ca_gere Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I've only a passing interest in hip-hop, but there's some been discussion the last couple of pages has piqued my interest. What makes for good "technical rapping" exactly? (unlike most I'm interested in technique for its own sake sometimes, even though I agree it doesn't always make for great art). I'm thinking maybe "switches in flow" as Murrr out it (which seems like a more scripted, monotonous version of scat to me)? Something about deliberately being behind the beat (I note Shad up there mentions this in one of this verses; I first heard about it from uber-shredder Guthrie Govan, funnily enough)? It occurs to me it might be poly-rhythmic, again much like shred-jazz-fusioneers on whatever instruments, but I'm too much of a dolt to work this out. Enlighten me. On the subject of Eminem, I've never been into him and like Paranoid Android ranked him alongside Britney Spears and Linkin Park in my teens (actually I fucking loved Linkin Park for a bit, oh well). I think his earnest Marshall Mathers stuff is generally pretty dire (and monotonous, seriously) but stuff in the more zany Slim Shady mode - even if it maybe seems a bit tired now - I can appreciate as a genuinely zany, creative approach at least (and the lines in say Slim Shady are awesome, especially for a guy who in interviews etc just didn't seem all that eloquent or even intelligent). The Frank Zappa of rap, maybe, rather than Vai (and a bit more commercial success than either). On that note, I wanted to refute all the implicit Vai hate . I think all the "wanker" stuff that's levelled at him is just lazy dismissal on the part of people who don't like instrumental music (fair enough), at the first guy who comes to mind (actually that would be Satch, but it's ok to like him). Dig deeper and his stuff is full of Hendrix taken to new heights, jazz and classical, Eastern European fusions, and casual references to Asian music most people would build a career around - if you want all that in one track, with no distortion and no solos, check out Sisters. And really, he's one of the least technique driven instrumental rockers. Maybe there's a point in there about given "technical" artists a go, or something... Way too long. Here's some real contribution, a track from an acquaintance (and it's Japanese /hipster) I come back to a fair bit: https://soundcloud.com/tydemura/w8of2grrcoxb . His other stuff is moodier and jazzier, less anthemic-autotuned. Also: that Warchild track linked a page or two back is dynamite. I'm certainly no expert, and I wouldn't really want to be either, but there are a few elements to the 'technical rapper' conversation. Firstly, and most obviously, is sheer speed. Fast rappers are considered technical. Guys like Twista, Tech n9ne and the like are fast but shit - it's largely uninspired fast for the sake of fast nonsense. Busta Rhymes, Gift of Gab and Eligh (and there are loads, but those come to mind right now) I'd consider good 'fast' rappers because they incorporate more than just stecatto consonants in their flow, you can actually hear what they're saying - not only that but they use less 'filller' words so they say a lot in a short space of time and it actually means something rather than just written so it sounds impressive because it's quick.* Then there's the technicality to the wordplay and imagery. Someone like MC Abdominal I'd consider a good technical rapper because he's not just fast but he switches between first person and 3rd person, uses really original similes, metaphors, double meanings, etc and even incorporates 'characters' into his raps (e.g. asking a question as one character, answering it as another character). ** Thirdly, there's the delivery (or flow I suppose). Rapping 'to the beat' is a skill in itself but rapping 'against the beat', or even 'playing with the beat' (I wouldn't know what you'd actually call it but that's how I think of it) is an altogether different skill. A good rapper will mix it up and switch between rhythms and vocal patterns, intonation, dynamics, etc. *** Lastly, I think you have to factor in 'presence' or personality. I think Murr's Shad post is a good example of this. Could another rapper come along and make his lyrics work as well as he does? I highly doubt it. That obviously has a lot to do with the lyrical content but it also has a lot to do with how well you sell it, how much of your personality you put across. There's something uniquely soul-bearing about rap - it's highly concentrated songwriting. The rapper has a direct line to your brain for those 3 minutes and a rapper with a lot of presence really grabs that opportunity to make their thoughts hit hard. **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 references: * ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 *** (^^ an exagerated example but good nonetheless) ****Any rapper I consider good has this element. What I like about hip hop nowadays is that there is so much more to the personality side of things than the traditional hood thug that's always been (wrongly) associated with rappers. Take for example this guy I'm liking nowadays... he's got a bloody lisp but he just makes it work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Man, I love that Format/Abdominal track. Ab is great. Rappers rapping about how good they are at rapping is just the best. Jurassic 5 would be better if they stuck with that instead of just spelling their own band name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) I think ca_gere has hit the nail on the head here. I don't think there's a genre so dependent on character and charisma. That's why I can't really listen to rappers like Tech N9ne: it's technically outstanding, yes, but at times the guy just sounds like rapping is a mechanical function. He's clearly a very creative person: he just doesn't seem to be particularly good at putting his personality on wax. The best hip-hop, for me, has its creator's personality all over it: not just in the words, but in the delivery and tone of those words. Take Sean Price, for example. The guy's not saying anything profound at all. He's got about 1,000 different ways of saying "I'm a better rapper than you and I'm going to kill you," and that's about it, but he's so gruff and hard-edged. His character is perfect for that fist-in-yer-face braggadocio, and his production choices are such a good reflection of his personality:- Chance The Rapper might be the polar opposite. Bright, colourful, playful music concocted by a drug-addled mind and spat in a high-pitched, free-wheeling flow. His character is bold and huge and completely dominates the music:- Then there's a guy like Action Bronson, who just sounds (and looks) like he's having the best time, all of the time:- I could post a dozen others, but I think that's a pretty good sample. I sat down and thought about what really turns me away from certain hip-hop artists earlier this year, and a lot of the time, it's a lack of charisma or personality. I can forgive A$AP Ferg for being a terrible lyricist and a sloppy rapper because he doesn't sound like he's taking himself seriously at all, but I can't stand his mate, A$AP Rocky, because his character is completely obnoxious to me. Then there's Drake, who sounds to me like he's suffering from a permanent identity crisis, and forces through this incredibly unconvincing tough guy persona when he's clearly much better suited to softer tones. Anyway, good stuff in this thread lately. Let's all post a banger to celebrate! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNtw0AJKR4 Edited November 11, 2013 by Murrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 I reckon you blokes will be well into this guy (if you're not already). Seriously rich, varied and deep indie hip-hop: http://ycthecynic.bandcamp.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Take for example this guy I'm liking nowadays... he's got a bloody lisp but he just makes it work. ... ahem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 ... ahem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 He's great. I saw him in the summer and kept an eye on him since then. Seems like he's getting some good traction with this album. I haven't listened to it all the way through yet but liking what i've heard so far. Check out Homeboy Sandman who I also posted. I think his style is probably a bit love him or hate him but I really enjoy it and he's got loads on spotify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 He's great. I saw him in the summer and kept an eye on him since then. Seems like he's getting some good traction with this album. I haven't listened to it all the way through yet but liking what i've heard so far. Check out Homeboy Sandman who I also posted. I think his style is probably a bit love him or hate him but I really enjoy it and he's got loads on spotify. Yeah, I just got YC's album the other day and put it on for the first time this evening. Really great. I've bought the two 2013 Homeboy Sandman EPs and spun them a couple of times. I need to dive in a little deeper, but it sounds good so far. This is my currently listening project:- It's Elucid and Billy Woods (probably the most slept-on MC in the world at the moment). Really dense lyrics. Think I'll be nerding-out on Rap Genius with this one over the next few nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 That track is DEEP. Forgot to say, that Denmark fella's album is a good listen. Will definitely revisit it at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 I say it's better than the original but I don't really know yet, I'm just basing that off comparing some of the tracks one for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Dark, nasty, grim, swaggy, aggressive, hard, bassy, Floridian shit. This bloke has a lot to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 So this new Death Grips album just completely fell from nowhere: http://potholesinmyblog.com/download-death-grips-new-album-government-plates/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Newness from Evidence and Alchemist. It's obviously great. These guys have such excellent chemistry, every verse Evidence drops these days is great, and Al has actually become a pretty serviceable MC. The beat, obviously, knocks harder than a wrecking ball. Album is out on January 24th. EXCITED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirsten Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I had to play that twice because the first time I was too distracted by the excellent video to take in the music. Good work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 That's nice that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfer_Rosa Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I've been enjoying this:http://youtu.be/p-guanslq7Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I've been enjoying these two mixtapes http://liluglymane.bandcamp.com/album/three-sided-tape-volume-one http://www.datpiff.com/Kevin-Gates-The-Luca-Brasi-Story-mixtape.450051.html Sorry if either have been posted already, I didn't really keep up with the stuff posted in here lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrr Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I believe, gentlemen, that this is the first great album of 2014:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ca_gere Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 That's affa good. Will check out the album. I'm currently still all about Maffew Ragazino. New Mixtape came out recently. Some HEAVY ones on it. I think the little write-up in the link below sums him up nicely. No gimmicks, no forced image... just great rhymes. http://www.vibe.com/article/new-mixtape-maffew-ragazino-brownsvilles-jesus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirsten Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I believe, gentlemen, that this is the first great album of 2014:- I've been listening to the album on Spotify on your recommendation because I really liked that Step Master song a couple of months ago. The whole thing is ace. Really odd to hear all the weird snippets of British people in amongst the rappinz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't know what's wrong with me but i love this song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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