Prince Of Wales...in receivership?

[Ollie]

they can do what they want to estaminet but please dont fuck with Prince of wales, o donohughes and bells. Thatd be a disaster to the heart of aberdeen.

Looks like ill be taking my business to the grill.

[huntedbyafreak]

i hope they don't fuck with estaminet too much either' date=' it might be full of hipsters but it's got it's own character and you can usually get a seat and some good music in there.[/quote']

i would be absolutely gutted if estaminet changed in any way... i love that place. prince of wales is great as well but i do *heart* estaminet...

[ragudave]

Lets hope that a regional independent buyer such as Colin Cameron will put a bid in for the POW, rather than a "put the price of drinks up in the front window" sort of pub chain.

Dave

PS Colin Cameron owns the KGB, Bridge Bar and the Masada (opposite Anderson's Cycles)

[threeornothing]

Give us our Cafes that we so desprately need...Whats the effect? Everyone gets stoned and chills the fuck out...no fighting' date=' just a happy bunch of mincers, and an extrordinaly huge Q for sizzlers...Mmmm Sizzlers The effects of alcohol are far worse than those of cannabis..

It pisses me off I tell thee..Legalise it, no issue and no need for a country to be so uptight, plus they can charge us for it...Defecits gone....Tax's lowered...and people who Whitey, not get their stomachs pumped....

Does anyone know why this hasn't happened yet>>>>?[/quote']

Seriously flawed arguement....I know of plenty of people who are still the most arrogant ill-bred violent bastards ever whilst they are stoned....

[Flash@TMB]

Lets hope that a regional independent buyer such as Colin Cameron will put a bid in for the POW' date=' rather than a "put the price of drinks up in the front window" sort of pub chain.

Dave

PS Colin Cameron owns the KGB, Bridge Bar and the Masada (opposite Anderson's Cycles)[/quote']

The biggest stumbling block would probably be asking price. Most independent bars are in the 100K-500K price range - the Prince is likely to go for 2-3x that. Last time around it sold for night on 1.5M.

[ragudave]

The biggest stumbling block would probably be asking price. Most independent bars are in the 100K-500K price range - the Prince is likely to go for 2-3x that. Last time around it sold for night on 1.5M.

Do bars still sell on a rough valuation of 1 years turnover?

[Flash@TMB]

Do bars still sell on a rough valuation of 1 years turnover?

Valuation works differently for freehold and leasehold.

For a freehold like the Prince of Wales you'd be looking at the value of the property plus 5 years profits, based on an average of the last 3 years trading profit.

I believe that they own the entire building, if so then that alone would be worth in the region of 750K-1M. Also I'd assume their profitability to be in the region of 100-150K. Which would give a value of between 1.25M and 1.75M. Last time it sold for 1.5M but the value of the property has increased since then and the profits have likely dipped slightly. The fact that they are in liquidation probably won't affect the price.

[ragudave]

Valuation works differently for freehold and leasehold.

For a freehold like the Prince of Wales you'd be looking at the value of the property plus 5 years profits' date=' based on an average of the last 3 years trading profit.

I believe that they own the entire building, if so then that alone would be worth in the region of 750K-1M. Also I'd assume their profitability to be in the region of 100-150K. Which would give a value of between 1.25M and 1.75M. Last time it sold for 1.5M but the value of the property has increased since then and the profits have likely dipped slightly. The fact that they are in liquidation probably won't affect the price.[/quote']

Thanks for that - so I suppose the worst case scenario for POW regulars is the building being sold to a property developer rather than a pub because the property price > business value. Hence the POW could be converted into offices, flats, a shop or whatever assuming the use of the property could be changed? Or a pub company (or whoever) could do a sale and leaseback of the property and keep it as a pub...

Dave

[RF Scott]

It's true' date=' I read this in Yesterdays P&J. Apparently, the staff wages are going to take an extra week to get paid or something but it doesn't mention any changes to the pub itself.

Nothing to worry about. It'll still be the same non-atmosphere, music devoid pub.[/quote']

I've never been to the prince of wales, but I like the idea of a place with no music!

[psydoll]

Aye it's quite a nice change. It'd be a shame if it's turned into another characterless hovel.

[Flash@TMB]

Thanks for that - so I suppose the worst case scenario for POW regulars is the building being sold to a property developer rather than a pub because the property price > business value. Hence the POW could be converted into offices' date=' flats, a shop or whatever assuming the use of the property could be changed? Or a pub company (or whoever) could do a sale and leaseback of the property and keep it as a pub...

Dave[/quote']

Given it's popularity, it is unlikely that it would change from being a pub.

The downside is that it's never a good idea to purchase a business that is on top of it's game because the only way is down. Even less of a good idea if you have to borrow moeny to do so.

For example a well know local restaurant changed hands a few years ago for 1M. Interest rates were low then, and the purchaser had to take out a substantial loan. The business was absolutely on top of it's game. The upheaval of the new owner caused a few teething problems (it always does), leading to a temp drop in quality that lost a few customers.

Next the banks hiked the interest rates. Let's say for eample that the original loan was at a rate of 8%, a 2% hike in rates to 10% equated to a 25% hike in the repayment (2 is 25% of 8, see - remember this if you are planning to take out a mortgage). In order to meet the increased repayment the new owner had to cut back on portion sizes, quality of produce, freeze wages, release some staff... and of course quality dropped further, alienating more customers and making the situation worse. Within 5 years the previous owner had repurchased the business for 400K. He then went on to repeat the trick a second time. This is how the smart money works!

So a loan based on a pub that's currently operating nearly flat out, when interest rates are rock bottom, and property prices are sky high is a recipie for disaster! Right now a 1% hike in rates would lead to a 25% hike in repayments, and if interest rates went back up to 8% (which is still low in the grand scheme of things) the repayments would DOUBLE!

[ragudave]

Offers over 2.2m for the Prince of Wales according to the P&J

P&J story on pubs for sale

[framheim]

fuck, that's a lot of cash.

[ragudave]

fuck' date=' that's a lot of cash.[/quote']

hopefully the press have got it wrong and its a dutch auction because it seems to overvalue the POW by up to a million...

[RF Scott]

Estaminet for 625,000 too

[Frosty Jack]

SOLD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4733964.stm

[David]

"We're well aware of the esteem in which it is held and consider it a great privilege to take over a pub with its heritage and sense of tradition," Mr Marr said.

"We respect that history and tradition and we hope it will continue to trade for another 155 years and more."

Sounds promising

David

[RossP]

It was bought by the Marr brothers, who own Dundee FC.

Watch this space: Over the hill foreign legends in the bar-world will be recruited and paid megabucks, bringing a temporary bit of excitement to the Aberdeen pub scene, before jumping ship to retire gracefully in the well paid land of Qatar Pub league, at the point of POW Administration. A brief spell in the 1st division of the pub league follows, before the youth team of POW start to make a name for themselves and march up the table. Back to the to league of the pub world, surviving merely on peanuts and tips. Literally.

Those who haven't followed the SPL football for the past few years may be confused, i apologise.

[thegreatcornholio]

It was bought by the Marr brothers' date=' who own Dundee FC.

Watch this space: Over the hill foreign legends in the bar-world will be recruited and paid megabucks, bringing a temporary bit of excitement to the Aberdeen pub scene, before jumping ship to retire gracefully in the well paid land of Qatar Pub league, at the point of POW Administration. A brief spell in the 1st division of the pub league follows, before the youth team of POW start to make a name for themselves and march up the table. Back to the to league of the pub world, surviving merely on peanuts and tips. Literally.

Those who haven't followed the SPL football for the past few years may be confused, i apologise.[/quote']

Yep...I think I see what you're getting at re: spl fitba. I think Scotia beat them to it though it though.

I worked in one of the bars Scotia took over back in 2001, they thought they could buy success. They didn't do their homework on what they buying. Verase were almost to happy to sell them almost all of their outdated pubs and clubs. I sure those other companies involved in the sale of the remaining premises including PoW had the same idea...cut and run.

Luckily PoW is the one bar that has come through this relatively unscaved. I genuinely don't see a long term future for many of the other places...frequented by the increasingly fickle general public who jump from one new bar to the next.

The PoW has been around for years and will continue to do so...it has always been successful and was probably one of Scotia's only pubs to turn in a profit.

I hope the Marrs see this and don't mess with what isn't broken. Dubiously from knowledge though their various businesses in Tayside fail to inspire confidence.

[Flash@TMB]

The only way they can make this work is to sell off the other bars and retain the POW. Right now they have borrowed a large sum of money from *SHUDDER* The Clydesdale Bank, and the interest on that is going to kill them.

Assuming that they sell the other places and pay off the loan, then it gets a little easier, but The POW is going to struggle to justify it's price tag. Right now The POW is at the top of it's game, so there's not much scope to increase revenues or profits. It's a bad strategy to by a business with little or no room for improvement because the only way is down.

One guy I know of bought a struggling restaurant for 250K. He built up trade and sold it a few years later for 1M when interests rates were low (like they are now), the new owners took out a huge loan to fund the purchase. The banks put interest rates up (when these are low then the only way is up), the loan repayments increased. The new owner had to cut back on things like staff, quality of produce, portion size. The business started to decline. This made it even harder to pay back the loan. Eventually they started losing money big time. All the customers drifted away. The place went to rat shit. The original owner then bought it back for 250K. He repeated the exact smae trick twice more, netting in excess of 2M in the space of 15 years. Then he had a heart attack.

Ominously the photo opportunity shows them drinking Tennents Lager and not cask ale, which shows a disturbing lack of awareness for The POW tradition that he trumpets about in the rest of the article.

Be interesting to see what happens, but expect the other bars (with the possible exception of The Bells), back on the market real soon.

[Camie]

This is great news but I sincerely they hope they leave the POW alone as it certainly is one of Aberdeen's finest.

[Guest tv tanned]

The only way they can make this work is to sell off the other bars and retain the POW. Right now they have borrowed a large sum of money from *SHUDDER* The Clydesdale Bank' date=' and the interest on that is going to kill them.

Assuming that they sell the other places and pay off the loan, then it gets a little easier, but The POW is going to struggle to justify it's price tag. Right now The POW is at the top of it's game, so there's not much scope to increase revenues or profits. It's a bad strategy to by a business with little or no room for improvement because the only way is down.

One guy I know of bought a struggling restaurant for 250K. He built up trade and sold it a few years later for 1M when interests rates were low (like they are now), the new owners took out a huge loan to fund the purchase. The banks put interest rates up (when these are low then the only way is up), the loan repayments increased. The new owner had to cut back on things like staff, quality of produce, portion size. The business started to decline. This made it even harder to pay back the loan. Eventually they started losing money big time. All the customers drifted away. The place went to rat shit. The original owner then bought it back for 250K. He repeated the exact smae trick twice more, netting in excess of 2M in the space of 15 years. Then he had a heart attack.

Ominously the photo opportunity shows them drinking Tennents Lager and not cask ale, which shows a disturbing lack of awareness for The POW tradition that he trumpets about in the rest of the article.

Be interesting to see what happens, but expect the other bars (with the possible exception of The Bells), back on the market real soon.[/quote']

My understanding is that there are 3 or 4 floors above the bar which are at present unused and could be developed. Possibly in the same style as O'Neill's or another way.

I think that may be something which will come onto the horizon in the future.

Of course the fact that the Marrs are basically a couple of gangsters doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, nor does the fact that any venue they own tends to be extremely tacky and utterly rubbish.

[Guest DustyDeviada]

Of course the fact that the Marrs are basically a couple of gangsters doesn't exactly fill me with confidence' date=' nor does the fact that any venue they own tends to be extremely tacky and utterly rubbish.[/quote']

Don't they own the Malt Mill?

*waits for Danny Doubt to leap to the Malt Mill's defence*

[Chris]

Don't they own the Malt Mill?

They did for a pretty short period of time, but they sold it last year.

[Flash@TMB]

Don't they own the Malt Mill?

*waits for Danny Doubt to leap to the Malt Mill's defence*

I heard they originally had plans to turn The Malt Mill into a sports bar but then thought better of it.