When buying an amp?

[Hog]

How do I know that a head suits the cabinet? i.e. I dont want to blow anything up! Is there some kind of wattage I should look out for?

(yes, I know fuck all about amps)

[The Byre]

If you are talking about a guitar head or similar, as long as the head is tube/valve, then you can use just about anything that comes within its pwer range or more. So a Marshall 100 Watt head will have no problems with a 200 Watt speaker cab. It does not have to be a guitar cab, it can be anything, PA cab, whatever.

(Watch out for hi-fis as they nearly always are made from very poor componants and the power rating is usually grossly over stated.)

The only thing to watch out for is the ohm rating. Older tube/valve amps often have a jumper or switch at the back to switch between 4, 8 and 16 ohm speakers. This switches between coils on the output transformer, so make sure that they match.

If your guitar or keyboard head is not tube/valve, sell it, junk it, throw it away. The PA amps should be obviously solid state (i.e. transistors). Guitare and keyboard amps should always be tube/valve for a whole host of reasons (harmonic distortion, compression, saturation, perceived volume etc.). For these reasons, our tube/valve amps rated at 100 Watts actually sound almost as loud as the 2 x 600 Watt PA amps.

www.the-byre.com

[Chris]

If your guitar or keyboard head is not tube/valve' date=' sell it, junk it, throw it away. [/quote']

Ignore that bit. It's bullshit.

There's nothing wrong with using a solid state amp.

[Dan G]

Ignore that bit. It's bullshit.

There's nothing wrong with using a solid state amp.

Agreed.

Dimebag Darrell used solid state amps. His guitar sounds was just about ok I guess...

[Guest DustyDeviada]

Perhaps there are a few pro players who have got a good tone using solid state amps, but they are grossly outnumbered by those who use valves.

I have a valve amp and there is just no way in the world I would go back to solid state, not a chance.

[Chris]

it's pointless saying valve is better than solid state (or vice versa). It's a personal choice. But to dismiss solid state amps completely and to advise people to throw them away or junk it is just plain wrong. Solid state amps are a perfectly good choice to get a decent sound on a budget. I doubt most users on this site could afford the best equipment, or even the equipment they really want. So we all have to settle for what will fit our needs and that we can afford. Which for me is a solid state amp.

Here's an interesting article I found on the subject: http://www.epinions.com/content_3726614660

[The Byre]

Well, I largely put that statement there to provoke a reaction, but I also meant it to a certain extent.

Firstly let me just state that I was the first to adopt modelling amps and the better ones like Line6 are very useful indeed and The Pod is a much-used effect in the studio. I also think that many of the modern tube amps are not that good. They seem (not all, but some) to have lost sight of what the guitarist of keys player is looking for. But putting a few black sheep aside, let me dispel a few myths:

1. Tube amps are very expensive. NOT TRUE! If you compare like with like, they cost about the same. Yes, if you go for a top-of-the-line Hughes and Kettner, you can spend nearly 2,000 on the head alone and a top-of the line modeling solid state amp costs about the same as well. But you have to spend about 400 on the entry level modeling combo amps that actually sound a bit like a tube combo and that is what some of the tube combos cost. A Fame Tube-84 costs about 380, the same as a Line6 Flextone III. Even the Marshall (not a company known for being cheap) JCM2000 DSL401 costs 550 and is possibly the best studio combo out there. The Laney VC30 212 twin also costs just 550. the same is true for heads. Prices for a 50Watt all-tube head start around 420 and 100Watt heads coming in at around 600.

Of course a Behringer V series is much cheaper, but it will break and sounds like what it is, cheap rubbish knocked out at rock bottom prices.

My Laney 100 Watt tube bass head cost me 120 on eBay and it sounds every bit as ballsey as it did thirty years ago when it was built.

2. Tube amps are not as loud as solid-state as they only go up to about 100 Watts. NOT TRUE! Because the tubes compress (reduce the dynamic range) of the sound, and because they introduce harmonic distortions, they appear to be much louder, Watt for Watt. You need about four times as much power with a solid state to make as much noise as a tube amp.

3. Because tubes sound softer and less harsh, they don't bite through in a mix. NOT TRUE! Those added harmonics are the real thing and not a digital calculation, so despite all the other things that might be going on, they stand up in the mix perfectly. Solid state amps just dissapear when they are too quiet and when they are too loud they screach. Tube amps are much more forgiving and so they are easier to get right.

4. But Big Jonney Rock Star uses a solid state 'XXX' I know because I read it in Guitar Magazine and in Axe. REALLY NOT TRUE! Headliners get paid to place these interviews in music mags as they know that all the punters will rush out and buy whatever they use. Looking to see what Big Jonney Rock Star uses has more effect on sales than any other factor - more than advertising. They all use tube amps.

And as for the test sited above by Chris, I cannot comment as I was not there. But I hear the difference every time, particularly when it comes to a mix. On the solid state side, the Line6 stuff is far better than the rest, but then it costs more than some tube amps and it still is not as good.

[Guest Gregor Ascension]

i hate people who wank over valve amps.

[HateEvent]

i hate people who wank over valve amps.

Just curious - what amp do you use?

[Guest Gregor Ascension]

Just curious - what amp do you use?

Hughes and Kettner half stack, also have a marshall park 80 watt.

[Doc Ascension]

both solid state....

[Hog]

4. But Big Jonney Rock Star uses a solid state 'XXX' I know because I read it in Guitar Magazine and in Axe. REALLY NOT TRUE! Headliners get paid to place these interviews in music mags as they know that all the punters will rush out and buy whatever they use. Looking to see what Big Jonney Rock Star uses has more effect on sales than any other factor - more than advertising. They all use tube amps.

.

So Dimebag Darrell actually never used Randall solid state amps?

I really think that when he changed to tube amps i.e when he recorded the Damageplan album his guitar tone was no where near as good as the Pantera tone.

However, one of my fave guitar sounds is actually from a Mesa (tube I think)...jeez I dont know much about amps lol. It is crystal clear and has punch.

So, I am now really unsure what is best lol!

Thanks for the info Byre

[Jeid]

ah, the good old SS vs tube debates. i love em.

having played and used many tube amps(for those interested i've owned: Marshall Superbass Head, JCM900 combo, 1964 Vox AC30, Marshall 30th Anniversary head) i have to admit, they sure sound ace. big, meaty, not meaty.... they can do it all really. they are the amp of choice mainly because so many of your favourtie bands use them. that what people do, they look at the players that have good sounds, look at what they use, and try their hardest to match it. everyone has bought at least one piece of equipment because one of their favourite guitarists use it. Dan bought his explorer based on seeing James Hetfield.... i bought my Tele because it was Kurt Cobain's next guitar of choice(it was actually)

but getting back on track. do they sound better? to me.... yeah. but only in certain situations. would there be any point to me owning a tube amp in my current bandless, small shared house situation? probably not. they need to be cranked up to at least halfway to get them sounding good. yeah, ok, get an attenuator.... but their damn expensive for a good one, and they make you go through tubes a bit quicker. ever had to re-tube an AC30... a costly job i assure you. Attenuation also doesn't capture the best part of the guitar sound, which for me anyway, is the speakers fucking up and being put under strain. Yes, tube amps are ace if you have money, lots of use for them and a band thats gonna get the thing cranked at least a couple of times a week.

and now for SS.... i now have myself a Line 6 Pod(shame on me) but, i find this little tool to be pretty damn good. it gives me all the amps i'll never use, plus all the ones i do. ok, there's a lot of crap on here i admit. but its not the vast sounds i'm after. i only use 3 sounds. clean, dirty and dirtier. all sounds i could get with any two channel amp. the best part being, that i can get all the nice cranked high gain sounds through different cabs etc. some sound more fucked up than others. i'm actually beginning to like some of the sounds i used to really hate because of this little bundle of joy. the Mesa Boogie Rectumfrier being my current favourite. its a good way of finding out what sucks and what doesn't suck, although, its no comparison.

i sit on the fence really. i can only name two main stream guitarists that i know using solid state amps(Johnny Greenwood and Dimebag). it doesn't mean the amps suck. its all personal taste.

[Hog]

I only go by what I hear...

http://mp4.centurymedia.com/audio/syl_shitstorm.mp3 - Mesa Boogie, love the tone

Cant find a Damage Plan MP3 but the guitar tone IMHO is not very good. Argh Im confused!!!!

[craig deadenstereo]

I go valve personally, but I play in a gigging band, and have cash.

They are better, but like the boy says - mostly if you gig.

I have a Marshall Superbass and a 30th Anniversary head. I've also had the following valve amps - Orange OR80, Mesa F-50, Engl Thunder, Peavey Classic 30, Marshall DSL 201, Peavey Classic VT, Peavey 5150, ZVex Nano Amp, Marshall JMP MKII.

But If i didn't gig and just played in the house I'd buy a Vox Valvetronix 15 Watter.

That was my plan til I ordered a MiniMatt head from Matamp - but that wasa treat to myself for quitting my job. (Quit your job, don't have another one? Buy a new guitar amp. Yeah)

[Afro Droid]

Firstly let me just state that I was the first to adopt modelling amps

What, like the first person ever?! No wonder you can afford a tube amp

[Hog]

What' date=' like the first person ever?! No wonder you can afford a tube amp [/quote']

Did I tell you that I invented the guitar?

[Bomber]

i got a marshall TSL 60 watt valve amp and a 1960 4 by 12 cab, and its loud as fuck gives a great sound, i have used solid state ones in the past and personaly they do not compare to the tubes

and on another note dimebag used marshal tube amps for his early gigs and his first few albums such as metal magic, i am the night, projects in the jungel, power metal, and including cowboys from hell

[David]

back on the origonal topic, the two things you need to check for getting a cab are the wattage (or power handling) and the impedance

you want a cab with a slightly higher wattage than your amp is rated at (amps at full tilt can often put out more than the stated values - old marshalls were rated at the clean volume, it only started distorting when you got past that point)

for the impedance, you want it to match the output on your amp, most good amps will give you a choice of a few different output impedances though (usually so you can run more than one cab on the parallel outputs they give you on the back of the amp) but for a single cab, you want it to match what your amp can output, usually 4, 8 or 16 ohms (usually the latter two for guitars, i have seen down to 2 ohms used for basses though)

David

[HateEvent]

Hughes and Kettner half stack' date=' also have a marshall park 80 watt.[/quote']

I think I can let you off on the H&K, they do have some good stuff.

If you said something like Marshall MG though... !

But yeah, I guess people 'wank over' valve amps just cos that's the sound they want, and that it can only come from a valve amp. Same is true for solid state though!

Hog, I use Mesa. If that's the sound you're aiming for, you won't get it from ANYTHING else. I tried Line 6's Mesa emulation channels and they just don't cut it.

See if you can try out a Mesa somewhere, and also an ENGL Fireball/Powerball. You'll surely find what you want from there if it's a Devin kinda tone you want!

[GraemeC]

let me dispel a few myths:

Sorry but none of those are myths that I have ever heard....

The biggest Myth is that you need valves to create a decent guitar sound live or in the studio.

I play a bit of guitar and I like valves....but know many guitarists who like the reliability and lack of maintenance required by valve amps....they are quite frankly a fuckin pain in the arse for a gigging guitarist....they dont like lying on their back, they dont like sudden changes of temperature, they dont like transit vans with fucked shockers and they especially dont like well meaning mates of guitarist who walk on to the stage after the show and shut off the mains switch without the amp being on standby for a few minutes.

My two favorite local guitarists of recent years have used Roland VG8 guitar synths and solid state amps......fuckin awsome live and recorded sound.

And as for valves for keyboards.......? what for? if you mean for players who use a fender rhodes and a hammond.....fine but they are like rocking horse shit, again solid state is perfectly fine.

And guess who got a bass pod pro yesterday....

G...

[Hog]

I think I can let you off on the H&K' date=' they do have some good stuff.

If you said something like Marshall MG though... !

But yeah, I guess people 'wank over' valve amps just cos that's the sound they want, and that it can only come from a valve amp. Same is true for solid state though!

Hog, I use Mesa. If that's the sound you're aiming for, you won't get it from ANYTHING else. I tried Line 6's Mesa emulation channels and they just don't cut it.

See if you can try out a Mesa somewhere, and also an ENGL Fireball/Powerball. You'll surely find what you want from there if it's a Devin kinda tone you want![/quote']

What kind of Mesa do you use? They (SYL) also use ESP guitars with EMG's

[ray@ladymercedes]

Sorry but none of those are myths that I have ever heard....

The biggest Myth is that you need valves to create a decent guitar sound live or in the studio.

I play a bit of guitar and I like valves....but know many guitarists who like the reliability and lack of maintenance required by valve amps....they are quite frankly a fuckin pain in the arse for a gigging guitarist....they dont like lying on their back' date=' they dont like sudden changes of temperature, they dont like transit vans with fucked shockers and they especially dont like well meaning mates of guitarist who walk on to the stage after the show and shut off the mains switch without the amp being on standby for a few minutes.

My two favorite local guitarists of recent years have used Roland VG8 guitar synths and solid state amps......fuckin awsome live and recorded sound.

And as for valves for keyboards.......? what for? if you mean for players who use a fender rhodes and a hammond.....fine but they are like rocking horse shit, again solid state is perfectly fine.

And guess who got a bass pod pro yesterday....

G...[/quote']

For Hammond it has to be the Leslie cab. No ss or valve amp is can emulate the sound that they can produce. Especially if the Hammond has a tonewheel generator. For the likes of the Hammond or Vox Continental it's purely a waste if you play through modern amps imo.

[HateEvent]

What kind of Mesa do you use? They (SYL) also use ESP guitars with EMG's

I use a Mesa Single Rectifier Rect-O-Verb Combo. It does the trick and is mighty loud! Being a 50 watt, I can crank it and get those sweet tones at slightly lower volumes than what the Dual or Triple would need.

I too use ESP guitars with EMG's

[Guest Gregor Ascension]

I think I can let you off on the H&K' date=' they do have some good stuff.

If you said something like Marshall MG though... !

But yeah, I guess people 'wank over' valve amps just cos that's the sound they want, and that it can only come from a valve amp. Same is true for solid state though!

Hog, I use Mesa. If that's the sound you're aiming for, you won't get it from ANYTHING else. I tried Line 6's Mesa emulation channels and they just don't cut it.

See if you can try out a Mesa somewhere, and also an ENGL Fireball/Powerball. You'll surely find what you want from there if it's a Devin kinda tone you want![/quote']

i agree with you about the marshall, the natural sounds out of that amp are disgusting

many people seem to swear by valve amps, which i disagree with. to me, there doesnt seem to be a massive difference between non valve amps, which mostly cost a great deal less. i was never the biggest fan of marshall amps, but i find that if you run effects, id doesnt matter what amp you use.