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Stripey

What does the future hold

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Ok, so we've all seen what post-modernism has to offer and many of us have taken great pleasure in it's cheesy delights, but frankly, I'm sick to death of it and I wonder when everyone else will tire of this cultural cop-out.

I forsee a post-ironic era where dressing up as 70's media icons is no longer funny, where tv shows like Neighbours are recognised as actually being crap and of no value, where 80's hair metal bands are ridiculed and above all, an era where culture is no longer a prosthetic which is purchased or aquired and then used as a unifying talisman, but something which is honest and serious and genuine and actually generated rather than consumed.

This post-ironic age will be difficult, it will present challenges, it will require hard work and the use of imagination, but ultimately we must face up to this task, because if we don't discard irony and post-modernism then we simply have no cultural future, we are doomed to an eternity of self-referential ridicule of ourselves.

What do you think the future holds? Or would you rather leave it up to someone else to decide?

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Ok' date=' so we've all seen what post-modernism has to offer and many of us have taken great pleasure in it's cheesy delights, but frankly, I'm sick to death of it and I wonder when everyone else will tire of this cultural cop-out.

I forsee a post-ironic era where dressing up as 70's media icons is no longer funny, where tv shows like Neighbours are recognised as actually being crap and of no value, where 80's hair metal bands are ridiculed and above all, an era where culture is no longer a prosthetic which is purchased or aquired and then used as a unifying talisman, but something which is honest and serious and genuine and actually generated rather than consumed.

This post-ironic age will be difficult, it will present challenges, it will require hard work and the use of imagination, but ultimately we must face up to this task, because if we don't discard irony and post-modernism then we simply have no cultural future, we are doomed to an eternity of self-referential ridicule of ourselves.

What do you think the future holds? Or would you rather leave it up to someone else to decide?[/quote']

well none of thats going to happen for sure.

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The future holds the same as what's happening now, fashions change, music changes, tv changes, but ulitmately everything comes full circle and the world becomes as it was before.

People alway look to the past to create the future, irony will never die as it's built into the structure of human civilisation, post-modernism is well shite and always will be, but you always steal from past cultures to improve and learn for the life you have at the moment. The worst case senareo i can see for the future is in 30 years time half the pish that is in the charts and on tv now will be considered classics, we won't be living on the moon or mars and we won't have rocket cars or jet packs, hell if we're lucky we may just have a dencet system running our life independent of Brussels.

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The future is what you make it. No point in being pessimistic and ol clichic on us.. Just do something and the future will be defined by what it is you do.

Or a deterministic approach to it, would be to say, well ! the future is already planned, I may as well sit back and watch it roll by and not take part.

I think we have reached the pinnacle of corruption, it must start to get better from here on out. What I say is; If the world has problems, you have 3 options, 1) deal with them personally, or 2) do somethin positive to help.. or 3) Lay back, skin up and let someone else worry about shit that cant be changed.

3 is my fav.

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I really cannot abide by people who deride popular culture and champion their own tastes as somehow being cutting edge, just because very few people are either aware of it, or enjoy it.

By all means try to promote things which interest and excite you, it's part of the joys of culture that people discover hidden gems which they want to share with others.

I just don't see what it achieves to deride people's choices. It isn't like they are going to suddenly turn round and say "hey, you're right, I am living a grotesque existence watching low-brow television and consuming lobotomised culture, I think I will join you in your leftfield crusade."

I often wonder if people who currently advocate forms of art and culture which do not have a popular following would continue to do so if everybody suddenly decided it was cool.

Frankly, I don't really care much about what other people consume in a cultural sense. If they are happy in themselves then fine. I won't stop myself from trying to introduce others to things which I feel need to be appreciated, but equally I won't deride them as somehow being an intellectual sub-class simply because their cultural tastes are not the same as mine.

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I really cannot abide by people who deride popular culture and champion their own tastes as somehow being cutting edge' date=' just because very few people are either aware of it, or enjoy it.

...

Frankly, I don't really care much about what other people consume in a cultural sense. If they are happy in themselves then fine. I won't stop myself from trying to introduce others to things which I feel need to be appreciated, but equally I won't deride them as somehow being an intellectual sub-class simply because their cultural tastes are not the same as mine.[/quote']

You are missing the point here. A generation of people are growing up who have a completely passive relationship with culture, it's got nothing to do with what is "good" and what isn't. Frankly our current popular culture deserves to be derided, because it's entirely false, maunfactured and unauthentic. It consists of nothing more than cleverly designed products and propoganda. It's a business interest, not a human interest. And yes, I do think it's OK to think of people who consume these products as an intellectual sub-class, in the same sense that people who eat at mcdonalds are an epicurean sub-class.The only reason our commerce driven so-called popular culture is in the ascendancy is because unfortunately, there are a lot of ignorant people around, who are actually victims, rather than participants. I don't mean this in a snobbish sense atall before you start getting annoyed, it's simply the reality of the situation.

Just because something has a broad popular visible contingent of people involved in it has nothing atall to do with the objective quality of the thing itself either,

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You are missing the point here. A generation of people are growing up who have a completely passive relationship with culture' date=' it's got nothing to do with what is "good" and what isn't. Frankly our current popular culture deserves to be derided, because it's entirely false, maunfactured and unauthentic. It consists of nothing more than cleverly designed products and propoganda. It's a business interest, not a human interest. And yes, I do think it's OK to think of people who consume these products as an intellectual sub-class, in the same sense that people who eat at mcdonalds are an epicurean sub-class.The only reason our commerce driven so-called popular culture is in the ascendancy is because unfortunately, there are a lot of ignorant people around, who are actually victims, rather than participants. I don't mean this in a snobbish sense atall before you start getting annoyed, it's simply the reality of the situation.

Just because something has a broad popular visible contingent of people involved in it has nothing atall to do with the objective quality of the thing itself either,[/quote']

But the difference between your parallels of consumerism and culture is that culture and the arts are an entirely subjective field. We know, categorically, that McDonalds food is not nutritious and is harmful in heavy doses. Therefore we can safely encourage people not to consume it.

I do not believe that you can make the same analogy with cultural products. While I agree that it is unfortunate that people do not all enjoy what we would term to be high-brow forms of entertainment, I don't think that necessarily means they should be actively discouraged from their present pursuits.

I subscribe to the belief that people respond better to positive stimuli, therefore deriding the choices they make does nothing to encourage a change of habit.

Equally, the great thing about culture is that it operates on so many different levels for the benefit of so many different audiences. I agree there are ignorant people out there, but lambasting them for their ignorance isn't going to do anything but entrench their beliefs.

Clearly there are failings in terms of the education offered by way of arts and culture. These are often the subjects which get cut back on first when the cost-cutting measures are needed. That sort of attitude sends out entirely the wrong message.

That said, I don't think the problem is as endemic or widespread as you think it is. I suspect we might have to agree to disagree on that one.

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I'm hoping that in the future we will eat all our food in pill form and wear snazzy silver jumpsuits.

Now were talking

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Popular culture is a constant evolution. What is shit will be realised as being shit by future generations, like-wise, the positive aspects resonate and acquire heightened meaining. Theres surely no point in worrying about this constant change or even attempting to influence any sort of masses with your own views. I personally have comparitively little in common with popular culture and daresay I never would throughout any period of time. I'd also hasten to add that this 'sub-culture' is the pregnant entity that gives birth to 'underground' and gives meaning to all that isn'tpop.

In terms of music, I can accept that most peoples' tastes do not progress beyond their fourteenth birthday. Efforts to make unmusical friends agree would be understandably futile, regardless of how much I know they are missing out on.

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but stripey my dear' date=' your diatribe smacks of popular anti-consumer sound biting. it is possible to comment on capitalism without mentioning macdonalds. are you sure you're not just finding something new to rebel against?[/quote']

This thread has nothing to do with anti-capitalism. I just mentioned mcdonalds in an illustrative manner to help prove a point. For the record, I don't have whiteboy dredlocks and I've never slept in an endangered tree in protest against a road bypass.

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I dont know but.... IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU ARE GOING TO DIE, IF YOU CANNOT YOU MAY ALREADY BE DEAD.

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I've never slept in an endangered tree in protest against a road bypass.

That's environmentalism, not anti-capitalism.

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You can never tell what the future will be like because so many things will happen that we (or most of us anyway) can't imagine just now. If we concentrate on making the present as good as we can then the future will take care of itself.

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But the difference between your parallels of consumerism and culture is that culture and the arts are an entirely subjective field. We know' date=' categorically, that McDonalds food is not nutritious and is harmful in heavy doses. Therefore we can safely encourage people not to consume it.

I do not believe that you can make the same analogy with cultural products. While I agree that it is unfortunate that people do not all enjoy what we would term to be high-brow forms of entertainment, I don't think that necessarily means they should be actively discouraged from their present pursuits.

That said, I don't think the problem is as endemic or widespread as you think it is. I suspect we might have to agree to disagree on that one.[/quote']

Congratulations on totally missing the point again. As I said I'm not talking about what is or isn't "good". I'm not making an analogy either, consumerism IS our mainstream culture now, quite literally.

Anyway all I'm saying, QUITE SIMPLY is that I want to see a post-ironic era where authenticity and genuine creativity makes a comeback. Read it that sentence again and try and remember it before posting more unrelated crap in my thread please.

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Congratulations on totally missing the point again. As I said I'm not talking about what is or isn't "good". I'm not making an analogy either' date=' consumerism IS our mainstream culture now, quite literally.

Anyway all I'm saying, QUITE SIMPLY is that I want to see a post-ironic era where authenticity and genuine creativity makes a comeback. Read it that sentence again and try and remember it before posting more unrelated crap in my thread please.[/quote']

I think there's plenty of authenticity and genuine creativity out there as it is.

And if you were saying it quite simply, you'd have sufficed at that sentence in the first place rather than waffling your usual pseudo-intellectual nonsense around the sides to pad out a fairly simplistic idea, with which I broadly agree by the way. (But don't let that stop you from trying to engage in some more one-upmanship and belittling of my points.)

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Stripey needs Top Erom Ekoms, and Slowdazzle & Hog are right on the button :up:

Although I'm all for Naturism in the future - Silver spandex makes you sweaty.

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