Subbacultcha Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 By this i mean are all good bands filled with good musicians? Obviously a band needs to have enough technical ability to play in time ect, but i can think of what i percieve to be excellent bands that really have average drummer/guitar/bassist skills at best. A classic example would be Mclusky. Discuss.BTW Hi, im new to this forum and Aberdeen, like it a lot. I'm at Aberdeen uni and originaly from London, the scene here is very good on first impressions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yes. A good band need to be good musicians, but that's not to say good musicians make a good band! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Not really, there are loads of examples of really amazing bands who were technically average (or worse!). I think thats what you're getting at, right?egDaniel Johnston (granted he's not a band)PavementSilver JewsYoung Marble GiantsCat PowerBeat Happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I disagree. I think Pavement are good musicians. They have to be to pull that style of music off. Take Les Dawson's sketches were he used to play piano badly - that's actually really difficult to do, and he was regarded as a very talented pianist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I disagree. I think Pavement are good musicians. They have to be to pull that style of music off. Take Les Dawson's sketches were he used to play piano badly - that's actually really difficult to do' date=' and he was regarded as a very talented pianist.[/quote']Its not really difficult to play piano badly! Are you suggesting that in order to play averagely, or even badly, you need to know how to play well? I don't understand.The Ramones are perhaps another example of average (maybe even below average?) musicians who wrote ace songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 i'd think the moldy peaches also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Its not really difficult to play piano badly! Are you suggesting that in order to play averagely' date=' or even badly, you need to know how to play well? I don't understand.The Ramones are perhaps another example of average (maybe even below average?) musicians who wrote ace songs.[/quote']Aye, but it's very difficult to intentionally play the piano badly. Being unable to play well is a totally different kettle of fish.I can't really comment on the Ramones musicianship as I'm not really into them, but I think that a band need to be of a reasonanble standard on their instruments. Some bands write really simple songs, but are still really great musicians.And what's an "average musician"? It's all relative really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I think an ability to think objectively and creatively about the sound you're creating is essential. People with this ability will generally realise that proficiency at a given medium/instrument is neccessary to be able to manipulate the sound. The converse flaw with trained musicians is that they can believe a given level of proficiency translates into a sovereignty over the instrument where it's soley them creating this music. This leads to a blindness of how the instrument is affecting their musical choices, the musician seeing the instrument/medium as merely a vehicle for their perfect ideal, unaware of (and thus, exacerbating) an inherent conflict (hence: horrible 80s wank). True creativity is a dialogue between the artist and the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I personally am happy as long as a band plays within their limits, and keeps it fairly tight. Alkaline Trio are one of my favourite bands, and most of their songs are really simple; just power chords and octaves.IMO, being technically exceptional or at least very good just gives you options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 i think technical skill is a different thing from being a good musician. you can be the worlds greatest guitarist but still be a poor musician imo. a good musician is someone who listens to what's happening around them and works to the music not to their skill. a band is a group effort and not a showcase for solo's. if a guy doesn't know his instrument very well but what he can play fits the style of the band then there's no problem. people can learn as they go but a band lives and dies on how the members fit together. so technical skill gets a thumbs down but the ability to listen to music around you and play to that gets a thumbs up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gasss Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Technical skill is only part of being a good musician. You need enough to express your ideas. However I see more snobbery on the anti-technique side than the pro-technique side. People seem to think that because some inspirational musicians have poor technical skill that aiming to be technically poor will make them inspired. By the way I think Steven Malkmus is a technically excellent (and inspired) guitarist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I think that different styles of music demand different levels of instrumental skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Doubt Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 i always have arguments with other gtrists about this, being able to play really fast complex solos doesnt make u a gd gtrist just makes you good at that technical part. Not being able to play slow melodic and syncopated stuff aswell as keep rythmn but hmm im trying to say u could be the greatest fuckin musician and still not be able to write a decent piece of music/song. that make any sense?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 u could be the greatest fuckin musician and still not be able to write a decent piece of music/songMy God thats genius! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 It's normally the most technically skilled musicians that can't write a tune to save their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neubeatz Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 It's normally the most technically skilled musicians that can't write a tune to save their lives.Imagine having to write a tune to "save your life", what if the emperor didnt like it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig B Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 A good musican (in terms of being in a band) is more about being able to play well with other people, I'd say. Knowing howe pars fit togther etc. And a complicated tune is not inherently better than a simple one anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdale Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 i think technical skill is a different thing from being a good musician. you can be the worlds greatest guitarist but still be a poor musician imo. a good musician is someone who listens to what's happening around them and works to the music not to their skill. a band is a group effort and not a showcase for solo's. if a guy doesn't know his instrument very well but what he can play fits the style of the band then there's no problem. people can learn as they go but a band lives and dies on how the members fit together. so technical skill gets a thumbs down but the ability to listen to music around you and play to that gets a thumbs up exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Yeah, ability to listen to what is going on around is vitally important, I still think that technical ability is very important. As said, how else are you going to express your ideas?Being a technically good musician does not mean that you can write a good tune, but just because you are very good technically does not mean that you can't write a good tune. And how do you define what a good tune is? I mean if Mozart was alive today he'd probably play electric guitar and shred like a madman!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Yeah' date=' ability to listen to what is going on around is vitally important, I still think that technical ability is very important. As said, how else are you going to express your ideas?Being a technically good musician does not mean that you can write a good tune, but just because you are very good technically does not mean that you can't write a good tune. And how do you define what a good tune is? I mean if Mozart was alive today he'd probably play electric guitar and shred like a madman!![/quote']yea but shredding is like a penis extension for ugly guitarists. maybe i'm just jealous cause i can't shred and i dont' have the attention span to learn to a high technical standard.you can express your ideas the same as a technically good guitarist it just takes a bit longer. i think people with a strong technical grounding in an instrument sometimes end up imprisoned by theory and 'rules' and then struggle to really express themselves musically. meh, the same can be said for those without the technical expertise i guess. they have an idea but can't find the right notes to express it or really set the song off. i guess that's where a band comes in to throw ideas and tips around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 At the end of the day a band is just the sum of all its parts, generally made up of people of varying technical abilities. But its the sum total of these musicians abilities that dictates how good a song is. You could have 4 very gifted musicians who couldn't write a song between them in a million years or you could have people who regardless of technical ability can play off each other very well and write amazing songs.Good examples of this in my opinion would be:NirvanaPavementThe RamonesThe WhoThe Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 At the end of the day a band is just the sum of all its parts' date=' generally made up of people of varying technical abilities. But its the sum total of these musicians abilities that dictates how good a song is. You could have 4 very gifted musicians who couldn't write a song between them in a million years or you could have people who regardless of technical ability can play off each other very well and write amazing songs.Good examples of this in my opinion would be:NirvanaPavementThe RamonesThe WhoThe Jam[/quote']The Who?!?! All masters of their field!!! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 It's normally the most technically skilled musicians that can't write a tune to save their lives.Not all perhaps but certainly shred can blot out decent songwriting. Its probably a good idea (depending on the music style) to have a knowledge of chord shapes because this can inspire different ideas. Im sure this is a level of guitar playing which doesnt make your songs any better, maybe just the solos i.e. Dimebag ( who had the ability to shred and write amazing riffs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan G Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Yeah' date=' ability to listen to what is going on around is vitally important, I still think that technical ability is very important. As said, how else are you going to express your ideas?Being a technically good musician does not mean that you can write a good tune, but just because you are very good technically does not mean that you can't write a good tune. And how do you define what a good tune is? I mean if Mozart was alive today he'd probably play electric guitar and shred like a madman!![/quote']totally agree with this.yea but shredding is like a penis extension for ugly guitarists. Not always. There are lots of guitarists who could shred but in the context of great songs (megadeth/pantera etc). Just because you're not into metal/shred doesn't mean it's all bad. Some is wank, some isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 The Who?!?! All masters of their field!!! :DNah, not really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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