AWPR petition (look!)

[Stripey]

I'm sure most of you will be aware of the ongoing drama with regard to the proposed aberdeen bypass route. The current proposals will have a huge impact on those living in it's path, including homeowners and organic farmers in the area, aswell as huge environmental impact. Please sign this online petition at the scottish parliament website, urging a review of the current proposals.

http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=97

Thanks.

[Cloud]

Homeowners : diddums, where were you when it looked like the Murtle route was going to get chosen? Don't give me your nonsense, I bet none of you give a toss about roads elsewhere, you're just crying because your house is worth a fortune in today's housing boom and you won't get anywhere near that in compensation.

Organic farmers : Why not launch in areas that could do with some more businesses? Such as the Highlands and Islands...

Enviromental impact : What about the impact that thousands of queuing cars cause each day by having to go through Aberdeen rather than bypass it? It's a case of swings and roundabouts - ultimately, the bypass will make life much easier for a lot of people.

But go on Stripey, tell me why I should sign the petition, especially considering that the Western section of the AWPR hasn't been decided in fine detail yet.

[framheim]

Homeowners : diddums' date=' where were you when it looked like the Murtle route was going to get chosen? Don't give me your nonsense, I bet none of you give a toss about roads elsewhere, you're just crying because your house is worth a fortune in today's housing boom and you won't get anywhere near that in compensation.

Organic farmers : Why not launch in areas that could do with some more businesses? Such as the Highlands and Islands...

Enviromental impact : What about the impact that thousands of queuing cars cause each day by having to go through Aberdeen rather than bypass it? It's a case of swings and roundabouts - ultimately, the bypass will make life much easier for a lot of people.

But go on Stripey, tell me why I should sign the petition, especially considering that the Western section of the AWPR hasn't been decided in fine detail yet.[/quote']

homeowners: how would you like it if you owned a house and lost 30k of it's value because of someone building a road next to it?

organic farmers: why the fuck should they have to?

environmental impact: but that's just moving the problem outwith the city centre. if anything it'll increase the volume of traffic going through the north east not decrease it. the bypass solves no environmental issues whatsoever.

there is no 'good' route for a bypass, however there could be much more done to improve public transport in the north east.

[salsadecacahuete]

is this that road that is going to be in milltimber next to all the big houses and the international school that 'everyone' is complaining about?

[crooked*smile]

One of the proposed routes was gonna go right past my house, but thankfully that wasnt the one that was chosen There's no "good" way for it to go, but hey, it's gonna happen at some point so hopefully they will manage (or, have managed, if they stick to the current decision) to choose the best (or, least bad) route...

[catherine]

somesone always gona be unhappy no matter what

but as someone who lives(ed) in bridge of don its a nightmare with traffic. a by pass would have made/make my life easier.

[Cloud]

homeowners: how would you like it if you owned a house and lost 30k of it's value because of someone building a road next to it?

I'd think "fuck' date=' maybe I shouldn't have bought this house here when I knew that there was potential for the bypass to come nearby". I bet once the route is finalised, a lot of people will shut up about the bypass simply because a house 5 minutes away from the bypass, particularly in the western part of the city is going to skyrocket in value. Some people will lose out, but I dare say the majority will benefit. Right now, I wouldn't live in that part of the city simply because of the piss poor transport connections - but if the bypass arrives, then it's a whole different ballgame.

organic farmers: why the fuck should they have to?

For the needs of the majority rather than the minority? Tryanny of the majority and all that - but at the end of the day, it's not like they're being told "you can't farm again", rather "you can't farm here". Happens all the time, look at what happens when councils buy up land to build houses on.

Why should the fact that they grow "organic" foods make any difference?

environmental impact: but that's just moving the problem outwith the city centre. if anything it'll increase the volume of traffic going through the north east not decrease it. the bypass solves no environmental issues whatsoever.

there is no 'good' route for a bypass, however there could be much more done to improve public transport in the north east.

What's wrong with more traffic coming through the North East? More traffic usually means more prosperity, meaning that we can all benefit from increased living standards.

I agree that money should be spend trying to get people out of their cars - things like the Aberdeen Crossrail should be invested in, along with proper bus priority measures. The Lang Stracht could have been designed around buses at peak times easily enough, but as it stands, it's a mish-mash of markings that doesn't do very much for getting people into the city quickly and effectively.

I just hope we don't get the chance of a brilliant bypass ruined because of the minority.

but as someone who lives(ed) in bridge of don its a nightmare with traffic. a by pass would have made/make my life easier.

Same. It's not that bad for me as I'm closer to the city centre than the vast majority of Bridge of Don people, but the bypass would be incredibly useful for getting over to Dyce without having to go on dodgy back roads or via the Haudagain.

[Sam 45]

Ah yes the road that is gonna wreck wear i have grown up and its surroundings - think i heard something about it.

[Scootray]

Build the damn road and be done with it.

[framheim]

I'd think "fuck' date=' maybe I shouldn't have bought this house here when I knew that there was potential for the bypass to come nearby". I bet once the route is finalised, a lot of people will shut up about the bypass simply because a house 5 minutes away from the bypass, particularly in the western part of the city is going to skyrocket in value. Some people will lose out, but I dare say the majority will benefit. Right now, I wouldn't live in that part of the city simply because of the piss poor transport connections - but if the bypass arrives, then it's a whole different ballgame.

For the needs of the majority rather than the minority? Tryanny of the majority and all that - but at the end of the day, it's not like they're being told "you can't farm again", rather "you can't farm here". Happens all the time, look at what happens when councils buy up land to build houses on.

Why should the fact that they grow "organic" foods make any difference?

What's wrong with more traffic coming through the North East? More traffic usually means more prosperity, meaning that we can all benefit from increased living standards.

I agree that money should be spend trying to get people out of their cars - things like the Aberdeen Crossrail should be invested in, along with proper bus priority measures. The Lang Stracht could have been designed around buses at peak times easily enough, but as it stands, it's a mish-mash of markings that doesn't do very much for getting people into the city quickly and effectively.

I just hope we don't get the chance of a brilliant bypass ruined because of the minority.

Same. It's not that bad for me as I'm closer to the city centre than the vast majority of Bridge of Don people, but the bypass would be incredibly useful for getting over to Dyce without having to go on dodgy back roads or via the Haudagain.[/quote']

you have a very different view of the world from me it would seem.

i've never heard the argument that increased traffic leads to a higher standard of living before, it's certainly an interesting take on things.

[dougfast]

i never would of thought i would agree with cloud

[Cloud]

Looking on here -

http://www.aberdeengreenbelt.org/

It's a protest website, but which has some rather amusing facts on it. The map is quite good as it shows all the options - and strictly speaking, none of the options are perfect.

But let's look at some of their facts..

Several other tunnel options are feasible, all without massive disruption. Tunnels cost about £15m per km versus roads £5m per km. Thus, although tunnels are more expensive, they are also shorter since they can be direct from A to B without detours. In practice, a small extra expense will be of massive benefit to Aberdonians for lack of disruption and speed of decison.

Tunnels just aren't that cheap. For instance, the 5.6km Dublin Port Tunnel (probably the most relevant thing to use, as it's nearly completed) is going to cost between £300m and £700m. The proposed seoond Tyne Tunnel in Newcastle is going to cost a quoted £139m for no more than 2km - and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is concerned about it costing more than that.

I can't be bothered to look up more, but it's glaringly obvious that the protesters are worried about their bottom line rather than any care for the enviroment.

Anyway, if they care that much about the countryside, where are they when it comes to protesting against the endless identical cheaply build houses that are being constructed by Stewart Milne and others?

[Guest Hon Jonda]

Yes I have a plan it is a glorious plan but a plan none the less.

Lets build a bridge over the houses

[Lemonade]

I'm sick of taking an hour every morning to get from my work in BOD to my home in Garthdee, as I am incredibly self centered, I say build the road and fuck everyone's opinion (except mine).

[Rachie]

Jesus Cloud. That's right, tell all the local Aberdeenshire farmers to relocate to Highlands and Islands, good boy. Fucking idiot. The farming business is difficult enough profit-wise these days without having to relocate to somewhere miles away. Can you imagine having had a farm in your family for nigh on a hundred years and being told by some dick on the internet: "Oh just move out to the Hebrides, you'll be fine."?????

Don't get me wrong, we need a by-pass, but statements like that are just totally ill thought out.

[Cloud]

Jesus Cloud. That's right' date=' tell all the local Aberdeenshire farmers to relocate to Highlands and Islands, good boy. Fucking idiot. The farming business is difficult enough profit-wise these days without having to relocate to somewhere miles away. Can you imagine having had a farm in your family for nigh on a hundred years and being told by some dick on the internet: "Oh just move out to the Hebrides, you'll be fine."?????[/quote']

It wouldn't surprise me if it would be more profitable up there, once you consider the amount of EU money that's given to such areas. Obviously that means doing what's profitable rather than doing it because it's been in the family for years - but hey, it's the spirit of capitalism.

It might not be politically correct to say that people should move for the sake of progress, but it's the cold and simple truth. A few farmers (anyone got any links to show complaints by them, incidentally?) can't be allowed to hold back an entire region that will benefit from the AWPR, can they?

The thing is, they know the bypass is coming...instead of fighting it, might it not be best to prepare for the worst and have to move elsewhere as a result? I hear farming in France is very profitable...

[MattJimF]

Although the farmers may struggle while it is being built, they will be paid over the odds for the fields used, probably, when the road is built they will have a faster and more direct route to get their produce/livestock to buyers which i would imagine being a good thing for fresh produce.

Please note i am guessing at all this and there may be no fact in this post whatsoever, but hey what's new on here!

[Guest Neubeatz]

So ironic, the evil state imposing its will on personal greed, I reckon that those affected by the route will be well placed to afford legal represntation enabling them to adequate financial compensation.

I do feel sorry for those who live "outside" the compensation corridor, but will still be disadvantaged by the proximity of the proposed new route, unfortunately though, fair's not fair, it's the govt, its the law, etc etc.....

[Stripey]

Organic farmers : Why not launch in areas that could do with some more businesses? Such as the Highlands and Islands...

Enviromental impact : What about the impact that thousands of queuing cars cause each day by having to go through Aberdeen rather than bypass it? It's a case of swings and roundabouts - ultimately' date=' the bypass will make life much easier for a lot of people.

[/quote']

You don't have a clue mate. You don't just say one day "I'm gonna be an organic certified farmer!". It takes YEARS to gain organic certification. It's the LAND that is certified after years of strict management under very tight guidlines before organic status is granted. People have spent most of their lives building up their organic businesses, and relocation is not a possibility.

As for the environmental impact, you don't think cutting huge swathes through the countryside and putting down dual carriageway constitutes pretty serious environmental impact? The proposed Stonehaven spur is what is causing the concern here as it is totally uneccesary.

[lepeep]

Why should the fact that they grow "organic" foods make any difference?

because it takes a long time to get accreditation that you are organic, 5 years, I think.

if their "organic" land is destroyed, you can't just buy a new plot of land and say "I am organic", as the soil has to be tested etc and organophosphates etc take ages to leech out of the soil.

EDIT, I didn't see stripey's post!...I'll get back to work....

[crooked*smile]

I'd think "fuck' date=' maybe I shouldn't have bought this house here when I knew that there was potential for the bypass to come nearby". .[/quote']

I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you as a whole, but that statements just wrong. Yes the plans for the bypass have been out there for a while, but not forever. And until everyone started realising and protesting, it was much harder to get hold of any plans. There were people out there who had bought houses years ago and just didn't know. If you were buying a house now, I bet you wouldn't go and bug the council just to check that there was no planned bypass or whatever. These people weren't warned when they bought their houses.

my neighbours have lived in their house for 40+ years, there's no way they could have known when they bought it. And their house has lot a lot of value in that time cos of where it is, and it was gonna be totally flattened, and they were just gonna get the current value of the house which wasn't gonna be enough to buy them anything decent.

[salsadecacahuete]

again... is this the big road that'll be ploughing through milltimber???????

[Stripey]

again... is this the big road that'll be ploughing through milltimber???????

Yep it is. I should point out that the petition isn't against a bypass entirely, just to have the plans reviewed.

[pogofish]

I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you as a whole' date=' but that statements just wrong. Yes the plans for the bypass have been out there for a while, but not forever. And until everyone started realising and protesting, it was much harder to get hold of any plans.

There were people out there who had bought houses years ago and just didn't know. If you were buying a house now,

I bet you wouldn't go and bug the council just to check that there was no planned bypass or whatever. [/quote']

The plans have been kicking around since at least 1952 & the Myrtle route was common knowledge when I grew-up near it in the 1970s & had been subject to planning/development restrictions along its corridor since at least the early 80s. Copies of the plan were in every public library & the planning office.

No excuse, it is your responsability to ascertain that the property & its environs will be suitable for you.

That is exactly what you do & what the planning department is there for. You also get it in writing so you can sue them if they do magik-up some plan out of nowhere.

[salsadecacahuete]

mmmkay. and isn't most of the kerfuffle about how the rich people's house prices will go down?? not all this farm stuff...