ID Cards?

[The Milner]

Thats what the 15-20 Billion budget is for.

to be honest considering what they need to do, do you not think that is a rather unrealistic budget? We're not talking ordinary run of the mill technology here, and as ian says what about the running costs after it has been set up something like this will take millions and millions to run a year.

[soundian]

to be honest considering what they need to do' date=' do you not think that is a rather unrealistic budget? We're not talking ordinary run of the mill technology here, and as ian says what about the running costs after it has been set up something like this will take millions and millions to run a year.[/quote']

And also that they won't wipe out all crime, just some of the most basic credit card and benefit fraud. Credit card companies can go whistle if they think I'm paying for a system to help them make more profits.

[Snakebite]

Never mind the central database (CSA anyone) to integrate it all. Which no-one will be able to hack in to.

And I suppose every criminal will have several supercomputers in their back pocket to hack into this database. how long will it take them? Probably not quick enough before the encryption key is changed.

Access to the database will require biometric information from someone that is authorised to use the scanning terminals on top of the encryption key.

Even then you will most likely only get limited read only access and the database will log it.

Im also sure the database will not transmit the biometric information to the person enquiring about someones identity, it will only confirm it.

[Snakebite]

And also that they won't wipe out all crime' date=' just some of the most basic credit card and benefit fraud. Credit card companies can go whistle if they think I'm paying for a system to help them make more profits.[/quote']

What about the elimination of benefit fraud which in turn will reduce your taxes

[soundian]

And I suppose every criminal will have several supercomputers in their back pocket to hack into this database. how long will it take them? Probably not quick enough before the encryption key is changed.

Access to the database will require biometric information from someone that is authorised to use the scanning terminals on top of the encryption key.

Even then you will most likely only get limited read only access and the database will log it.

Im also sure the database will not transmit the biometric information to the person enquiring about someones identity' date=' it will only confirm it.[/quote']

Is this your first computer?

Yes, the database will log it, unless you go back and delete it from the logs!

It will need something confirmed, it'll probably be trapdoor encryption, which means once you have ripped the password files (and covered your tracks by deleting your intrusion from the logs) you can work at them at your leisure.

Read some about computer (in)secutrity before harping on about some panacea which will never work in a safe and practical manner in the real world. Waste of fucking money!!!!

[Snakebite]

to be honest considering what they need to do' date=' do you not think that is a rather unrealistic budget? We're not talking ordinary run of the mill technology here, and as ian says what about the running costs after it has been set up something like this will take millions and millions to run a year.[/quote']

But thats the point it will make government departments cheaper to operate since they all will use the same system instead of 30 or so different ones.

The cost saved by reducing fraud due organised crime alone comes to about 20 billion a year.

Therefore in the long run we should pay less taxes or pay the same and get improved health & education services etc.

[soundian]

But thats the point it will make government departments cheaper to operate since they all will use the same system instead of 30 or so different ones.

And the whole country grinds to a halt the second some Al-Queda IT guy or some script kiddie hacks the one system.

[Snakebite]

Is this your first computer?

Yes' date=' the database will log it, unless you go back and delete it from the logs!

It will need something confirmed, it'll probably be trapdoor encryption, which means once you have ripped the password files (and covered your tracks by deleting your intrusion from the logs) you can work at them at your leisure.

Read some about computer (in)secutrity before harping on about some panacea which will never work in a safe and practical manner in the real world. Waste of fucking money!!!![/quote']

And im sure that the people involved in putting this database together have already thought of that and done something to prevent it from happening. Best way of preventing it from being hacked is to apply security measures using the hackers point of view of what if. Unless you think they are thick i dont think it will be that easy.

[soundian]

Unless you think they are thick i dont think it will be that easy.

You don't think it'll be that easy, but still possible. That's the point, if even one person can hack into the system it becomes worthless.

[Snakebite]

You don't think it'll be that easy' date=' but still possible. That's the point, if even one person can hack into the system it becomes worthless.[/quote']

But it aint going to be some joe bloggs with a home PC. Several supercomputers may still not be enough to give a short enough turnaround in cracking it before the encryption changes which will probably be on a by minute basis i.e rotating security code whereby authorised persons are given a rotating keycode card which matches the current security code for that particular minute. Is used already by large companies like AMEC for remote user access to their systems. if one is stolen it could be changed to a backup rotating keycode card system within a few hours which isnt enough time for someone to use the information on it to hack into it.

[soundian]

But it aint going to be some joe bloggs with a home PC. Several supercomputers may still not be enough to give a short enough turnaround in cracking it before the encryption changes which will probably be on a by minute basis i.e rotating security code whereby authorised persons are given a rotating keycode card which matches the current security code for that particular minute. Is used already by large companies like AMEC for remote user access to their systems. if one is stolen it could be changed to a backup rotating keycode card system within a few hours which isnt enough time for someone to use the information on it to hack into it.

Which is all perfectly OK, but not perfect.

Obviously everyone working there will have impeccable ID card stats. You really have no idea about security, do you?

[Snakebite]

Which is all perfectly OK' date=' but not perfect.

Obviously everyone working there will have impeccable ID card stats. You really have no idea about security, do you?[/quote']

The only people that will have any sort of access to your biometric information will be the security services. Even those people that will scan in the information at the passport office wont be able to read what they have scanned in.

You have to remember that there will be several levels of user access & security protocols and only the highest levels of user will get access to your biometric data. Okay governments and security services could be infiltrated but access will be limited to only a few who will have been thoroughly vetted.

[soundian]

The only people that will have any sort of access to your biometric information will be the security services. Even those people that will scan in the information at the passport office wont be able to read what they have scanned in.

You have to remember that there will be several levels of user access & security protocols and only the highest levels of user will get access to your biometric data. Okay governments and security services could be infiltrated but access will be limited to only a few who will have been thoroughly vetted.

Any computer is vulnerable as long as it's connected to a network, the only way to make it invulnerable is to disconnect it or, better still, turn it off.

You're either the stupidest person who spouts big words I've ever met, or you're winding me up. I suspect it's the latter.

[Hugh_Jazz]

The only people that will have any sort of access to your biometric information will be the security services. Even those people that will scan in the information at the passport office wont be able to read what they have scanned in.

You have to remember that there will be several levels of user access & security protocols and only the highest levels of user will get access to your biometric data. Okay governments and security services could be infiltrated but access will be limited to only a few who will have been thoroughly vetted.

Load of WANK. How the fuck do you possibly know that? Qualify one word of that.....go on, i dare you, i double dare you!

[Snakebite]

I can see the following security protocols possibly being put in place with probably some more that I haven't thought of yet.

1. Unique Scanning terminal ID number
   
2. Dedicated data link address cross referenced against unique terminal ID for identification
   
3. list of authorised Users of tied to the unique terminal ID
   
4. Rotating Keycode card which changes on a by minute basis which will probably have it's own encryption protocols
   
5. Biometric information used along with maybe a personal pin number for each authorised user on top of the rotating keycode to gain access
   
6. High level of Public/Private key encryption thas uses the rotating keycode information to generate the encryption keys to transmit your data for verification
   

[Snakebite]

Load of WANK. How the fuck do you possibly know that? Qualify one word of that.....go on' date=' i dare you, i double dare you![/quote']

If I can think of it, and im only taking a basic logical approach to this, then im sure the people that are implementing the system have already thought of it.

The rotating keycode systems do exist, AMEC for one uses it already. The rest is just common sense if you think about how to make it secure.

[The Milner]

haha your living in a dream world mate, do you not remember not so long ago some guy in glasgow hacked into nasa? Nothing is unhackable i dont care how fancy you make it sound. No matter what security mesures they put in it will still be possible to break into the system and that is the whole problem. Doesnt matter who can do it just that its possible.

[Frosty Jack]

And im sure that the people involved in putting this database together have already thought of that and done something to prevent it from happening.

Yes. Yes, I'm sure they have. Well that's me reassured.

Come on. Truth now. Who do you work for? How much bullshit are they feeding you? And why are you believing it all, to the extent that you're disseminating it here as irrefutable fact?

[Snakebite]

Yes. Yes' date=' I'm sure they have. Well that's me reassured.

Come on. Truth now. Who do you work for? How much bullshit are they feeding you? And why are you believing it all, to the extent that you're disseminating it here as irrefutable fact?[/quote']

It's bloody common sense if you look at it from a logical point of view. Okay Im not an IT Security Boffin but im a logical thinker which is enough for me to figure out whats required to be put in place for ID cards to work.

You seem to believe everyone that works for the government or just all of these IT folk that work for the government are completely daft with no common sense.

They're spending enough money on the system that I would hope that there was at least one person with a brain that will already have thought about what i've mentioned already. If you think not then your expectations for the british people must be very low.

How's about having some faith that not everyone is incompetent. Say for yourself do you believe your competent in what your good at. If yes, then why cant someone else be as well.

The technology for that type of encryption system is in existence it just has to be used right with the appropiate number and types of identifiers and access keys to keep the information from prying eyes.

How many times has say the Nuclear arsenal been hacked into therefore allowing someone to launch a missile? The answer is none of any significance since we havent ever had any nuclear missiles launched by a hacker. Thats because someone with a brain has thought it through.

[Guest tv tanned]

It's bloody common sense if you look at it from a logical point of view. Okay Im not an IT Security Boffin but im a logical thinker which is enough for me to figure out whats required to be put in place for ID cards to work.

Translation: I don't know what I'm talking about.

You seem to believe everyone that works for the government or just all of these IT folk that work for the government are completely daft with no common sense.

Translation: CSA? Tax Credits? Passport Office? Immigration Service? Sorry I missed these as my fingers were in my ears and I was shouting "la la la la la la"

They're spending enough money on the system that I would hope that there was at least one person with a brain that will already have thought about what i've mentioned already. If you think not then your expectations for the british people must be very low.

Translation: They're going to waste billions on this shit.

How's about having some faith that not everyone is incompetent. Say for yourself do you believe your competent in what your good at. If yes' date=' then why cant someone else be as well.[/quote']

Translation: I'm clutching at straws now, save me...

The technology for that type of encryption system is in existence it just has to be used right with the appropiate number and types of identifiers and access keys to keep the information from prying eyes.

Translation: I alkready said I know nothing about IT, well here's the proof.

How many times has say the Nuclear arsenal been hacked into therefore allowing someone to launch a missile? The answer is none of any significance since we havent ever had any nuclear missiles launched by a hacker. Thats because someone with a brain has thought it through.

Translation: What do you mean War Games was just a movie?

[Snakebite]

Either you woke up this morning with part of your brain missing or you have even less of a clue and are just ranting on because you havent looked at the facts with a logical viewpoint.

Okay you believe that everyone is incompetent and everything is flawed, that is your opinion is it not. So are you incompetent? if not why not? Then use that same reasoning for other people that might also be competent and what do you get someone that can actually do their job well believe it or not and actually make things work properly

[Hugh_Jazz]

Translation: I don't know what I'm talking about.

Translation: CSA? Tax Credits? Passport Office? Immigration Service? Sorry I missed these as my fingers were in my ears and I was shouting "la la la la la la"

Translation: They're going to waste billions on this shit.

Translation: I'm clutching at straws now' date=' save me...

Translation: I alkready said I know nothing about IT, well here's the proof.

Translation: What do you mean War Games was just a movie?[/quote']

Another patronising, idiotic post from you. Do you have to be such a colossal prick about every single post?? You're so blinded by your own cynicism and resentment to ID cards, you're not even prepared to enter into discussion about anything. Your entitled to an opinion as much as the next guy, but that's all it is...an opinion. Your's isn't right or wrong, so stop steamrollering everyone else.

On reflection, Snakebite actually makes one or two decent points there. While his assurance that everything will be 100%-secure is by no means guaranteed, it does raise one interesting point. Most of us have internet banking accounts, secured by supposedly secure computer systems. We all buy stuff with supposedly secure online retailers. How much do we all worry about the security of that information - ie. bank account details, names, addresses etc?? We dont.

[Guest tv tanned]

Your entitled to an opinion as much as the next guy' date=' but that's all it is...an opinion. Your's isn't right or wrong, so stop steamrollering everyone else.[/quote']

There's something ironic about that statement, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Oh wait, here it is.

Another patronising, idiotic post from you. Do you have to be such a colossal prick about every single post?? You're so blinded by your own cynicism and resentment to ID cards, you're not even prepared to enter into discussion about anything.

I actually have discussed it, it was a flippant post granted, but I am dubious as to what you are seeking to achieve by flinging out personal insults. I haven't resorted to such tactics.

[Guest tv tanned]

Either you woke up this morning with part of your brain missing or you have even less of a clue and are just ranting on because you havent looked at the facts with a logical viewpoint.

Shit!!! And I thought it was a blob of wax that fell out of my ear in the bath...

Okay you believe that everyone is incompetent and everything is flawed' date=' that is your opinion is it not. So are you incompetent? if not why not? Then use that same reasoning for other people that might also be competent and what do you get someone that can actually do their job well believe it or not and actually make things work properly[/quote']

OK, for the umpteenth time, I am not accusing individuals of incompetence here, but if you look at the precedent of large scale government IT projects, there are a litany of failures, glitches and hideous errors.

Now you can put your faith in the individual and the system if you want to.

My maxim on this is rather simple.

People make mistakes. No system is flawless.

On that basis, I am reluctant to entrust my identity to individual people and individual systems.

My competence doesn't enter into it. You cannot say, for example.

Bob, the street sweeper is competent at his job, ergo Bill the nuclear physicist will be competent at his.

That is not logic, it's a leap of faith. You might be prepared to make it, I am not.

[Hugh_Jazz]

Shit!!! And I thought it was a blob of wax that fell out of my ear in the bath...

OK' date=' for the umpteenth time, I am not accusing individuals of incompetence here, but if you look at the precedent of large scale government IT projects, there are a litany of failures, glitches and hideous errors.

Now you can put your faith in the individual and the system if you want to.

My maxim on this is rather simple.

People make mistakes. No system is flawless.

On that basis, I am reluctant to entrust my identity to individual people and individual systems.

My competence doesn't enter into it. You cannot say, for example.

Bob, the street sweeper is competent at his job, ergo Bill the nuclear physicist will be competent at his.

That is not logic, it's a leap of faith. You might be prepared to make it, I am not.[/quote']

Do you have an internet bank account?

Do you ever buy anything online?

If the answer is yes, then YOU ALREADY HAVE entrusted your identity to these people.