2008/2009 Season Thread

[Kieran_imray]

Duncan????

Darren, sorry, I was texting my uncle (called Duncan) at the same time and must have got muddled.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Firstly, fair point, my bad, But still, not exactly great is it?

Secondly, given how we were playing that season, I'm not convinced we would have won the play off. And still, WE FINISHED BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE!!! I mean Jesus fucking Christ, surely Jimmy has to be held in higher regard than Ebbe.

Oh, wait, no, he is from Govan! Of course, lets hate a manager who has done better for us than almost anyone since Alex Ferguson purely because he is a Rangers man who occasionally has cup slip ups and doesn't play the most exciting open football with below par players he has bought with the naff all money he is given to spend in order to maintain vague consistency in results!! It all makes perfect sense now!! I mean, after all, he did only stop us languishing in relegation battles.....

I'm not a Dons fan - I just said what I've been told by Dons season ticket holders. Last season was good because of the UEFA Cup but the league games week in week out are so dull that it's just boring.

I argued JC's case as an outsider looking at the results and league placings he's delivered, but they say you have to be there every week to see how bad it is. I've a mate who didn't buy a season ticket this season because of JC, but will be buying one this week now he's gone.

The games I witnessed were the European ones, either against the Old Firm a few cup games and only just a handful of league games I went along to. On the whole the league games I witnessed were shit, the UEFA Cup games were all great apart from the Moscow game and the cup games were pretty inconsistent.

[Monster Zero]

Just getting a top six finish shouldn't be our aim, it should be 3rd, every season.

It should be 1st every season. Whether that is realistically achievable is another matter but surely aiming to be the best inspires more drive and ambition than settling for 3rd place?

[Kieran_imray]

I'm not a Dons fan - I just said what I've been told by Dons season ticket holders. Last season was good because of the UEFA Cup but the league games week in week out are so dull that it's just boring.

I argued JC's case as an outsider looking at the results and league placings he's delivered, but they say you have to be there every week to see how bad it is. I've a mate who didn't buy a season ticket this season because of JC, but will be buying one this week now he's gone.

The games I witnessed were the European ones, either against the Old Firm a few cup games and only just a handful of league games I went along to. On the whole the league games I witnessed were shit, the UEFA Cup games were all great apart from the Moscow game and the cup games were pretty inconsistent.

I'm not trying to say he had a team that played lively exciting football week in week out. Most of it was utter dross. But football is a results business, and he got them. We can't expect Aberdeen to play like Barcelona or Arsenal. If we try to play open, passing, attacking football we will lose the ball and get ripped apart. We quite frankly don't have players with the technical ability to play constant attractive football (Aluko has potential, but he isn't there yet). I'd rather we played boring football and got points than pretended we had a team of Kaka's and Messi's and get relegated. Falkirk tried that and almost payed the price for it.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

I'm not trying to say he had a team that played lively exciting football week in week out. Most of it was utter dross. But football is a results business, and he got them. We can't expect Aberdeen to play like Barcelona or Arsenal. If we try to play open, passing, attacking football we will lose the ball and get ripped apart. We quite frankly don't have players with the technical ability to play constant attractive football (Aluko has potential, but he isn't there yet). I'd rather we played boring football and got points than pretended we had a team of Kaka's and Messi's and get relegated. Falkirk tried that and almost payed the price for it.

I know one-off games are just that. One-off games.

But I watched Aberdeen take Celtic apart earlier this year because they played open attacking football.

They got a lead, and went all defensive and Celtic pinned them back. Once the lead was lost, Aberdeen decided to have a go again and raped Celtic once more.

I honestly think the reason Aberdeen do well against the old firm and did well in Europe etc is because they're not expected to win and the pressure is off and allows them to play how they can. You see it with teams all over the world. Celtic do it in Europe, Scotland do it against the bigger teams.

The Dons players are better than you think, honestly. They didn't get to be professional footballers without the ability to pass and move. Fuck me, I've played in amateur teams who play nice football, knocking it about and taking teams apart. It's really not that difficult.

But, it appears as if they clam up against the opposition they are expected to beat and are scared to open up and go for it. I think Aberdeen should be battering the teams from the lower half of the league.

The same way as I think Celtic should be battering most of the SPL instead of playing their shitty passing it back and forth across the back four until Gary Caldwell spots a hollywood pass (he normally plucks out a good pass but McDonald/Samaras/Brown/Hartley mis-control it and it bounces out of play), in an attempt to look continental and "patient".

[Dave-IRL]

I'm not trying to say he had a team that played lively exciting football week in week out. Most of it was utter dross. But football is a results business, and he got them. We can't expect Aberdeen to play like Barcelona or Arsenal. If we try to play open, passing, attacking football we will lose the ball and get ripped apart. We quite frankly don't have players with the technical ability to play constant attractive football (Aluko has potential, but he isn't there yet). I'd rather we played boring football and got points than pretended we had a team of Kaka's and Messi's and get relegated. Falkirk tried that and almost payed the price for it.

Once upon a time St Mirren actually tried this - they bought former Barcelona & Spain captain Victor Munoz, and a former Barca striker (OK it was Stevie Archibald but still...) - paid them megabucks and expected success to roll in. 18 years later we've just finished our 3rd consecutive season in the top flight - the longest stay we've had in the SPL since we signed them.

And to think that Davie Hay (manager at the time) is regarded as some sort of football mastermind and Gordon Smith (his assistant in the Mirren Massacre) is now running the game in this country...

I'd far rather Saints had lived within their means and didnt have to go through the 90's hell we experienced in Div 1.

We thought we were bigger than we were and paid a heavy price for it. Aberdeen's board cant seem to see the (Calder)wood for the trees in this case though...

I apologise for the pun. profusely.

[The Milner]

I'm just at my wits end reading some of this shite about AFC.

Why are there so many people that singularly refuse to give Jimmy Calderwood any credit whatsoever despite 5 consistent years of challenging for 3rd/4th spot, a fantastic UEFA cup run, and qualifying again for Europe this season?

I can only imagine that either they didnt live through the previous 10 years of abject failure, frequent embarassment and totally awful football, or have just got very short memories. I even read somewhere that somebody preferred the Skovdahl era. Fuck. Right. Off. The only "good" thing, if you can call it that about the Skovdahl era, was that the club went in a completely new direction......signing up an unknown foreign coach, buying a bunch of foreigners that we've never heard of. In a way, it was refreshing....the reality on the pitch however was fucking chronic.

Success is always relative, and considering where we were when JC took over and the tools at his disposal, he has been a success. That is an indisputable fact. He inherited one of the worst Dons side in recent memory and a youth setup that had fallen apart and had all but stopped producing first team players. Add to that a tiny budget and regularly losing his top players with barely a penny to show for it. Despite that, he has been totally instrumental in not only steadying the ship in terms of results, but also financially. Without the improvement in results we'd still be losing cash hand over fist, instead of our debt situation improving overall during his tenure.

Another thing being mentioned a lot is the standard of football under JC. Personally, I judge quality of football on results. Managers are not paid to pander to the artistic desires of the fans....they are paid to win by whatever means possible. Jimmy's win/loss ratio is significantly better than his recent predecessors and with the players at his disposal, results will always be ground out, rather than opposition teams being swept aside. It is up to the manager to recognise that fact, and he should be applauded for finding a way to succeed with what in all honesty is a pretty ordinary group of players, rather than being lambasted for not playing like the Brazil '82 side.

...and finally, cup runs. Fucking cup runs. They've been a disaster, no doubt. But they are one-off games, and shit sometime happens. In our case, shit has happened a few times recently, but it is just not logical for a team that does well in the league to be fundamentally incapable in the cups. Personally, I absolve the manager of blame for this, and lay responsibility at the door of the players who simply haven't got themselves up for the cup games. Motivation shouldn't be the manager's responsibility, that comes from the players, and they failed us. Funny how we did so well in the UEFA cup....that's a cup isn't it? Given time, the squad would evolve and the cup results would inevitably have improved, but we Dons fans don't 'do' patience do we? To sack a manager because of "his" performance in a handful of games, despite performing well in our bread and butter league games is a nonsense to me.

If we end up picking one of the names being bandied around for JC's job, I have a very bad feeling that the boo-boys are going to find out exactly how good a job JC did over the past 5 years while our league form goes down the pan. Leaving aside the pie in the sky hopes of splitting the OF, Cup runs are basically the only thing he didn't achieve, and that is a very sorry reason to sack him IMO. He was far from perfect, but he's the best we've had in a long time and I wish him well.

Over to you Milne. Don't fuck this up.

Thank you, i have felt like "bangin my head against my desk" reading some of the shite in this thread all day. Funny how no one seems to be going through your points bit by bit and using their, "we're a big club" argument to justify sacking the best mananger we have had since alex smith.

[The Milner]

I know one-off games are just that. One-off games.

But I watched Aberdeen take Celtic apart earlier this year because they played open attacking football.

They got a lead, and went all defensive and Celtic pinned them back. Once the lead was lost, Aberdeen decided to have a go again and raped Celtic once more.

I honestly think the reason Aberdeen do well against the old firm and did well in Europe etc is because they're not expected to win and the pressure is off and allows them to play how they can. You see it with teams all over the world. Celtic do it in Europe, Scotland do it against the bigger teams.

The Dons players are better than you think, honestly. They didn't get to be professional footballers without the ability to pass and move. Fuck me, I've played in amateur teams who play nice football, knocking it about and taking teams apart. It's really not that difficult.

But, it appears as if they clam up against the opposition they are expected to beat and are scared to open up and go for it. I think Aberdeen should be battering the teams from the lower half of the league.

The same way as I think Celtic should be battering most of the SPL instead of playing their shitty passing it back and forth across the back four until Gary Caldwell spots a hollywood pass (he normally plucks out a good pass but McDonald/Samaras/Brown/Hartley mis-control it and it bounces out of play), in an attempt to look continental and "patient".

this kinda ties in with my point about the cup game, the players really need to look at themselves and ask why they cant be bothered when it comes to the smaller teams, they should be ashamed of themselves after those kinds of games, as you say they didnt get to be where they are for nothing, even foster must have some kind of ability inside his two left feet, so they should never allow themselves to be out played by some lower league teams, but alas this is football i guess and you cant win everygame.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

this kinda ties in with my point about the cup game, the players really need to look at themselves and ask why they cant be bothered when it comes to the smaller teams, they should be ashamed of themselves after those kinds of games, as you say they didnt get to be where they are for nothing, even foster must have some kind of ability inside his two left feet, so they should never allow themselves to be out played by some lower league teams, but alas this is football i guess and you cant win everygame.

I would argue that some of that responsibility has to lie with the manager too though. It's not as if he was setting them out with the same personnel one game and they played awesome, then exactly the same the following week and they can't pass a ball.

A lot of uncertainty and changes in tactics etc etc.

Plus part of coaches/managers job is to motivate the individuals to perform well, and to perform as a team and build team spirit within the team etc etc.

If players underperform, they should be "punished" by the management so that they know that level of performance/commitment is unacceptable etc etc.

[The Milner]

I would argue that some of that responsibility has to lie with the manager too though. It's not as if he was setting them out with the same personnel one game and they played awesome, then exactly the same the following week and they can't pass a ball.

A lot of uncertainty and changes in tactics etc etc.

Plus part of coaches/managers job is to motivate the individuals to perform well, and to perform as a team and build team spirit within the team etc etc.

If players underperform, they should be "punished" by the management so that they know that level of performance/commitment is unacceptable etc etc.

could he fine the whole team? Or what do you mean by punishment, remeber tho the players union is very very powerful now a days, anything managers do is heavily scruitinised, chrits its almost impossible for a club to sack a player.

A manager can only do so much to motivate players, but really should you need motivated to reach a cup final? If that isnt enough to get you playing then you should be in a different job. I dont think team spirit is the problem at the dons, most of the players have came out saying they think the decision is a joke, that tells me they were behind JC, i just think a lot of pro players dont care that much full stop anymore, they get their moneys no matter what and if they dont like whats going on they go to the Players union and get their club shafted over, its not like the old days where if you fucked a club about they left you to rot like they should.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

could he fine the whole team? Or what do you mean by punishment, remeber tho the players union is very very powerful now a days, anything managers do is heavily scruitinised, chrits its almost impossible for a club to sack a player.

A manager can only do so much to motivate players, but really should you need motivated to reach a cup final? If that isnt enough to get you playing then you should be in a different job. I dont think team spirit is the problem at the dons, most of the players have came out saying they think the decision is a joke, that tells me they were behind JC, i just think a lot of pro players dont care that much full stop anymore, they get their moneys no matter what and if they dont like whats going on they go to the Players union and get their club shafted over, its not like the old days where if you fucked a club about they left you to rot like they should.

Players are overpaid fannies a lot of the time, and don't play for passion anymore. They get paid their wages regardless of how shit they play.

By "punishment" I mean any manner of things, such as getting dropped for example. Managers are well within their rights to stick someone into the reserves or transfer list them or anything like that if they are underperforming.

Examples can be made of players, but you have to be consistent and do it with all your players. Take Mark Kerr for example. One of your better players this season, but if that had happened mid season (nothing will happen now cos JC has left and the season's finished), he should have been dropped into the reserves or at least the bench and made to work his arse off and earn his place again.

JC did with Langfield what he should have done to players who underperformed etc but the fact was he only did that to Langfield because he called him a cunt in front of everyone.

Prime example was at Rangers a couple of seasons ago when PLG was hounded out of the club by the idiots like Ferguson. Ferguson has now been shown up for exactly what he is after the Scotland thing. I wonder if Rangers regret sticking up for him over PLG now. I'm delighted they did because I honestly think that given time PLG would have transformed Rangers (in a good way for them).

[The Milner]

Players are overpaid fannies a lot of the time, and don't play for passion anymore. They get paid their wages regardless of how shit they play.

By "punishment" I mean any manner of things, such as getting dropped for example. Managers are well within their rights to stick someone into the reserves or transfer list them or anything like that if they are underperforming.

Examples can be made of players, but you have to be consistent and do it with all your players. Take Mark Kerr for example. One of your better players this season, but if that had happened mid season (nothing will happen now cos JC has left and the season's finished), he should have been dropped into the reserves or at least the bench and made to work his arse off and earn his place again.

JC did with Langfield what he should have done to players who underperformed etc but the fact was he only did that to Langfield because he called him a cunt in front of everyone.

Prime example was at Rangers a couple of seasons ago when PLG was hounded out of the club by the idiots like Ferguson. Ferguson has now been shown up for exactly what he is after the Scotland thing. I wonder if Rangers regret sticking up for him over PLG now. I'm delighted they did because I honestly think that given time PLG would have transformed Rangers (in a good way for them).

i almost completely agree, but could calderwood drop the whole team for not trying, christ we would only have Mackie left on the pitch!!! haha

I think i said it earlier in this thread but its not like JC is the first dons manager to suffer from his players not turning up for the smaller games, and im sure he wont be the last.

As i say tho, i know for a fact managers have to be very careful now a days with players as they have more power than the manager at times which is completely wrong.

As for ferguson, you couldnt be more right, i said that at the time.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

i almost completely agree, but could calderwood drop the whole team for not trying, christ we would only have Mackie left on the pitch!!! haha

I think i said it earlier in this thread but its not like JC is the first dons manager to suffer from his players not turning up for the smaller games, and im sure he wont be the last.

As i say tho, i know for a fact managers have to be very careful now a days with players as they have more power than the manager at times which is completely wrong.

As for ferguson, you couldnt be more right, i said that at the time.

Players inevitably try hard for the first game/s under a new manager. Manager needs to start how he means to continue. The minute someone looks like they're not pulling their weight in a match/training, they get pulled up for it and told to buck their ideas up, regardless of who they are. Then continue to do it - you'd soon have players trying their hardest for you week in week out (I say with all my vast managerial experience....).

All the rumours are pointing towards McGhee for Aberdeen and Mowbray for Celtic...

[Bigsby]

Firstly, we were beat by Celtic AWAY by those scores - not at home.

Not a great defence (in any sense of the word.) But we certainly got beat 5-0 at Todders by Celtic in John Barnes (!) first game in charge, Mark Burchill even scored. Was in the RDS for that one.

Pretty sure we did get beat at least 6-0 or something like that at Pittodrie around the same time, with Ian Wright scoring and doing a "chicken tonight" celebration.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Not a great defence (in any sense of the word.) But we certainly got beat 5-0 at Todders by Celtic in John Barnes (!) first game in charge, Mark Burchill even scored. Was in the RDS for that one.

Pretty sure we did get beat at least 6-0 or something like that at Pittodrie around the same time, with Ian Wright scoring and doing a "chicken tonight" celebration.

Derek Whyte was exclusively to blame for those humpings.

[Hugh_Jazz]

Not a great defence (in any sense of the word.) But we certainly got beat 5-0 at Todders by Celtic in John Barnes (!) first game in charge, Mark Burchill even scored. Was in the RDS for that one.

Pretty sure we did get beat at least 6-0 or something like that at Pittodrie around the same time, with Ian Wright scoring and doing a "chicken tonight" celebration.

Indeed. A quick look at the fixtures from season 1999-2000, Ebbe's first in charge reveals the following scores against the OF:

Celtic (H) 0-5

Rangers (A) 3-0

Celtic (A) 7-0

Rangers (H) 1-5

Celtic (H) 0-6

Rangers (A) 5-0

Celtic (H) 0-2

Rangers (H) 1-1

Celtic (A) 5-1

Rangers (H) 0-4

Not exactly brilliant home form I'd say.

[The Milner]

was the 5-0 at celtic park not david preece's first game?

I remeber watching it in majorca with my old man wishing i hadnt worn my dons strip.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

was the 5-0 at celtic park not david preece's first game?

I remeber watching it in majorca with my old man wishing i hadnt worn my dons strip.

Not sure, but I remember looking at a paper the following day (/Monday) with a screenshot of every goal. Derek Whyte was standing beside (or about 1 yard away from) the goalscorer of I think 4 of the goals. He was shite.

[The Milner]

you leave deek alone, his legs had gone by then but he was class in his day.

[Bigsby]

you leave deek alone, his legs had gone by then but he was class in his day.

Ha, he'd not long signed for us then! (Possibly the season before?) Also, I think he got a Scotland cap that season (1-0 win over Germany, Don Hutchison goal, dodgy pink strip, if memory serves).

But yeah, he was generally gash. Solberg and Whyte *shudder*.

[Shaki]

with Ian Wright scoring and doing a "chicken tonight" celebration.

Ah yes, one of the lowest points in my entire life, even outwith football. Could only have been made worse if Jamie Oliver and Timmy Mallet had been sitting either side of me singing "Aberdeen are shiiiit, ne ne ne ne ne".Thankfully they weren't.

I actually did enjoy the Ebbe era but that was more to do with my own youth, Zerouali's skills and Belabed's overhead kicks. I also worked at the club at that point so felt a bigger part of it.

[Guest Exposure @ Lemon Tree]

Ah yes, one of the lowest points in my entire life, even outwith football. Could only have been made worse if Jamie Oliver and Timmy Mallet had been sitting either side of me singing "Aberdeen are shiiiit, ne ne ne ne ne".Thankfully they weren't.

I actually did enjoy the Ebbe era but that was more to do with my own youth, Zerouali's skills and Belabed's overhead kicks. I also worked at the club at that point so felt a bigger part of it.

Does Rachid get the bus?

[Shaki]

Does Rachid get the bus?

I don't recall. Is that a reference to something or an obscure fascination with Belgian/Morroccan footballer's modes of transport?

Rachid was a lovely guy actually, shame he never really made it. A guy did once arrive at reception claiming that he'd been sick in his living room and had left without cleaning it up though.....and then there was that incident when he battered a Belgian Journalist......but apart from that a nicer guy you couldn't meet!

[RossP]

I don't recall. Is that a reference to something or an obscure fascination with Belgian/Morroccan footballer's modes of transport?

Rachid was a lovely guy actually, shame he never really made it. A guy did once arrive at reception claiming that he'd been sick in his living room and had left without cleaning it up though.....and then there was that incident when he battered a Belgian Journalist......but apart from that a nicer guy you couldn't meet!

Did I not read somewhere that he got kidnapped a few years back!?

[Shaki]

Did I not read somewhere that he got kidnapped a few years back!?

I never heard anything about that and googling "rachid belabed kidnap" yields nothing to suggest it either.

You up for it like?