ID Cards?

[2 minutes of hate]

I.D cards are a stupid idea our personal details are shared and can be easily monitored already. Whats the point in paying god knows how much for something we already have.

We should pull out all our troops from iraq there is no logic what so ever behind the crusaders of freedom "war on terror". if we kill them they are going to kill us, who would of thought that would happen if you start a war!

[Snakebite]

They're no more an infringement on privacy than a national insurance number' date=' driving license or passport.

One card with all the information required rather than loads of cards busting out your wallet. Hard to get unless your completely legit., in the same way as passport. Improved security, with a reduction in beurocracy and cost to the tax payer, so funds can be channeled out of the civil service into schools and hospitals. I think ID cards are a good idea.[/quote']

I whole heartedly agree with this. The government already holds information on every UK citizen and the only additional information that the government will hold on the population when ID cards are introduced is your biometric information i.e. fingerprint facial scan & probably a retinal scan as well.

Even if ID cards are blocked from being implemented biometric information will still be required for New Passport applications within the next couple of years so that the UK population can travel freely between other countries that are insisting on getting access to this information i.e. USA. To get into the US now with passports issued within the last year you are required to get a Visa from the US embassy at which time they take your biometric details. Even if you still qualify for the visa waiver programme they still take this information when you land in the US and go through immigration.

The only people that I know that should be afraid of ID cards are the ones who may have broken the law at some point in their lives but never got caught because the fingerprints left at the scene of the crime couldnt be matched to them.

When ID cards are finally introduced biometric data may be used to solve old crimes, of which I do not have any problems with if say for instance it takes murderers that were never caught off of the streets and into prison.

The other benefit of ID cards will be that eventually you will need one to get a job therefore it will deter asylum seekers from entering the UK illegally to get work since it will be very difficult to duplicate these cards unlike the National insurance cards of which TV reporters have shown that they can buy these in the black market.

Yes ID cards on their own will not stop terrorism, but there are many more measures that are being put in place. The civil liberties issue shouldnt be too much of a problem unless you arent who you are claiming to be if stopped by police. My question is why shouldnt the police have the right to ask you to prove who you are? The ID card makes it simple for you to prove who you are so they can leave you in peace as long as your not breaking the law.

In todays world with terrorism round every corner everyone, including the police need to be vigilant about what is happening around them on a daily basis and maybe the ID card is one of the ways to ensure our streets are kept safe from harm by ensuring every UK citizen can prove who they are, which will hopefully make it harder for these terrorists to blend into our communities undetected.

As far as the events that took place on thursday in london I believe the emergency services did the best they could and responded in a very professional and precise manner. My thanks go out to them for being able to more than cope with this disaster.

The terrorists that have caused this terrible disaster cannot be called true muslims and should not be branded as such since they defy the islamic belief of peace. Please citizens of the UK do not blame the muslim population within the UK. The people that carried out these attacks are extremists that will stop at nothing to strike terror, fear & division in our communities with no regards for human life. They are believers of a warped and evil terrorist Osama bin laden and should not be associated with true muslims.

Finally my condolenses go out to all of the people in the UK that have lost loved ones in this tradgedy. I hope that the perpretrators will be caught and that justice will be done in due course.

[Frosty Jack]

They're no more an infringement on privacy than a national insurance number' date=' driving license or passport.

One card with all the information required rather than loads of cards busting out your wallet. Hard to get unless your completely legit., in the same way as passport. Improved security, with a reduction in beurocracy and cost to the tax payer, so funds can be channeled out of the civil service into schools and hospitals. I think ID cards are a good idea.[/quote']

I wasn't going to bother commenting on this until I saw this -

I whole heartedly agree with this.

p

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a 'reduction in bureaucracy'? How?

and 'cost to the tax payer?' if you're worried about the weight of your wallet' date=' 15 - 20 [b']billion pounds will certainly make your wallet lighter, right enough...

[soundian]

I whole heartedly agree with this. The government already holds information on every UK citizen and the only additional information that the government will hold on the population when ID cards are introduced is your biometric information i.e. fingerprint facial scan & probably a retinal scan as well.

Even if ID cards are blocked from being implemented biometric information will still be required for New Passport applications within the next couple of years so that the UK population can travel freely between other countries that are insisting on getting access to this information i.e. USA. To get into the US now with passports issued within the last year you are required to get a Visa from the US embassy at which time they take your biometric details. Even if you still qualify for the visa waiver programme they still take this information when you land in the US and go through immigration.

The only people that I know that should be afraid of ID cards are the ones who may have broken the law at some point in their lives but never got caught because the fingerprints left at the scene of the crime couldnt be matched to them.

When ID cards are finally introduced biometric data may be used to solve old crimes' date=' of which I do not have any problems with if say for instance it takes murderers that were never caught off of the streets and into prison.

The other benefit of ID cards will be that eventually you will need one to get a job therefore it will deter asylum seekers from entering the UK illegally to get work since it will be very difficult to duplicate these cards unlike the National insurance cards of which TV reporters have shown that they can buy these in the black market.

Yes ID cards on their own will not stop terrorism, but there are many more measures that are being put in place. The civil liberties issue shouldnt be too much of a problem unless you arent who you are claiming to be if stopped by police. My question is why shouldnt the police have the right to ask you to prove who you are? The ID card makes it simple for you to prove who you are so they can leave you in peace as long as your not breaking the law.

In todays world with terrorism round every corner everyone, including the police need to be vigilant about what is happening around them on a daily basis and maybe the ID card is one of the ways to ensure our streets are kept safe from harm by ensuring every UK citizen can prove who they are, which will hopefully make it harder for these terrorists to blend into our communities undetected.

As far as the events that took place on thursday in london I believe the emergency services did the best they could and responded in a very professional and precise manner. My thanks go out to them for being able to more than cope with this disaster.

The terrorists that have caused this terrible disaster cannot be called true muslims and should not be branded as such since they defy the islamic belief of peace. Please citizens of the UK do not blame the muslim population within the UK. The people that carried out these attacks are extremists that will stop at nothing to strike terror, fear & division in our communities with no regards for human life. They are believers of a warped and evil terrorist Osama bin laden and should not be associated with true muslims.

Finally my condolenses go out to all of the people in the UK that have lost loved ones in this tradgedy. I hope that the perpretrators will be caught and that justice will be done in due course.[/quote']

My kingdom for a comma? That's harder to read than BNP pamphlets.

[Snakebite]

I wasn't going to bother commenting on this until I saw this -

a 'reduction in bureaucracy'? How?

and 'cost to the tax payer?' if you're worried about the weight of your wallet' date=' 15 - 20 [b']billion pounds will certainly make your wallet lighter, right enough...

The ID card will be used for the following: Provide Proof of ID & age, It is intended that it will be used alongside your passport so that it doesn't need to have biometric information on it as well. Will probably replace the National insurance card as proof of entitlement to benefits from the state.

Eventually it will be used to give access to Council Facilities i.e. Library, Access to Leisure etc. It will also probably be used to do credit checks by financial institutions.

It may even be used eventually to replace the driving licence.

This in turn will mean that the general public will carry only one form of ID for everything.

Yes, it does mean that all of this information that the government already has stored about you will be compiled into a secure central database which will cost money to setup and the biometric hardware & software will cost money initially. The main reason for the costs is to ensure the information that is gathered is stored securely so it cannot be misused or hacked into.

Once it is up and running the actual running costs overall for the different government departments (i.e. police, MI5, benefits office, passport office & dvla etc) will be less since they will be able to access information about you more efficiently since everything will be electronic and centrlaised in one location. The initial 15-20 billion spent on setting it up should then be recovered, so say after the next 15 years goverment departments will cost less to run saving the UK taxpayers money that can be spent on more important things like health & education. Even if ID cards are not brought in this secure central database of information will, if only to reduce government department overheads in the long term.

Okay some people will say this is a breach of your civil liberites, but the government already has this information on you already. The only difference will be is that they will be able to tie it to a photograph (unless you already have a passport or photo driving licence of which they will have it already) & your biometric information.

The other point about civil liberties is that people argue is that the state will know what bank acounts you have, any credit you have etc etc. If the police or MI5 wanted to they can get this information on you anyway using current less efficient methods. But if you are not commiting a crime why should it be a problem. The only people that should fear this are the ones that are breaking the law.

Putting terrorism aside for one minute, on a national level it will be more difficult to commit fraud since you will need your ID card to get credit, people wont be able to run and hide to avoid paying debts since you wont be able to do anything with needing to use your ID card. This will in turn help reduce insurance premiums, and credit interest rates for the majority of people.

With regards to the biometric information (i.e. fingerprints) being put to good use criminals wont be able to get away with their crimes since it will be able to be used to convict them.

I'm not saying it will be cheap initially but over time it will make life easier and cheaper for the majority of people in the UK, irrespective of their ethnic background.

The bureaucracy will over time will reduce since the different government departments will stop using several different systems (both paper & electronic) which is both time consuming and repetitive when transfering information between departments. Instead they will use one system for everything meaning the same information only has to entered once instead of several times therefore saving time and money which can then be better used elsewhere.

[lepeep]

The other benefit of ID cards will be that eventually you will need one to get a job therefore it will deter asylum seekers from entering the UK illegally to get work since it will be very difficult to duplicate these cards unlike the National insurance cards of which TV reporters have shown that they can buy these in the black market.

I liked this bit, it's nice to think that it's only nasty smelly "asylum seekers*" that steal our jobs, and our country is only filled with the salt of the earth, I mean , there can't be any british people who want to exploit cheap (if not FREE) labour from people who come here looking for a better life.

"don't come to britain, we'll exploit, extort and make you life just as much a living hell as in your own country, so fuck off".

Here's to the British, being the only good, honest guys on this stinking earth.

*clink*

Does anyone know the stats on UK natives and benefit fraud ?......ah, best not go there, eh.

* PS, Also note the use of "asylum seekers" in mr Snakebites shit, ah, how ignorant can someone get ?

"ach, asylum seker ? Illegal immigrant ? they're all the fucking same, aren't they ?"

[lepeep]

The ID card will be used for the following: Provide Proof of ID & age' date=' It is intended that it will be used alongside your passport so that it doesn't need to have biometric information on it as well. Will probably replace the National insurance card as proof of entitlement to benefits from the state.

Eventually it will be used to give access to Council Facilities i.e. Library, Access to Leisure etc. It will also probably be used to do credit checks by financial institutions.

It may even be used eventually to replace the driving licence.

This in turn will mean that the general public will carry only one form of ID for everything.

Yes, it does mean that all of this information that the government already has stored about you will be compiled into a secure central database which will cost money to setup and the biometric hardware & software will cost money initially. The main reason for the costs is to ensure the information that is gathered is stored securely so it cannot be misused or hacked into.

Once it is up and running the actual running costs overall for the different government departments (i.e. police, MI5, benefits office, passport office & dvla etc) will be less since they will be able to access information about you more efficiently since everything will be electronic and centrlaised in one location. The initial 15-20 billion spent on setting it up should then be recovered, so say after the next 15 years goverment departments will cost less to run saving the UK taxpayers money that can be spent on more important things like health & education. Even if ID cards are not brought in this secure central database of information will, if only to reduce government department overheads in the long term.

Okay some people will say this is a breach of your civil liberites, but the government already has this information on you already. The only difference will be is that they will be able to tie it to a photograph (unless you already have a passport or photo driving licence of which they will have it already) & your biometric information.

The other point about civil liberties is that people argue is that the state will know what bank acounts you have, any credit you have etc etc. If the police or MI5 wanted to they can get this information on you anyway using current less efficient methods. But if you are not commiting a crime why should it be a problem. The only people that should fear this are the ones that are breaking the law.

Putting terrorism aside for one minute, on a national level it will be more difficult to commit fraud since you will need your ID card to get credit, people wont be able to run and hide to avoid paying debts since you wont be able to do anything with needing to use your ID card. This will in turn help reduce insurance premiums, and credit interest rates for the majority of people.

With regards to the biometric information (i.e. fingerprints) being put to good use criminals wont be able to get away with their crimes since it will be able to be used to convict them.

I'm not saying it will be cheap initially but over time it will make life easier and cheaper for the majority of people in the UK, irrespective of their ethnic background.

The bureaucracy will over time will reduce since the different government departments will stop using several different systems (both paper & electronic) which is both time consuming and repetitive when transfering information between departments. Instead they will use one system for everything meaning the same information only has to entered once instead of several times therefore saving time and money which can then be better used elsewhere.[/quote']

to coin the well used phrase

Don't put all your eggs in one basket

I think there must be a reason for that, no ?

[spellchecker]

well, if we do all get identity cards, i can't wait to hack mine so i can get OAP concessions! the reader/writer kits should be on ebay in no time!

[Snakebite]

I liked this bit' date=' it's nice to think that it's only nasty smelly "asylum seekers*" that steal our jobs, and our country is only filled with the salt of the earth, I mean , there can't be any british people who want to exploit cheap (if not FREE) labour from people who come here looking for a better life.

"don't come to britain, we'll exploit, extort and make you life just as much a living hell as in your own country, so fuck off".

Here's to the British, being the only good, honest guys on this stinking earth.

*clink*

Does anyone know the stats on UK natives and benefit fraud ?......ah, best not go there, eh.

* PS, Also note the use of "asylum seekers" in mr Snakebites shit, ah, how ignorant can someone get ?

"ach, asylum seker ? Illegal immigrant ? they're all the fucking same, aren't they ?"[/quote']

I disagree, there is a difference between genuine asylum seekers and illegal immigrants.

The majority of Illegal immigrants are normally people that are coming into the UK because of economic need rather than fearing for their lives and persecution. These are the people that the government is trying to stop.

Genuine asylum seekers should have no fear of coming to the UK and we should welcome them in their hour of need.

Only racists or BNP activists (although there isnt any difference between them because they are the same, to use lepeeps analogy) will tar geniune asylum seekers, illegal immigrants and the entire ethnic population of the UK with the same brush. Which I believe is wrong.

!!!RACISM IS THE LOWEST FORM OF SOCIETY AND SHOULD BE ERRADICATED!!!

The issue with exploitation will hopefully be reduced by the introduction of ID cards since it will deter the number of economic illegal immigrants from coming into the UK in the first place.

The use of biometric information will also hopefully help to prosecute those who wish to exploit other human beings.

Also since when are genuine asylum seekers stealing our jobs. As far as I can tell in the UK there is a huge skills shortage. We need genuine immigrants to move to the UK to work (this includes genuine Asylum seekers) to fill the skills gap.

The UK is in short supply of doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers & technicians of various disciplines to name but a few.

One reason for the skills shortage is the growing yob culture where by they would rather get drugged up & pissed than actually get a enough of an education to get a skilled trade.

Where the Job market is flooded at the moment is the unskilled workforce where by no qualifications or skills are required. Im guessing this is where you think people are stealing our jobs.

My response to this is go to college or University to get a skill/trade so that you can get a job instead of being a yob.

[Snakebite]

well' date=' if we do all get identity cards, i can't wait to hack mine so i can get OAP concessions! the reader/writer kits should be on ebay in no time![/quote']

Sorry to disappoint but i think you will still have to look like an OAP and your data of birth will be physically written on the card which will be difficult to forge.

[Snakebite]

to coin the well used phrase

Don't put all your eggs in one basket

I think there must be a reason for that' date=' no ?[/quote']

I'm guessing the computer age and the Internet is somewhat putting an end to it in the form that, what is one basket. Is it a PC? if so then why not put it on several PC's.

Im sure that they wont put this database on just one server, it will have redundant systems in place to stop it from falling over completely at the first hurdle

Take the EU for instance Common Vehicle licence documents,the European Health card etc, all of this information will be accessed throught the whole of the EU from a common secure database system (albeit one system for each item for the moment) and no one is even batting an eyelid about that.

[Alkaline]

Well just about every other western country with a solid infrastructure manages fine with ID cards so there's no reason why we shouldn't. They also have them in Australia. I don't see how they infringe on peoples rights, in my eyes they are no different from passports and driving licenses.

[lepeep]

Last edited by Snakebite : Today at 00:37.

you fucking love that button, eh.

[lepeep]

I'm guessing the computer age and the Internet is somewhat putting an end to it in the form that' date=' what is one basket. Is it a PC? if so then why not put it on several PC's.[/quote']

and you have one pass word and one log on for everything...

I hope they steal your identity first and drain your bank account.

[lepeep]

My response to this is go to college or University to get a skill/trade so that you can get a job instead of being a yob.

igrnorance is bliss, eh mr bite.

I am currently working IN LONDON.

nowt like jumping to conclusions and talking shite on the internet about things you know fuck all about.

S T U P I D - C U N T.

[Snakebite]

and you have one pass word and one log on for everything...

I hope they steal your identity first and drain your bank account.

Sorry did I miss something or did you not really have anything constructive to say

Are you a member of the BNP by any chance?

Is your KKK hood hanging up in your closet?

[Snakebite]

igrnorance is bliss' date=' eh mr bite.

I am currently working IN LONDON.

nowt like jumping to conclusions and talking shite on the internet about things you know fuck all about.

S T U P I D - C U N T.[/quote']

So who's stealing your job then? since you seem to think someone is.

Are you crap at it is that it?

In fear of someone better coming along and putting you out of work.

[Lins]

Sorry did I miss something or did you not really have anything constructive to say

Are you a member of the BNP by any chance?

Is your KKK hood hanging up in your closet?

can someone MOD this load of shit please?

Thanks x

[2 minutes of hate]

i hate the word yob its disgusting. People use it to point and divert addressing the issues at hand, its easy to call someone a yob just because you don know how to fix the problems of normal people.

The i.d cards thing like i said earlyer is a stupid idea, no i dont think they infringe on our rights anymore than bank cards and passports however if this much stuff is infinging on our personal information already whats the point in paying shit loads of moola for them to know what they already know.

[Frosty Jack]

Current estimate of cost for this scheme is presently between about 15 - 20 billion pounds. The only way this is going to be possible is by charging everyone at least 200 per card. How many people are going to willingly pay that much for something which offers nothing that we don't have already? That means the running costs of chasing up people without cards will be consistently huge. Not to mention the running costs to produce new and replacement cards with such complicated technology.

The technology. Will it work? "No scheme on this scale has been undertaken anywhere in the world. Smaller and less ambitious schemes have encountered substantial technological and operational problems that are likely to be amplified in a large-scale national system. The use of biometrics creates particular concerns, because this technology has never been used at such a scale."

Security. Will the scheme increase security? No system can be entirely secure, and if this one is compromised, it's going to be a virtual one-stop shop for identity fraud. Everything the villains need in one go. And what happens if someone does nick your biometric information? If your bank details are copied they can be changed. Even your passport can be cancelled and changed. But you can't change your biometrics. Once someone has them, they can be you for life.

Tell me why this is worth doing again?

[Guest tv tanned]

Recent high profile issues such as the tax credit fuck up, the passport fuck up, the CSA fuck up and the immigration office fuck up (all technology based services) should really have set alarm bells ringing on this one.

I mean, it took three attempts for me to get a replacement driver's licence that didn't have someone else's photo or signature on it!!!!

[Daniel]

why? Do they have the question "Are you a terrorist?" on them?

ID cards are an infringement on our right to privacy.

so i take it you dont have a; passport, driving licence, credit cards, morgage? becuase they already have most of the info that Id cards will have.

[Guest tv tanned]

so i take it you dont have a; passport' date=' driving licence, credit cards, morgage? becuase they already have most of the info that Id cards will have.[/quote']

so why spend 15-20 billion for something we already have?

[Guest tv tanned]

OK folks.

Pop quiz.

Who said this in 1995?

"Instead of wasting hundreds of millions of pounds on compulsory ID cards as the Tory Right demand, let that money provide thousands more police officers on the beat in our local communities"

[BlackFrancis]

No Doubt it was MR. Blair or some other Labour member.