Frosty Jack Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Look. I'm not homophobic. No' date=' I think it is a mistake to encourage tolerance of homosexuality. [/quote']If you're against tolerance of homosexuality, then you must be against homosexuality per se. Isn't that homophobic?Im camp-o-phobic' date=' ned-o-phobic, and ignorance-o-phobic. I dont find people who fit these categories threatening, I find them dull, uninteresting to talk to and tedious, end of story.[/quote']These are character traits that you don't like, which is fair enough. But these have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's sexuality. Do you think repressing homosexuality (by discouraging tolerance) will get rid of all these horrible people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Mel Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I hate to admit it but I'm with Stripey on this one. Children need to be sheltered until such times as they can begin to actually understand and question what they see instead of following it blindly. While I don't have a problem with homosexuality' date=' I don't think children should ever be exposed to it.[/quote']but the time when people do question without prejudice is in childhood. surely exposing people to the fact that there are different types of sexuality and it's not a way to judge someone's character at a young age promotes further tolerance. keeping it hidden from them gives the message that homosexuality is wrong and unacceptable and just breeds further hatred. i fully believe that children should be exposed to different ethnicities and sexualities at a young age so that they grow up open minded and accepting of everyone. it's the only way to put a stop to prejudice attacks that are merely a result of ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 If you're against tolerance of homosexuality' date=' then you must be against homosexuality per se. Isn't that homophobic?These are character traits that you don't like, which is fair enough. But these have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's sexuality. Do you think repressing homosexuality (by discouraging tolerance) will get rid of all these horrible people?[/quote']Why should tolerance of sexual deviancy be promoted? I firmly believe that it is an aquired trait caused by the environment the child grows up in, same as paedophiles are a product of their life experiences. If someone grows up to be homosexual, then fair enuff, but why celebrate it? The laws changed in this country so its not illegal to be homosexual, isnt that enough? Don't you think the media encouraging campness and events like the gay pride thing pushing it in the publics face, merely causes more intolerance because it makes it so prominent? Why do the adult (over 50) homosexuals that I know, act like everyone else, yet the younger ones around 20 or so act like raving graham norton clones? If they want to announce to the world their sexuality with every turn of phrase or tone of voice, thats their choice and if someone who is homophobic notices it and gives them a beating, its their fault for waving a flag saying "i am gay" surely.Why do goths get beaten up and ridiculed, do you think perhaps its because they have bought into a lifestyle and decided to be overt about it? It's their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stripey Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 but the time when people do question without prejudice is in childhood. surely exposing people to the fact that there are different types of sexuality and it's not a way to judge someone's character at a young age promotes further tolerance. keeping it hidden from them gives the message that homosexuality is wrong and unacceptable and just breeds further hatred. i fully believe that children should be exposed to different ethnicities and sexualities at a young age so that they grow up open minded and accepting of everyone. it's the only way to put a stop to prejudice attacks that are merely a result of ignorance.Young children don't "question without prejudice". They believe without applying logic and have no experience to apply to it either. This is why they are vulnerable, and should not be exposed to corrupting influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullmouse Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Why do the adult (over 50) homosexuals that I know' date=' act like everyone else, yet the younger ones around 20 or so act like raving graham norton clones?[/quote']I don't get your point. Most people go through fads and phases that influence the way they act and appear - I can't see people still being foppy fringed emo kids over the age of 50, nor can I see many 20 year old goths still putting the eyeliner on thick and squeezing into bondage pants over the age of 50. Surely what you're pointing out here is just people maturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I think it is becoming cool to be gay. Look at emowear / general male fashion - pretty feminine huh? its as though men are losing the desire to be masculine and women are losing the attraction to masculinity.Homosexuality is sad' date=' its like someone born with 3 eyes, a defect. Its become socially acceptable because theres so many, and im not homophobic, but it is sad - as in unhappy sad not, 'check u bunch of saddos.'[/quote']Your first point is flawed, I think. Homosexuality isn't about men being attracted to feminine men in the male case, wouldn't they then be attracted to girls? Think along the lines of the muscly builder stereotype if you really must think in those terms, but I really think you're a little guilty of buying into the "are you being served" stereotype.Your second point, isn't something I agree with, but I'll respect your right to believe it.One thing I have observed:The rock scene attracts a lot more lesbians, and in many cases "faux-lesbians" than gay men. I'm not sure why this is, but people still seem to treat lesbianism as kinky while male homosexuality is more widely demonised, which I can't see being cool for anyone who's gay. Just a thought.Overall, I expected a more liberal, and in many cases, educated attitude from a lot of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikola Tesla Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Why should tolerance of sexual deviancy be promoted? I firmly believe that it is an aquired trait caused by the environment the child grows up in' date=' same as paedophiles are a product of their life experiences. If someone grows up to be homosexual, then fair enuff, but laws changed in this cowhy celebrate it? The untry so its not illegal to be homosexual, isnt that enough? Don't you think the media encouraging campness and events like the gay pride thing pushing it in the publics face, merely causes more intolerance because it makes it so prominent? Why do the adult (over 50) homosexuals that I know, act like everyone else, yet the younger ones around 20 or so act like raving graham norton clones? If they want to announce to the world their sexuality with every turn of phrase or tone of voice, thats their choice and if someone who is homophobic notices it and gives them a beating, its their fault for waving a flag saying "i am gay" surely.[/quote']I honestly dont see what your huge problem with homosexuality is. Many young hetrosexual's push their sexuality in people's face's, isnt that as bad as homosexuals doing it? Sexuality as many people already have said shudent be such a big deal. It should just be accepted as long as no one is harmed by it. And saying that the people who get beaten for being gay deserve it, is an absolutly stupid point to make. These people don't need to suffer others ignorance. No one does. p.s. How can a chemical attraction be aquired through circumstances? (cause after all thats all attraction basicly is, a chemical reaction) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I honestly dont see what your huge problem with homosexuality is. Many young hetrosexual's push their sexuality in people's face's' date=' isnt that as bad as homosexuals doing it? Sexuality as many people already have said shudent be such a big deal. It should just be accepted as long as no one is harmed by it. And saying that the people who get beaten for being gay deserve it, is an absolutly stupid point to make. These people don't need to suffer others ignorance. No one does. p.s. How can a chemical attraction be aquired through circumstances? (cause after all thats all attraction basicly is, a chemical reaction)[/quote']Well said,The evidence I've seen supporting the "it's not natural" argument is very weak and destroyed in the face of, well, facts such as those given by Nullmouse. It also beggars a satisfactory definition of "natural", which I'd sincerely like to see for the sake of discussion.Where to turn then, protecting our kids, like the often brilliant Frosty Jack said "from what?". I think what is being suggested is a sense of moral protection, but outside of religious texts, what principal is being drawn on here? Can anyone explain to me why homosexuality is morally wrong outside of personal statements like "it's sick"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 If they want to announce to the world their sexuality with every turn of phrase or tone of voice' date=' thats their choice and if someone who is homophobic notices it and gives them a beating, its their fault for waving a flag saying "i am gay" surely.Why do goths get beaten up and ridiculed, do you think perhaps its because they have bought into a lifestyle and decided to be overt about it? It's their choice.[/quote']I fucking hate these people who are into drum n bass music. If that's what they want to do in their own home that's fine, but once they start flaunting in public, making it obvious that that's what they like, then frankly they deserve to be beaten senseless. Some of them wear T-shirts with obvious dnb slogans. They don't even try to hide their deviant preferences. You even see some of them going to special clubs that encouraging this kind of behaviour. Christ, some of them even post their filth on the internet in public forums, where children could hear it. String em up. They asked for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceWoman Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Im surprised there wasnt a lot of homosexuality in the 80'stwo words: Freddie. Mercury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 You are ridiculous.ridiculous schmiculous, speakin shite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindeh Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 if being sexually attracted to a member of the same sex makes someone happy, what's the problem? people can't help it if they are gay, it's not a defect - there's nothing wrong with wanting to be happy in being yourself and not have to conform to narrow-minded views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-The-Bassist Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Curious indeed.I actually believe it's more a question of people becoming more curious. I mean as far as bi-sexuals go i see no reason why people can't experiment, and the fact that the world is more open to it than ever is in people of the persuasions favour at this point. However i think to be "gay" is very much a from the heart thing as opposed to a "fad" thing. Many people say it only really occured to them the first time they were intimiate with a person of the opposite gender and found it completely unappealing and this leads me to believe it is in ingrown, as opposed to a conditioned (learned through social pressure) response. Further reasons make me believe that it is a legitimate lifestyle but however still holds ethical questions. For example many psychologists believe they can "cure" homosexuals, and if this is the case, it would seem to be a conditioned state of mind.......?Contradictions really don't help me get to any specific conclusion.Anyway i think it's generally more common because of a more sexually aware and open environment.xxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I've went back and read more than the first couple of pages of the thread. I'm certainly not qualified to substantuate any scientific claims made here, but those claims have certainly been made by people who are, whoever, I'm seeing a lot of repetition of people claiming to hate "The gays that flaunt it like Graham Norton".This got me thinking.a) You're dislike of a personality trait is about as important as your like or dislike of carrot and corriander soup. Please don't confuse your opinion with a fact.b) A media icon playing up to an image is not a good or reliable sample type. Fact is, you'd be hard pressed to tell when someone is actully "gay", being "camp" is an entirely diffrent matter.c) Is there such a thing as a gay subculture? I'm not suggesting homosexuality is a subculture in the slightest, yet isn't it possible that subcultures exist in the gay scene? If so, then surely someone could, if we adhere to the stereotypes set up here, love Kylie Minouge, bleach their hair and drink fuzzy navels in their youth to establish their place before growing out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 One of the major functions of sexual relations and sexual intercourse is reproduction of the species. Homosexuals typically have sex and sexual relations.No homosexual sexual activity can lead to the fulfillment of the sexual function known as 'reproduction'. Therefore, Homosexuality is, at least in one way, a reproductive sexual disorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 One of the major functions of sexual relations and sexual intercourse is reproduction of the species. Homosexuals typically have sex and sexual relations.No homosexual sexual activity can lead to the fulfillment of the sexual function known as 'reproduction'. Therefore' date=' Homosexuality is, at least in one way, a reproductive sexual disorder.[/quote']Jesus, me and my girlfriend better stop doing this shit for fun. In fact, I'll just go and burn any contraceptives I can find and make sure she see's any baby she conceives right through until the end of it's term so it can be brought into a life devoid of parental love. Better tell the dolphins who I hear have sex for fun to quit it and kill the next puppy I see hump a teddy bear.While I'm here:http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.asp (it's unintentionally funny) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 One of the major functions of sexual relations and sexual intercourse is reproduction of the species. Homosexuals typically have sex and sexual relations.No homosexual sexual activity can lead to the fulfillment of the sexual function known as 'reproduction'. Therefore' date=' Homosexuality is, at least in one way, a reproductive sexual disorder.[/quote']Good for you, for never having had a wank then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingin' Ryan Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Jesus' date=' me and my girlfriend better stop doing this shit for fun. In fact, I'll just go and burn any contraceptives I can find and make sure she see's any baby she conceives right through until the end of it's term so it can be brought into a loveless life.While I'm here:[url']http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.aspExactly, why is reproduction the only reason for sex?And if every single couple had children, we'd end up with maximum child number legislations as in China at the moment, the whole thing would be chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryn Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 animals dont fuck for fun, thats all we are.Just because it has became that way, and believe me I have a demanding girlfrend, doesnt mean that in the beginning, sex wasn't purely reproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindeh Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 right, so a homosexual person is supposed to think "oh, hang on, i can't be gay, i can't be myself, i can't have fun, because well, i have to reproduce"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullmouse Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 One of the major functions of sexual relations and sexual intercourse is reproduction of the species. Homosexuals typically have sex and sexual relations.No homosexual sexual activity can lead to the fulfillment of the sexual function known as 'reproduction'. Therefore' date=' Homosexuality is, at least in one way, a reproductive sexual disorder.[/quote']No, it's not a disorder - It's totally obvious it's not meant to cause reproduction. Much as a blowjob isn't going to lead to pregnancy. If sex was purely procreational, why does it feel good? I mean, sure, the guy would need to ejaculate but why would it need to feel good? And what's the purpose of a female orgasm? It's not essential to reproduction, therefore it must be some kind of disorder, right?All you've done here is turn the 'unnatural' thing into a 'disorder' thing. Unfortunately, as I've pointed out earlier in the thread, there is a biological reasoning behind homosexual behaviour and humans are far from the only animals to indulge in it. This disorder thing doesn't wash at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullmouse Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 animals dont fuck for fun' date=' thats all we are.Just because it has became that way, and believe me I have a demanding girlfrend, doesnt mean that in the beginning, sex wasn't purely reproduction.[/quote']Chimps do, and they masturbate too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawy Lawson:Attorney Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 animals dont fuck for fun' date=' thats all we are.Just because it has became that way, and believe me I have a demanding girlfrend, doesnt mean that in the beginning, sex wasn't purely reproduction.[/quote']Are you implying sex for pleasure is a new creation?also read these. http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/pleasure.htmhttp://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/2001-spinner%20dolphins.html (this one's a peach) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullmouse Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Chimps do' date=' and they masturbate too.[/quote']A quick search on the ol' Biology database reveals that most monkeys, deers, kangaroos and iguanas are also documented wankers. I'd probably find more if I could be arsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullmouse Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Are you implying sex for pleasure is a new creation?also read these. http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/pleasure.htmhttp://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/2001-spinner%20dolphins.html (this one's a peach)Nice links, don't know why I focussed in on 'wankers'. Must be something subliminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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