the problem is solely because nobody knew the gig was happening.

The band doesn't expect the promoter to get onstage and play drums for them and the promoter shouldn't expect the band to go out pan handling for people to play to.

I knew I'd get this kinda response from someone...

It's not always about the promoters though, it can be down to the bands playing, whether they're any good or not, and whether people like them enough to go see them.

It can also factor to day of the week, time of the year etc

I remember going to see Howards Alias and Sonic Boom Six @ The Moorings the same day as Live Aid was on and due to this (not the promoter not doing his job) it was a shit turn out for quality bands.

Anyways, this discussion could be started in a new thread and has probably been spoken about many times over the years on this very forum.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

As for the Evening Express, having been involved in getting 10 Easy Wishes coverage, they are generally pretty nice peole to deal with. If you ask them to feature something they will do their best, ie why Marie-Clare Jones has been to two of their gigs, did an article on their single lauch and went to the bother of doing a photo shoot for this too out of town.

I think if bands generally made more effort to get on with them then theyd prob help!

Indeed, well put. Although it generally helps if your band is good - like 10 Easy Wishes.

[Chris]

Anyways, this discussion could be started in a new thread and has probably been spoken about many times over the years on this very forum.

You know, I think this is the first time it's come up actually...

[Neil]

no it's not. it's nothing like that at all and also i'd say a large portion of those who are interested in local music are older than 22. the music scene in aberdeen quite obviously could be something of interest to sections of aberdeen journals target circulation.

How do you know this? Do you have any stats to back this up? Because I agree with Ross on this one. I strongly suspect that any local music scene coverage would only appeal to a small minority of their total readership.

And has been mentioned before, Aberden Journals are a business and that business is selling newspapers. They don't have any obligation to provide coverage of the local music scene, or indeed anything else for that matter. They cover what they think will sell their newspapers.

[Jeanette]

You know, I think this is the first time it's come up actually...

I await to be entertained in the next installment... Reading this thread has been highly enjoyable. One thing it does mean is that everyone who posts has a passion about music one way or another!! =]

[Chris]

How do you know this? Do you have any stats to back this up?

I guess the stat is because Dave is over 22, reads the EE and is interested in local music then there must be others in Aberdeen who are the same.

I very much doubt there are any actual stats, publicly available outside the EE marketing department anyway, to back up his assertion just as there aren't any to back up yours. Asking for them is just a strange attempt to make your argument seem stronger.

[Guest Steven Dedalus]

no it's not. it's nothing like that at all and also i'd say a large portion of those who are interested in local music are older than 22. the music scene in aberdeen quite obviously could be something of interest to sections of aberdeen journals target circulation.

Aye, I think you're getting a wee bit carried away there, Dave.

I see the point you're making, but the case seems to be that the Evening Express or P & J caters for a market who are not strictly interested in music.

But, and in keeping with everything I've said thus far, this is where making your band look interesting comes in.

It's not about the paper promoting your band, it's about you giving an interesting story to a news paper, who are in the business of looking for interesting stories.

Hence 15 year old drummer, etc, etc.

And on the subject of promoters, I have to agree that bands should be doing a lot of the legwork themselves.

For me it comes down to this:

Generally, a promoter is in the business of promoting their venue, not the band.

If the band does the work in putting their own name across, then everything should be running tickety-boo.

[ROSS (AGP)]

If any of you complaining can genuinely say that youve contacted them, actually have decent material and yeah some sort of story - why should they simply do an article saying "this bands playing here"? You could have fifty articles a week like that. When I got 10 Easy Wishes in they had a single and full UK tour on, this band like or not had an "interesting story" in the drummers age - and theyve still ignored you, it could mean one of two things - they dont like you or youve not tried hard enough.

Without wanting to use NME again - Ive been trying for ever to get them to pay attention to certain projects but theyre busy people with thousands of bands trying the same thing, which to a certain extent is the same with Aberdeen Journals. They arent there as a music newspaper so on top of the hundreds of bands in Aberdeen they are having to deal with thousands of news stories too.

Its true, some local bands expect to headline the tunnels and that gives them the devine right to be featired.

Again hating to use personal situations but with 10 Easy Wishes they simply work hard as fuck as do I for them. Ie self funding the single and losing money on a tour etc etc. And its slowly and I mean slowly working but its taken years!!

I promote at The Tunnels and you get locals who make the effort to take 40 odd people with them and then you get the ones that turn up, slag off the fact its dead and then blame everyone else. I suspect that this is maybe the bands that work hard getting coverage and the others not???

Aberdeen has a lot of good local bands and also a lot of shit ones, but as can be seen by the amount of shit bands in national press - theyre the ones with the right attitude.

[Neil]

Asking for them is just a strange attempt to make your argument seem stronger.

Not at all. The reason I asked is that Dave's reply comes across as a statement of fact when in fact he was just expressing his opinion. As was I.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

[ROSS (AGP)]

my typing is awful today by the way - I can spell really!!!

[framheim]

How do you know this? Do you have any stats to back this up? Because I agree with Ross on this one. I strongly suspect that any local music scene coverage would only appeal to a small minority of their total readership.

And has been mentioned before, Aberden Journals are a business and that business is selling newspapers. They don't have any obligation to provide coverage of the local music scene, or indeed anything else for that matter. They cover what they think will sell their newspapers.

why would i need stats to back up common sense? has anyone provided stats to counter that argument? why the sudden interest in stats? have you developed a cloud complex?

the circulation of the p&j and the evening express is huge and it stands to reason a portion of that readership listens to music and goes to see bands live. you know yourself that there is a decent interest in local music just from the site visits you get here(and that's with a reasonably small amount of promotion). increased coverage of music could also lead to a higher readership amongst certain age groups, particularly for the evening express whose target market is likely to include younger people anyway. i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find the circulation figures(they're published regularly in trade magazines) including age breakdown.

i don't know why people keep saying their under no obligation to cover local music. no one has said that they are, all i've said is that the music scene would grow and be more diverse if they did and that it was something that i wished would happen. i also think they're missing a decent business opportunity.

[Lemonade]

I'm saddened to read that some people think that we have a shit scene up here. We have a very vibrant and broad music scene that needs people to invest their time and money into it.

Time and money can be taken any way you want it to. Whether it be writing in the local rag, or making your own publication, promoters spending money and putting alot of time into putting gigs on, or the bands themselves getting off their arses and doing some work themselves.

My last point is what really gets me frustrated alot of the time.This may start a whole new conversation and thread but I'm gonna say it here anyways.

I think bands should invest more time and effort into promotiing themselves and getting crowds to their gigs and people interested in their music. Alot of bands rest on their laurels(sp) and just expect their friends to keep turning up listening to the same set in a different venue in town every other week. They leave all promotion to the promoter concerned and then moan if it's a shit turnout.

The exception to this seems to be out-of-town bands who look to promote themselves. Speaking to Paige yesterday at my gig, they arrived in Aberdeen about 1pm and set about wandering around town, flyers in hand, speaking to people and trying to get them interested in going to the gig. Why can't local bands do this? It doesn't take more than each member spending maybe about an hour each one day and doing the same.

Anyways, back to my original point. I think we have a very good scene up here and it would just take a bit of hard work from some bands to break through and get somewhere rather than playing round the same venues once a month.

I agree with you 100%. I've been in bands where we've sat and done fuck all to promote OUR OWN gigs, then thrown a diva strop when no-one turns up. I don't agree with this whole "if you're good enough they will seek you out" attitude, the more people who know you are playing the more people will turn up. If you want people to come sometimes you have to do the legwork and do your own promotion. You're not on Top Of The Pops yet, people.

[offramp]

not long enough to judge them then. just what i thought. yeah, carry on.

ive got my point across!

Thanks for your guesswork, words in my mouth and critical evaluation.

I left when I got bored, admittedly not very long.

I didn't pay to get in, no big deal.

Well done on getting the band in the paper. It made me curious and interested enough to pop my head round the door. However, I think, in your role as band promoter, you should accept my opinion gracefully, move on from this little episode and perhaps concentrate your efforts on your band's chosen target market, otherwise you'll just get yourself in a tizz next time someone of a similar mindset to me has the temerity to disagree with your opinion.

[framheim]

Not at all. The reason I asked is that Dave's reply comes across as a statement of fact when in fact he was just expressing his opinion. As was I.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

it is a fact that the evening express covering local music is not comparable to the nme covering an oap being knocked down by a bus. unless the oap is paul mccartney or something.

[Chris]

Not at all. The reason I asked is that Dave's reply comes across as a statement of fact when in fact he was just expressing his opinion. As was I.

Well Dave's argument has one thing going for it at least, he's over 22 and reads the Evening Express. So he's part of this section of their readership that you and Ross argued doesn't exist. I read the evening express, am over 22 and interested in local music. So That's 2 people that apparently don't exist. Erotic Fire - 3/4ths are over 22, probably read the EE (at least when they're in it) and are interested in local music (being local musicians). More people who don't exist.

While he may have been over-stating I don't think his argument is merely opinion, I think there was a good point there.

[Inkster]

You know, I think this is the first time it's come up actually...

I assume you're taking the piss cos I remember at least one time reading a similar conversation with cloud and others involved in it.

Generally, a promoter is in the business of promoting their venue, not the band.

I'm an independant promoter and therefore this does not apply to me. I promote for myself and the bands.

I want to see bands from Aberdeen doing well by playing to crowds of people and by playing alongside bands with standards they aspire to.Now some will argue this is not the case as on occasion local bands are better than the touring band playing but generally I'd say this isn't the case.

I promote for myself in the sense that the more gigs I put on and the bands I get are bigger and better, then in turn I will get the bigger bands up to Aberdeen who everyone wants to see.It's also my personal goal to say I've put on certain bands under my promotions name but I know I have to crawl before I can walk.

[Guest Steven Dedalus]

I read the evening express, am over 22 and interested in local music. .

But you're Dave's identical twin, and therefore don't count as two people.

HAw haw haw!

I am, of course, only kidding.

[Lemonade]

Twins freak me out. A little off topic, granted, but thought I'd just throw it in there.

[JennyD]

Thanks for your guesswork, words in my mouth and critical evaluation.

I left when I got bored, admittedly not very long.

I didn't pay to get in, no big deal.

Well done on getting the band in the paper. It made me curious and interested enough to pop my head round the door. However, I think, in your role as band promoter, you should accept my opinion gracefully, move on from this little episode and perhaps concentrate your efforts on your band's chosen target market, otherwise you'll just get yourself in a tizz next time someone of a similar mindset to me has the temerity to disagree with your opinion.

im not the bands promoter, thats Sazzle R. i actually just wondered how long you watched them for before deciding they werent very good, thats all. Nothing more, nothing less.

[HeinzHines]

Length of time is irrelevant. He made up his mind either way!

[Inkster]

im not the bands promoter, thats Sazzle R. i actually just wondered how long you watched them for before deciding they werent very good, thats all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bands can get signed after someone listening to 30 seconds. Generally they say 3 songs at most on a demo cd. This is usually half a bands set so you gotta impress straight away.

They're quite a new band so they may get better, only time will tell.

[TR!ΔNGL€ T€€TH]

Twins freak me out. A little off topic, granted, but thought I'd just throw it in there.

I thought that you meant the 80's comedy adventure romp there...

[Lemonade]

im not the bands promoter, thats Sazzle R. i actually just wondered how long you watched them for before deciding they werent very good, thats all. Nothing more, nothing less.

I listened to them on bebo then decided they weren't very good. Don't get me wrong, they played well enough but it was just a little 80s poodle rock for my palate.

[Stripey]

I don't know why anyone gives a damn about the locality of anything, if you don't think of yourself in a global context I feel sorry for you. Frankly most aberdeen bands probably get more unique plays on myspace than people coming to their gigs anyway. With the internet you've got absolutely no excuse to not get your material out to loads of people or get signed to a niche label in some country in the world. So why give a shit about the local rag when the world is your proverbial oyster?*

*Oops, I'm forgetting how important prancing about on a stage playacting your childhood rockstar fantasies is.