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For Once I'm Agreeing with the House of Lords...


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Thank heavens for the House of Lords....

Since when do governments pass laws based on hysteria and scaremongering? All this talk of "sleeper cells" in the UK reeks of shite.

These laws are a product of paranoia. We are undergoing a period of history that will, in years to come, be compared with the anti-communist hysteria that dominated US headlines in the 1950's. Been there, done that. Let's move on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4335197.stm

What do you think of the proposed anti-terror laws?

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i reckon its crap, i think they dont have a clue whats going on in reality.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=566425&page=1 - the FBI knows of no Al-Qaeda sleeper cells in the US.

but thats ok, the uk has good intelligence...al-qaeda has 200 on the uk streets...this headline says:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4322611.stm

or wait, is that up to 200 like the line after it says??

or is it 100 - http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=684422&src=UK_DskTopTkr/GetContent

corporate media lies and so on...

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i can sympathise with tony blair to an extent because he's got to be shitting himself. if anything did happen terrorism-wise, he'd be fucked and it would all land on his shoulders. nonetheless, i do think there is a certain fragrance of shite in the air and passing these laws seems ridiculous. imagine someone who was under house arrest forever more!! great entertainment. you'd be completing 2player halo on your own, even on 'legendary' mode in about a month or two!

spoons

/x

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Guest tv tanned
Does anyone else find it somewhat ironic that this thread started on the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings?

I'm guessing that the families of the people that died that day wish that the Spanish government took similar action before the tragedy occurred.

I hope this bill goes through. Even if it stops one attack on this country on a similar or greater scale' date=' it will be worth it.[/quote']

Aye, and has there been a clamour for the new government of Spain to strip away civil liberties to prevent further attacks?

Has there fuck.

They have recognised that their involvement in an illegal war in Iraq made them a target, they recognised that ID cards made hee-haw difference and they have not gone to the extent of reducing civil liberties in order to make people feel more secure.

So what does our government do? It remains in Iraq, having redefined the mission as some noble crusade to rid the Iraqi people of a brutal dictator.

A brutal dictator who, by the way, we were willing to allow to remain in power if he gave up his fictional WMD.

They plan to introduce ID cards. Spain has ID cards, they were fucking useless when it came to preventing terrorist atrocities.

They plan to remove key civil liberties and change the justice system to a system where the state assumes guilt and it is incumbent on the accused to prove their innocence of crimes they have not committed, just thought about allegedly, and they don't know the charges being levelled against them. Just that the government has 'evidence' against them but does not need to prove this evidence in a court.

It is bollocks. Utter bollocks. The desperate throes of a paranoid and delusional leader, who thinks he can keep power by scaring the population and labelling other parties 'soft on terrorism'.

Benjamin Franklin said that he who would restrict civil liberties in favour of national security deserves neither.

Suddenly 1984 looks even more prophetic, if 21 years too early in its dating...

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Does anyone else find it somewhat ironic that this thread started on the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings?

I'm guessing that the families of the people that died that day wish that the Spanish government took similar action before the tragedy occurred.

They blamed ETA though, and probably still do.

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Guest Zeenat Aman
...

But it is highly likely that many innocent people will get locked up if this were to be implemented... Innocent until proven guilty should remain the back bone of our justice system.

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Do you really think the British secret service share everything they know about terror and w.o.m.d. with the public?? The clue is in the title of the service ;)

That's a fair enough point - but eventually "secret service" gets to the stage where a government can tell us basically anything it wants in order to accumulate votes - look at the work of the secret service in the 45 minute missile readiness claim. That was a load of tripe.

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Guest Zeenat Aman
e-lec-tion. noun. To give power to the sleaze rather than the strong...

I really look forward to posting all the pre-election crap, keep a look out for it coming through yer doors some time soon(perhaps). Sleaze is heavy on the shoulders, not just the mind/crotch!!!

I'm a postman, incase you hadn't noticed.

:D

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The terror "threat" is an exaggeration. Let's put it this way, if we are in so much danger from these transparently fictitious bogey-men then why on earth did Blair and co. spend so bloody long resolving the matter of fox hunting if terrorism is such an "urgent" matter?

Spin and scaremongering to gain votes. Yet another tough on 'insert vague target here' campaign. It's as predictable as Lenny Henry's Comic Relief routine.

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I really look forward to posting all the pre-election crap' date=' keep a look out for it coming through yer doors some time soon(perhaps). Sleaze is heavy on the shoulders, not just the mind/crotch!!!

I'm a postman, incase you hadn't noticed.

:D[/quote']

Ever take your flute with you, perhaps to play a little ditty while you wait for someone to come to the door when you've got something that needs to be signed for?

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