KarmaTsunami Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 that's what I think. She definitely giggled at 0.06 in that video. And the joke between the two guys about the female linesman was meant to be private. If anything sky should be getting a boot up the arse for privacy stuff. And that thing about Louise Redknapp was also a bit of tongue in cheek banter between 'lads'. Jamie never made a complaint and it should never have been leaked. Everything would be fine unless someone actually complained.This is the Gordon Brown 'Bigot' thing all over again. No one would've cared if it didn't get leaked. He was obviously stressing at the time. Look at the shit hand he'd been dealt. No one in that car - as far as I'm aware - made a complaint about his comment.Where was I? Aye. It was more an invasion of privacy on Sky's part than anything else. They're the real baddies in all of this. But I agree with the equal pay thing and all that. It should be equal. We need to get more girls getting nekked and burning bras. But mostly the nekked part.From a lot of talk in football thread in the Sports forum it doesn't seem like Gray and Keys were well liked at SkySports and this was just a bit of an excuse for them to get rid, an opportunity if you will. They seem to have bullied everyone, not just women and nobody they worked with seems to have been to upset about their being sacked. I agree that the 'leaking' of stuff said off-air is stupid and they obviously didn't mean for it to be heard by anyone but themselves. My problem with it, besides the blatant sexism, is that there was an undercurrent of genuine maliciousness to it. To my mind anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Also just because they work in a tv studio which doesn't neccasarily seem like the regular workplace they should have still payed attention to what they were saying. You can't say blatantly sexist stuff like that at work, it's just not on anywhere.Regards to equal pay I think of course in a normal job where anyone is doing the same work as anyone else should be payed the same. However sometimes it seems like in the public eye it's worked in reverse.Wimbeldon 2/3 years ago women tennis players were now to get the same prize money as men. Now if they were doing the same amount of work then that'd be fine but they're not. Women grand slam tennis is 3 sets maximum so to reach the final a woman player has to play at the very most the minimum amount a man has to play to reach the final. IMO that's not really fair but maybe I'm wrong on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Some top women players have said they would like like to play best of 5 sets as the men do.Lucky, I appreciate the moderating explanation. At least you don't act like a premiership ref, hiding from the media. I'm still not sure why the early stuff had to be deleted when a more serious conversation had been able to develop anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaaakkkeee Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Also just because they work in a tv studio which doesn't neccasarily seem like the regular workplace they should have still payed attention to what they were saying. You can't say blatantly sexist stuff like that at work, it's just not on anywhere.If neither of the people participating in the off camera conversations appeared to be offended. And ok, lets say they were and were too scared or shy to come forward. Someone from Sky should've spoke to them privately and handled it a lot better. But it wasn't done. If no one complains then I can only assume they were fine with what was being said. It was not meant for anyone but themselves. No one should've been sacked. Apart from whoever leaked the tape. Totally unprofessional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Does anyone know what happened in the end to the other guy that got suspended at first? The one who only said that another guy said the lineswoman was attractive.The worst thing they did was definitely the first recording that was leaked. If women officials become more common at the top level of the game Keys and Gray couldn't have been seen as impartial commentators on the events when they clearly believe women officials are genetically unable to do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 If neither of the people participating in the off camera conversations appeared to be offended. And ok, lets say they were and were too scared or shy to come forward. Someone from Sky should've spoke to them privately and handled it a lot better. But it wasn't done. If no one complains then I can only assume they were fine with what was being said. It was not meant for anyone but themselves. No one should've been sacked. Apart from whoever leaked the tape. Totally unprofessional.I don't agree with that at all. It doesn't matter who it is your speaking to you can't make sexist remarks in the workplace during working hours. Sky are perfectly within their rights as an employer to not stand for that and as the two of them both had previous for similar things they deserved to get sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaki Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Does anyone know what happened in the end to the other guy that got suspended at first? The one who only said that another guy said the lineswoman was attractive.Not sure but I thought that was ridiculous. Would there have been the same hoo-hah if Gabby Logan mentioned off camera that David Villa is an attractive man? I doubt it. People find people attractive! What if a gay commentator (aye right!) had said that a male player or referee was attractive? Which brings me onto, in my opinion, the biggest problem with inequality in the football industry - homophobia. When does that get tackled? Do we need to wait until a player comes out or someone makes a homophobic comment which is captured on camera? I remember watching Football Focus or Match of the Day recently where they did a section about the racist abuse suffered by Cyril Regis in the 80s. Colin Murray was presenting and I think they had Stuart Pearce and Lee Dixon with him. They all agreed that racism was bad and has been well dealt with in football in the past 20 years, Murray then said he hoped that homophobia would eventually be dealt with in the same way, Dixon and Pearce shuffled uncomfortably in their seats and said nothing. Perhaps a bit off topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not sure but I thought that was ridiculous. Would there have been the same hoo-hah if Gabby Logan mentioned off camera that David Villa is an attractive man? I doubt it. People find people attractive! What if a gay commentator (aye right!) had said that a male player or referee was attractive? Which brings me onto, in my opinion, the biggest problem with inequality in the football industry - homophobia. When does that get tackled? Do we need to wait until a player comes out or someone makes a homophobic comment which is captured on camera? I remember watching Football Focus or Match of the Day recently where they did a section about the racist abuse suffered by Cyril Regis in the 80s. Colin Murray was presenting and I think they had Stuart Pearce and Lee Dixon with him. They all agreed that racism was bad and has been well dealt with in football in the past 20 years, Murray then said he hoped that homophobia would eventually be dealt with in the same way, Dixon and Pearce shuffled uncomfortably in their seats and said nothing. Perhaps a bit off topic...I don't think homophobia will ever be addressed in football. The first player to actually come out will probably find that it'll spell the end of his football career, and he'll be the direct subject of all manner of abuse, both verbal and physical, from a variety of people in football, and a whole host of people out-with football.It's just never going to happen. Justin Fashanu will probably always be brought up, and I think most of us know how his story ended. I don't think there is a single professional football club out there, with the exception of St Pauli, who would ever even consider the notion of signing a player they knew to be homosexual. Have you ever read Graeme Le Saux's autobiography? The guy wasn't even a homosexual, yet he had a reputation within the game as being a homosexual - all stemmed from the fact he didn't have a regionalised accent and he was once spotted at Chelsea with a copy of the Gaurdian under his arm. The allegations and absue suffered almost made him reconsider being a professional footballer. Fucking ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabags Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Of course women get men......HARD.Yeah, yeah, hi-five. Fist-bump. Yeah. BROS BEFORE HOES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaaakkkeee Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 My opinion is that a joke between people that aren't offended by it - wherever it is - should be allowed. I've made some sexist jokes to people I know can see the funny side as they know I'm not sexist. This has been at home and at work. I've also talked about 'hot' people while at work. If I were to get pulled up 'cause someone told on me I wouldn't be very happy, but I'd accept the fact I offended someone and I'd be very regretful. If someone video'd me and instead of complaining made sure the person being talked about saw it - that's just shit.That cameras shouldn't have still been recording. If no one makes a complaint or no one hears it - fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaki Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't think homophobia will ever be addressed in football. The first player to actually come out will probably find that it'll spell the end of his football career, and he'll be the direct subject of all manner of abuse, both verbal and physical, from a variety of people in football, and a whole host of people out-with football.It's just never going to happen. Justin Fashanu will probably always be brought up, and I think most of us know how his story ended. I don't think there is a single professional football club out there, with the exception of St Pauli, who would ever even consider the notion of signing a player they knew to be homosexual. Have you ever read Graeme Le Saux's autobiography? The guy wasn't even a homosexual, yet he had a reputation within the game as being a homosexual - all stemmed from the fact he didn't have a regionalised accent and he was once spotted at Chelsea with a copy of the Gaurdian under his arm. The allegations and absue suffered almost made him reconsider being a professional footballer. Fucking ridiculous.Perhaps it's this defeatist attitude that is stopping progress! I largely agree with what you've said although I wouldn't say it's never going to happen. It may just take a long time and some brave pioneers. If a player was to come out he'd first need the support of his teammates and I imagine he'd come up against the 'no gays in the army' excuse that they have to shower together and what not. Probably not such an issue in ladies football though, right? (stereotype!)I suppose a comparable industry is Hollywood. Homosexuality is probably quite common in stage acting (stereotype!) where I assume most movie actors begin their career but how many leading actors in film have come out? Way off topic now, sorry. I just don't want to start a new thread in case my football buddies see it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Shaki has dominated this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 The homosexuality in football issue is a big problem which the authorities don't seem willing to tackle at all.The world cup being awarded to Qatar is hardly a step in the right direction either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Perhaps it's this defeatist attitude that is stopping progress! I largely agree with what you've said although I wouldn't say it's never going to happen. It may just take a long time and some brave pioneers. If a player was to come out he'd first need the support of his teammates and I imagine he'd come up against the 'no gays in the army' excuse that they have to shower together and what not. Probably not such an issue in ladies football though, right? (stereotype!)I suppose a comparable industry is Hollywood. Homosexuality is probably quite common in stage acting (stereotype!) where I assume most movie actors begin their career but how many leading actors in film have come out? Way off topic now, sorry. I just don't want to start a new thread in case my football buddies see it....Yeah, i actually think gay athletes are probably put off coming out by "banter" from their teammates but i also think that the majority of them would actually be supportive these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Shaki has dominated this threadI would disagree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarmaTsunami Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Perhaps it's this defeatist attitude that is stopping progress! I largely agree with what you've said although I wouldn't say it's never going to happen. It may just take a long time and some brave pioneers. If a player was to come out he'd first need the support of his teammates and I imagine he'd come up against the 'no gays in the army' excuse that they have to shower together and what not. Probably not such an issue in ladies football though, right? (stereotype!)I suppose a comparable industry is Hollywood. Homosexuality is probably quite common in stage acting (stereotype!) where I assume most movie actors begin their career but how many leading actors in film have come out? Way off topic now, sorry. I just don't want to start a new thread in case my football buddies see it....I don't know if it's way off topic. We've been talking about attitudes towards sexism in sport so it makes sense to talk about homophobia in the same area. Considering the two are sort of linked as well. I'd start ranting on about a heteronormative patriarchy but it's late and I'm sleepy.I thought this was a rather good article and it was heartening to see someone in the game talk so openly about the issue: Darren Purse: 'There can't be anything worse than living a lie' | Football | The Guardian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaki Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I don't know if it's way off topic. We've been talking about attitudes towards sexism in sport so it makes sense to talk about homophobia in the same area. Considering the two are sort of linked as well. I'd start ranting on about a heteronormative patriarchy but it's late and I'm sleepy.I thought this was a rather good article and it was heartening to see someone in the game talk so openly about the issue: Darren Purse: 'There can't be anything worse than living a lie' | Football | The GuardianGood article. From what he seems to think the teammates wouldn't really be the issue as I had thought but rather the fans and the media attention. Football fans are by and large fucking morons who will latch onto anything they can attack the opposition (or sometimes their own) players with. There was a guy who played for Hibs recently who lost an eye (not on the pitch thankfully, he'd had it removed by a doctor). What did the Dons fans sing? - One eye, you've only got one eye....etc. Perhaps a strange example to use but nevertheless proves my point. Given that football fans are morons it is the home club's responsibility to monitor their behaviour. The SPL and member clubs have cracked down well on sectarian singing by banning certain songs. They also read out a code of conduct over the tannoy before each match which basically says that if you are heard saying anything discriminatory (including reference to transgender identity) you face being ejected, banned and the club could be docked points. If all clubs police this well, as they did with racism in the 80s/90s, then it may make it easier for gay players to come out. So, all we need now is some openly gay footballers.Can't do fuck all about the media however..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Good article. From what he seems to think the teammates wouldn't really be the issue as I had thought but rather the fans and the media attention. Football fans are by and large fucking morons who will latch onto anything they can attack the opposition (or sometimes their own) players with. There was a guy who played for Hibs recently who lost an eye (not on the pitch thankfully, he'd had it removed by a doctor). What did the Dons fans sing? - One eye, you've only got one eye....etc. Perhaps a strange example to use but nevertheless proves my point. Dean Shiels. Nifty wee player. Jimmy Calderwood wanted to sign him for Aberdeen. He probably told the club to fuck off because of the Aberdeen fans' "banter".And he may have had half the sight of every Aberdeen player, but he had twice the vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaki Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Some sexism I experienced yesterday and today: Popped my head into the living room where my girlfriend and her friend were watching Sex in the City 2 (just to reinforce stereotypes) whilst yakking at the same time. "Is it that bad a film that you're talking through it?" I asked. "We're talking and watching. We can multitask!" said her pal. I was very offended. Flicking through one of those trashy magazines ("More" I think it was) whilst on the bog today I came upon (as in 'I encountered') a section where women write in with stupid things they've heard men say. Once again I was offended and I think I might just write to the editor. In my girlfriend's defence (and subsequently mine because I choose to live with her) she thought that film was dreadful and it was her pal's magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 It's a load of tosh that girls can multi task, as my girlfriend hates it when I talk through tv programmes. If she could multi task, she'd hear both things.No one can multi task. They just end up doing two tasks worse than they would if they did them seperately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 It's a load of tosh that girls can multi task, as my girlfriend hates it when I talk through tv programmes. If she could multi task, she'd hear both things.No one can multi task. They just end up doing two tasks worse than they would if they did them seperately.I am perpetually getting into to trouble for multi-tasking. On Tuesday i was watching the football, playing FM2011 and surfing the net and was informed that as i wasn't devoting my full attention to the game it was pissing my lovely girlfriend off as she doesn't like football. The mind boggles, i just get the feeling that men are down-trodden these days as a result of generations before us being overly sexist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 It's a load of tosh that girls can multi task, as my girlfriend hates it when I talk through tv programmes. If she could multi task, she'd hear both things.No one can multi task. They just end up doing two tasks worse than they would if they did them seperately.Multitasking = failed sequencing.xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaaakkkeee Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am perpetually getting into to trouble for multi-tasking. On Tuesday i was watching the football, playing FM2011 and surfing the net and was informed that as i wasn't devoting my full attention to the game it was pissing my lovely girlfriend off as she doesn't like football. The mind boggles, i just get the feeling that men are down-trodden these days as a result of generations before us being overly sexist.It's got to be said, women get away with some load of stuff and if a man did it it would be sexist.I still don't understand the problem with hitting a woman. I'll hurt my hand if I hit a man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfer_Rosa Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well the interesting discussions were nice while they lasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarmaTsunami Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Been following this thread, and the whole time i've just wanted to tell KarmaTsunami to get back to the kitchen. For no other reason than to see her reaction.[Waits]Nice try.Like I've said before, sexism won't be eradicated until both men and women get it out their heads that it's a 'battle' of the sexes to be fought and won. There has to be an equal amount of respect on both sides and until that happens you're still going to get those idiotic columns in magazines where people write in with 'stupid' things they've heard men/women say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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