Most overrated bands/artists ever?

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

Cool.

The book by the Vermorals is I think essential' date=' providing an insiders view of the band. All the folks involved contributed, it written when the band were still together. [/quote']

Shall no doubt buy it at some point, there's so many books about punk but its difficult to buy one that hasn't repeated something thats already been said before.

I haven't read Englands Dreaming, but have heard it's very good.

Its very thorough and painstaking at times and i suppose takes itself just a bit too seriously by delving into too much politics and fashion-related issues as opposed to the music and the characters within the scene itself.

Sniffin Glue: The Essential Punk Accessory? Would this be a collection of those issues Mark Perry produced?

One and the same.

Legs McNeil's Please Kill Me is cool.

Its not a bad book at all, i quite like how it goes into great depth about how damaging the effect of heroin had on their punk scene in New York and how it ended up destroying so seminal figures like Jerry Nolan, Johnny Thunders, Stiv Bators and almost destroyed the likes of Richard Hell and Dee Dee Ramone...it kind of says these people were great great losses to the punk rock scene and they are sorely missed, which they are, its just sad that they went out the way they did.

What did you make of The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle? I still love that movie. Has many great moments.

I got mixed feelings about it, it doesn't seem like its a film that has anything to do with the Pistols, they don't seem entirely involved in it other than to provide the soundtrack. I think Julien Temple even thinks that to this day.

What about movie DOA?

I thought the funniest but most horrifying thing about D.O.A isn't the Pistols' implosion in the U.S of A but more that Oi! pub band Terry & The Idiots forming.

The Stooges? While I appreciate their importance in inspiring many of the early punk putfits, didn't really like them.

The first album is pretty overrated, i never really liked anything other than I Wanna Be Your Dog on that album. Funhouse has got some great songs on it and Raw Power is just amazing, its another one of my essential albums of all-time

The geezer from the UK Subs? Yes, that would be Alvin Gibbs.

Yeah i noticed that after checking the cover of the book, Steve Jones also worked on some of the Instinct album with Iggy Pop, there's a pic of him sporting some rather poodly Bon Jovi-esque hair though

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

Oh come now. You cannot compare The Professionals with The Rich Kids. Did you not rate their first 7" Just Another Dream? Or what about 123? Sure' date=' their album I Didn't See It Coming was terrible.[/quote']

Ain't comparing them to the Rich Kids, just didn't think much of either of those post-Pistols projects. I just didn't think they were doing anything as forward-thinking as what Lydon was doing with PiL, when i listen to Metal Box, it doesn't sound like anything else i have ever heard, its an extraordinary record, i can't think of more superlatives to even big up Metal Box as much more as i can, everything from the lyrics to the sound production and the playing is just like nothing else anyone would ever dare or dream to attempt to pass off as music.

Heard anything by the short lived project with Jimmy Pursey?

Can't say i was ever a Sham 69 fan to be honest with you squire, i was more into the New Wave stuff like Joy Division, Wire, PiL and The Pop Group.

What about Cook and Jones' work with other artists/bands - with Joan Jett, Johnny Thunders, The Banshees, and Gen X?

Can't say that i've heard it, i don't mind the Banshees and The Heartbreakers but i can't say i am their biggest fan and was never really into Generation X either.

Lydon's material post Flowers Of Romance? Yeah, I despise it. It saw his music taking a more commercial and far less interesting route.

I heard some of his solo album Psycho's Path and one of the later PiL albums called Happy! and they really are just utter drivel.

I doubt he'll write lyrics as any of the tracks he wrote on the first PiL album or Metal Box, he totally surpassed anything he wrote in Never Mind The Bollocks just because his writing was so damn more incisive and sarky, there's more venom in a song like Pop Tones or Religion than in Anarchy In The UK i think, i just wish he'd use more of his obvious intelligence like that again but i doubt we'll ever see or hear it.

Can't remember the title of Wobble's first album right now, but yeah, I'd recommend it.

For me, he is truly one of the best bass players i have ever heard and to think that he admitted that he could barely play that well when he made the first two PiL albums is astonishing, either that or he is being well bloody modest!.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

I got mixed feelings about it' date=' it doesn't seem like its a film that has anything to do with the Pistols, they don't seem entirely involved in it other than to provide the soundtrack. I think Julien Temple even thinks that to this day.

I thought the funniest but most horrifying thing about D.O.A isn't the Pistols' implosion in the U.S of A but more that Oi! pub band Terry & The Idiots forming.

[/quote']

Sure, Rotten played no part in the making of The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle, but Cook, Jones, and Vicious did. I guess in a way it's McLaren's movie - you know, this nonsense about his part in the the Pistols creation - their rise to greatness. His great plan. But hey, it's a great great movie.

I'd love to see Temple's second Pistols movie The Filth And The Fury.

Terry And The Idiots? I just could not understand their inclusion in the movie.

[Guest allsystemsfail]

Ain't comparing them to the Rich Kids' date=' just didn't think much of either of those post-Pistols projects. I just didn't think they were doing anything as forward-thinking as what Lydon was doing with PiL, when i listen to Metal Box, it doesn't sound like anything else i have ever heard, its an extraordinary record, i can't think of more superlatives to even big up Metal Box as much more as i can, everything from the lyrics to the sound production and the playing is just like nothing else anyone would ever dare or dream to attempt to pass off as music.

Can't say i was ever a Sham 69 fan to be honest with you squire, i was more into the New Wave stuff like Joy Division, Wire, PiL and The Pop Group.

[/quote']

Sure, The Professionals work was not nearly as forward thinking as Public Image Limited's output. However, they were still nevertheless great.

Sham 69? I'm sorry, maybe I didn't make myself very clear. I was talking about the ill fated project put together by Pursey, Cook, and Jones.

[the_beastly_one]

As the title suggests. I reckon:

Led Zeppelin

Jimi Hendrix

Rolling Stones

Metallica

Stone Roses

Queens of the Stone Age

The Strokes

White Stripes

Soundgarden

Sex Pistols

and Oasis (this thread was inspired by all the nostalgic rubbish about them at the moment)

Hendrix and Soundgarden? In the immortal words of Kev: "Aye OK, fuck off min radge!"

[Skubbs]

As the title suggests. I reckon:

Led Zeppelin

Jimi Hendrix

Rolling Stones

Metallica

Stone Roses

Queens of the Stone Age

The Strokes

White Stripes

Soundgarden

Sex Pistols

and Oasis (this thread was inspired by all the nostalgic rubbish about them at the moment)

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU LISTEN TO THEN? BUSTED?! Led Zepp overrated? Jimi Hendrix overrated? Soundgarden, the rest WTF? does your mother dress you or what?!

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

I'd love to see Temple's second Pistols movie The Filth And The Fury.

Your wish is granted! I have the video, and it's got some harrowing interviews w/Sid, saying he'd like to be "under the ground", just before he died. I'll take it to the gig on the 29th, if you'd like to borrow it.

[Larsen B]

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU LISTEN TO THEN? BUSTED?! Led Zepp overrated? Jimi Hendrix overrated? Soundgarden' date=' the rest WTF? does your mother dress you or what?! [/quote']

Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix and the Stones belong to a thread of revered bands who make shallow music of absolutely no substance. It's too concerned with the peripheral aspects of rock 'n' roll ie drugs, alcohol and meaningless sex. Soundgarden are just so bland and there's nothing innovative or original about them and their lyrics are bullshit.

[bryn]

Hendrix isn't over-rated. Hendrix was the most innovative guitarist of his day, he's not over-rated...

As far as soundgarden go you're speaking shit. They write extremely good 'songs' with interesting structure and arrangement. Plus Chris Cornell has an incredible voice. I just wonder why you'd pick a particularly good group out to be 'bland' over the hundreds of thousands of actual bland bands. What music are you into?

'shallow music of no substance' - lol, put it this way, they were the first in a long chain of people to make shallow music of no substance.

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

Led Zeppelin' date=' Jimi Hendrix and the Stones belong to a thread of revered bands who make shallow music of absolutely no substance. It's too concerned with the peripheral aspects of rock 'n' roll ie drugs, alcohol and meaningless sex. Soundgarden are just so bland and there's nothing innovative or original about them and their lyrics are bullshit.[/quote']

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head, there. Too much emphasis on the "rock 'n roll mutha" lifestyle, which is a damn shame as being in a band gives you the chance to actually say something. It's a shame so many choose not to use the opportunity.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

Sure' date=' Rotten played no part in the making of The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle, but Cook, Jones, and Vicious did. I guess in a way it's McLaren's movie - you know, this nonsense about his part in the the Pistols creation - their rise to greatness. His great plan. But hey, it's a great great movie.[/quote']

We'll agree to disagree on that one.

I'd love to see Temple's second Pistols movie The Filth And The Fury.

The Filth And The Fury is a great movie, i don't need to say any more than that.

Terry And The Idiots? I just could not understand their inclusion in the movie.

I don't know if it was to bring some humour to the film being that all i can remember about watching D.O.A one rainy early morning on Channel 4 at around 3am in the morning a few years ago was how so depressing it all was, the Pistols just looked utterly dejected and confused and disorientated with the reception they were getting in America.

I just could never understand why McLaren booked shows for them in redneck towns in the southern parts of the United States of America, you would've thought New York would be the best place to take the Pistols too in terms of the music scene they had there at the time.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

Sure' date=' The Professionals work was not nearly as forward thinking as Public Image Limited's output. However, they were still nevertheless great.[/quote']

Not my kinda thing but hey, everyone likes different things. Some people like Ikea furniture and some people don't, some people like necrophilia and a lot of people don't.

Sham 69? I'm sorry, maybe I didn't make myself very clear. I was talking about the ill fated project put together by Pursey, Cook, and Jones.

Oh riiiiiiight. Never heard it to be honest with you so can't comment.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

Led Zeppelin' date=' Jimi Hendrix and the Stones belong to a thread of revered bands who make shallow music of absolutely no substance.[/quote']

Hendrix did anything but make music of absolutely no substance, especially where live shows are concerned, he was more innovative than any other guitarist of his generation and nobody dared play the kind of notes he was playing, most people were playing standardised blues rock boogies while Hendrix was taking everything he learned from playing blues guitar and turning it into a sonic one-man guitar symphony, there's so much more to Hendrix than just playing.

Try listening to Electric Ladyland and you will get the jist.

It's too concerned with the peripheral aspects of rock 'n' roll ie drugs, alcohol and meaningless sex.

But you're not talking about their music, you're talking about the lifestyles members of those bands led when they were famous.

Soundgarden are just so bland and there's nothing innovative or original about them and their lyrics are bullshit.

I would have to agree with you about their lyrics, all Cornell ever seemed to write about was suns and snakes.

[Larsen B]

Hendrix did anything but make music of absolutely no substance' date=' especially where live shows are concerned, he was more innovative than any other guitarist of his generation and nobody dared play the kind of notes he was playing, most people were playing standardised blues rock boogies while Hendrix was taking everything he learned from playing blues guitar and turning it into a sonic one-man guitar symphony, there's so much more to Hendrix than just playing.

Try listening to Electric Ladyland and you will get the jist.

But you're not talking about their music, you're talking about the lifestyles members of those bands led when they were famous.

I would have to agree with you about their lyrics, all Cornell ever seemed to write about was suns and snakes.[/quote']

I don't care how innovative he was as a guitarist his music still has no substance, there's nothing about Hendrix's music which moves you, which makes you feel anything. And my point about their lifestyles is that their music was either about their supposedly outlandish lifestyles or if it wasn't it suffeedr because they didn't actually have anthing to say. If the wrote what was supposed to be love song they only did so because it was the norm there was no strong emotion behind it.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

I don't care how innovative he was as a guitarist his music still has no substance' date=' there's nothing about Hendrix's music which moves you, which makes you feel anything. And my point about their lifestyles is that their music was either about their supposedly outlandish lifestyles or if it wasn't it suffeedr because they didn't actually have anthing to say. [/quote']

Why does a band have to say something for their music to have substance?

Its music, most of Beethoven's and Mozart's music didn't have any words, a lot of Miles Davis' and John Coltrane's jazz records had no words, but they probably have more substance than a lot of music thats around today.

Ultimately though, this argument comes down to personal taste and not about the subject of innovation so in this respect, its got no legs.

[Larsen B]

Why does a band have to say something for their music to have substance?

Its music' date=' most of Beethoven's and Mozart's music didn't have any words, a lot of Miles Davis' and John Coltrane's jazz records had no words, but they probably have more substance than a lot of music thats around today.

Ultimately though, this argument comes down to personal taste and not about the subject of innovation so in this respect, its got no legs.[/quote']

I'm not saying you need to have words in a song for them to have something to say to you. Godspeed You! Black Emperor are the perfect example. But Hendrix's music is just him showing off, playing up for musos. As panny as it sounds when he plays it doesn't play to your heart. And that is my opinion nothing else.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

I'm not saying you need to have words in a song for them to have something to say to you. Godspeed You! Black Emperor are the perfect example. But Hendrix's music is just him showing off' date=' playing up for musos. As panny as it sounds when he plays it doesn't play to your heart. And that is my opinion nothing else.[/quote']

If you take that attitude then every artist who ever played an instrument who are absolutely brilliant at playing are all show-offs, that would mean that all the great jazz players in history like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, Dizzy Gillespie, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk and Ornette Coleman weren't playing from their hearts in your eyes.

I have never seen more passion in Hendrix's guitar playing than i have seen or heard in anyone else's guitar playing, the guy was truly trying to take guitar playing to a level that no-one else was willing to, every guitar player in history who are considered the best all tip their cap to Hendrix because of what he did.

Hendrix just loved playing music and thats all that mattered when he was playing, he couldn't help it if people admired what he did, he wasn't trying to make any kind of statement to the world either because he wasn't obligated to, he just played his fucking heart out to anyone who wanted to listen and made it look effortless when the fact was that he was improvising and experimenting all the time with the notes he was playing in the way a jazz player like Miles Davis or John Coltrane did with their instruments.

[Larsen B]

If you take that attitude then every artist who ever played an instrument who are absolutely brilliant at playing are all show-offs' date=' that would mean that all the great jazz players in history like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, Dizzy Gillespie, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk and Ornette Coleman weren't playing from their hearts in your eyes.

I have never seen more passion in Hendrix's guitar playing than i have seen or heard in anyone else's guitar playing, the guy was truly trying to take guitar playing to a level that no-one else was willing to, every guitar player in history who are considered the best all tip their cap to Hendrix because of what he did.

Hendrix just loved playing music and thats all that mattered when he was playing, he couldn't help it if people admired what he did, he wasn't trying to make any kind of statement to the world either because he wasn't obligated to, he just played his fucking heart out to anyone who wanted to listen and made it look effortless when the fact was that he was improvising and experimenting all the time with the notes he was playing in the way a jazz player like Miles Davis or John Coltrane did with their instruments.[/quote']

I will never like Hendrix and I don't want this thread to turn into a huge arguement (as so many threads that i post in do) so we'll leave at that.

[Jo Foo]

thats a rubbish post

Indeedy so. I was finding it relatively amusing until he started on Bowie and The Smiths.

And now I am getting myself involved in this pathetic example of verbal brawling.

OK, I'll join in the love fest and give my two cents.

Although these bands are good, I do not believe they deserve the media attention they receive. They were not God's gift to the music world and although they can write a tune or two, accept that they're not amazing. I did, and you can too.

Nirvana

HIM

The Distillers (BAD live)

Red Hot Chili Peppers (seriously, not THAT great!!)

Iron Maiden (it was alright the first time around, now give up gracefully!)

And the following bands are just crap:

KEANE (die, die)

Stone Roses (please, just kill me!!!!)

Morrisey (Smiths good, Morrisey bad)

Have fun

Georgia xxx ^_^

PS - Thanks to demon_of_the_fall for reminding me of the stone roses.

PPS - Did someone call The Cure depressing? Are you sure you've actually heard The Cure?

[bryn]

there's nothing about Hendrix's music which moves you' date=' which makes you feel anything.[/quote']

There are some truly some truly beautiful moments in Hendrix's music. You can't deny 'the wind cried mary,' little wing or castles made of sand. Rremember he is primarily a blues guitarist, blues being known for its 'feeling,' 'singing guitar' etc, check voodoo chile (not the wahwah one) for example is like a 9 minute emo epic!! Bottom line is - he had a huge impact on a lot of people so an argument suggesting his music has no substance lacks, err, substance or backbone, considering also you weren't there at the time so you are definately not getting the same vibe.

[medichi]

The Beatles. and fucking ABBA. And the bastard Bee Gees. Death to all (surviving members....)

[Mr.Tim]

Im not really bothered if you dont like them because no one does but what did you mean by the comment?

i like them.

[Mr.Tim]

ABBA and oasis. i hate them but they did sell a shit load of records and are pretty popular. i just dont like them.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

The Beatles. and fucking ABBA. And the bastard Bee Gees. Death to all (surviving members....)

Can't agree enough with you on any of those fricken bands.

Especially Abba, i don't think i have ever met anyone who likes them yet they apparently sold millions of records.

[Guest The Reverend Z. Munch]

There are some truly some truly beautiful moments in Hendrix's music. You can't deny 'the wind cried mary' date='' little wing or castles made of sand. Rremember he is primarily a blues guitarist, blues being known for its 'feeling,' 'singing guitar' etc, check voodoo chile (not the wahwah one) for example is like a 9 minute emo epic!! Bottom line is - he had a huge impact on a lot of people so an argument suggesting his music has no substance lacks, err, substance or [i']backbone, considering also you weren't there at the time so you are definately not getting the same vibe.

He doesn't want this thread to turn into a huge argument, probably because his own argument doesn't have enough substance and didn't really say anything anyway.

So lets just leave it at that eh?