Jord_the_pord Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Was interested in knowing the local aberdeen musicians thoughts on out of town bands, for example, what you expect from them and such. By out of of town im meaning more closer to home bands from places like elgin, inverurie or in my case, keith. Wanting to know due to us getting the impression we sometimes dont act the way we should ?( I must say we probably have been guilty of leaving too early/arriving too late, although we have tried to improve this of late. However i do think weve been given a raw deal sometimes aswell. For example a few months ago we played a gig on saturday night in the tunnels. We got through there in time for our sound check but ended up not getting one due to the headlining band being late, but we just got on with it. We got up on stage at the time the promoter (who didnt seem to have any real interest in speaking to us, despite our efforts) told us, only to be told by someone else we were going on a bit later. Needless to say our sound was shite, and thus wasnt a great show for the folk we had taken with us to see. The promoter at the end said he would contact us about money (we had sold around 50 - 60 of tickets) and as of yet has not. Nae happy.Anyhoo...the question is, what could we do to make us look better in the eyes of the local fans/bands/promoters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Was interested in knowing the local aberdeen musicians thoughts on out of town bands, for example, what you expect from them and such. By out of of town im meaning more closer to home bands from places like elgin, inverurie or in my case, keith. Wanting to know due to us getting the impression we sometimes dont act the way we should ?( I must say we probably have been guilty of leaving too early/arriving too late, although we have tried to improve this of late. However i do think weve been given a raw deal sometimes aswell. For example a few months ago we played a gig on saturday night in the tunnels. We got through there in time for our sound check but ended up not getting one due to the headlining band being late, but we just got on with it. We got up on stage at the time the promoter (who didnt seem to have any real interest in speaking to us, despite our efforts) told us, only to be told by someone else we were going on a bit later. Needless to say our sound was shite, and thus wasnt a great show for the folk we had taken with us to see. The promoter at the end said he would contact us about money (we had sold around 50 - 60 of tickets) and as of yet has not. Nae happy.Anyhoo...the question is, what could we do to make us look better in the eyes of the local fans/bands/promoters?Turn up to soundcheck on time.Be polite to venue staff, sound engineer, promoter, and other bands.If you're using other band's gear, don't misuse it, and thank them for it.Continue to be where you are meant to be (and when you are meant to be there) for the rest of the night (by this, if you leave the venue between your soundcheck and stage time, don't be late returning to the venue for that stage time).Play as well as you can and respect the audience, be it an audience of three people, thirty people, or 300 people.Thank the engineer and the promoter before you leave. Provided they did their job, that is. Which most do.All of this goes for every band really, be it local, semi-local, or touring. I would also suggest avoiding playing gigs where you're expected to sell tickets, too. That is the promoter's job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Speaking from experience, there is quite a big chicken/egg scenario being out of towners: a lot of promoters won't fancy taking a punt on you in case no-one turns up, however any folk you would bring along will probably not fancy going to a shitty Tuesday night gig with nae advertising more than a couple of times.Best approach is probably getting really shit hot, recording a really strong 3/4 track EP (possibly getting yer local gigs filmed to a half decent standard) and then start firing it at promoters, if you wait it out you might be able to slip onto a much more favourable gig and actually get paid a bit of dosh. If a promoter at one of the aforementioned shitty midweek gigs thinks he can worm his/her way out of paying you because it bombed, he/she will.....Oh, and do everything that idol_wild says. He talks sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 As far as I see it, "out of town" bands should be treated no different than more local acts, provided they act in a professional manner. Soundguys etc don't really give a stuff where you're from if you act like twits!! I've seen "local" soundguys absolutely tear a strip of a big touring bands tour manager as they were 2hrs late for soundcheck.Biggest tip I can give you is ALWAYS be on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Don't just be polite, be friendly. I've not got much else to add to idol_wilds post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idol_wild Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 I missed quite a crucial one: don't go over your allocated time slot for soundcheck. Regardless if other bands seem to. If you're given 20 minutes to set up, run through your set up a few times during your rehearsals. I know this sounds a bit stupid, but the more you practice setting up your gear, the less time you will be able to do it in. Setting up often takes more time than the actual soundcheck itself, so you're only doing yourself favours, and you'll impress promoters, venue staff, sound engineers and other bands if you're quick and efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord_the_pord Posted December 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Cheers for the tips folks I think we're pretty good when it comes to general gigging eitiquette, but theres always room for improvement. We could probably act a little more friendly than polite as soundian said, its just we play the majority of our gigs in bars and halls in smaller locations, which in our experience, is a totally different kettle of fish to Aberdeen hence the atmosphere isn't what we're used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Rocker Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 There used to be a good article on gigging in the articles section - many experienced members of the forum contributed some really decent advice. It would be worth checking it out.I agree about trying to be as slick as possible when setting your gear up. And if you're sharing backline, take a photo on your phone of the settings you're using after you soundcheck. It's also worth timing your set at practises - it's a pet hate of mine when bands over-run their stagetimes. Be flexible with your's too - if a night is running late you'll score Brownie points by maybe cutting a song or two out to try and get the night back on track rather than playing your full set regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 There used to be a good article on gigging in the articles section - many experienced members of the forum contributed some really decent advice. It would be worth checking it out.Gigging Tips - Articles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 minutes of hate Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 you should worry about being from "out of town". alot of bands that throws themselves out there will be from out of town 75% of the time. alot of the advice on here is really sound, the band i play in is from forres so we have to travel a long way for most of our gigs. to add to some of the comments i would suggest the following1. don't be afraid to turn down some gigs - it's not the end of the world missing an offer. You should pick shows that you are comfortable with, can make it on time for soundcheck and generally know it won't end up in drama (although this takes a bit of practice, as most bands know). With time you will get offered more and more shows.2. keep gigging - the more you gig in different places the more familiar you will get with different customs, people and expectations. 3. talk to the other bands/sound guy before you play - arrange sharing gear if the other bands are up for it. it saves time and builds trust, it's good seeing a band respecting equipment and using it well. as for speaking to the sound guy, one of the best things a band can do is make a tech spec, a sheet of paper or file which illustrates the exact set up a band needs on stage. this seriously saves time, looks professional and leaves a good impression with promoters.4. concentrate on being good and treat a new crowd/city/town as a blank canvas everytime. first impressions mean everything in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 The single most important bit of advice that I can give beyond the obvious (and vital) be on time, be polite etc is to manage your own sound. Obviously I'm not suggesting doing away with the sound engineer at live shows, but the simple fact is that most bands don't have enough of a clue about what they can do to improve their own front of house sound.Some of us have played shows with shit (drunk, disinterested, woteva) sound engineers, but they are few and far between. Most engineers make the most of what they are given; it is up to the band to provide a top-notch sound from their end. Your band should spend time at practice finding optimal levels that enhance the music (usually, these are considerably quieter than you think). It can change from venue to venue, but not wildly. If you arrive at soundcheck and can quickly find a suitable level before the engineer needs to do his part, then you're on to a winner. In short, it's about minimising variables. If you are providing an optimal sound from your end, how far wrong can the engineer really go? Plenty of good bands, touring bands, are guilty of not knowing their own equipment and expecting too much of the live engineer. Sort out things at your end, then let the engineer do his job.If nothing else, at least you will then know that a shit FOH sound is his fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Holy shit, can't believe I omitted this because it drives me mad (and I'm not a sound engineer): soundchecks are about getting a good sound and NOT about showing off. If the sound engineer asks for the drummer to hit the snare drum, then hit the snare drum with solid, even strokes at regular intervals. Do not do a triple flamadiddle. Likewise, when he asks for you to play the whole kit, play a slow, solid, groove that evenly incorporates all aspects of the kit. It is not your opportunity to play a fucking Cradle of Bodom tom solo in double time, as that does not help the engineer hear all of the kit in context.The sound engineer has encountered better musicians than you, and you are impressing nobody. You are, however, slowing down the soundcheck process, and annoying everybody in the venue who isn't in your band.Likewise, guitarists shouldn't fucking noodle on their instrument while the engineer has requested the bassist play. Drummers should STFU more than any species that I've ever encountered, and I'm a drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 The single most important bit of advice that I can give beyond the obvious (and vital) be on time, be polite etc is to manage your own sound. Obviously I'm not suggesting doing away with the sound engineer at live shows, but the simple fact is that most bands don't have enough of a clue about what they can do to improve their own front of house sound.Some of us have played shows with shit (drunk, disinterested, woteva) sound engineers, but they are few and far between. Most engineers make the most of what they are given; it is up to the band to provide a top-notch sound from their end. Your band should spend time at practice finding optimal levels that enhance the music (usually, these are considerably quieter than you think). It can change from venue to venue, but not wildly. If you arrive at soundcheck and can quickly find a suitable level before the engineer needs to do his part, then you're on to a winner. In short, it's about minimising variables. If you are providing an optimal sound from your end, how far wrong can the engineer really go? Plenty of good bands, touring bands, are guilty of not knowing their own equipment and expecting too much of the live engineer. Sort out things at your end, then let the engineer do his job.If nothing else, at least you will then know that a shit FOH sound is his fault! Spot on, Christy. This is even more important in small venues where the backline might actually be a large part of the FOH sound. Personally I think an engineers job is to optimise the PA equipment at the required operating volume and enhance what's coming off the stage: not fix, enhance. An engineer has limited control over a band's sound so you have to give it to them in the right ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorge Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Likewise, when he asks for you to play the whole kit, play a slow, solid, groove that evenly incorporates all aspects of the kit. It is not your opportunity to play a fucking Cradle of Bodom tom solo in double time, as that does not help the engineer hear all of the kit in context.I know what you're saying, but if you happen to be in a death/speedMEHTUL outfit or suchlike with massive blasts/fills/etc, then you really DO need to play it to give the SE an idea of what he can expect to come out FOH.(Goes without saying that he/she shouldn't take the piss though....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundian Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I know what you're saying, but if you happen to be in a death/speedMEHTUL outfit or suchlike with massive blasts/fills/etc, then you really DO need to play it to give the SE an idea of what he can expect to come out FOH.(Goes without saying that he/she shouldn't take the piss though....) At the point Christy is talking about, the engineer is still concentrating on individual drums, dialling in gating, compression and EQing where necessary and getting a rough mix.Once the technical side is sorted then there's no point in getting a warp-speed blast through because you're going to hear it in a few minutes anyway when you get the band to run through a couple of songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkaline Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The single most important bit of advice that I can give beyond the obvious (and vital) be on time, be polite etc is to manage your own sound. Obviously I'm not suggesting doing away with the sound engineer at live shows, but the simple fact is that most bands don't have enough of a clue about what they can do to improve their own front of house sound.Some of us have played shows with shit (drunk, disinterested, woteva) sound engineers, but they are few and far between. Most engineers make the most of what they are given; it is up to the band to provide a top-notch sound from their end. Your band should spend time at practice finding optimal levels that enhance the music (usually, these are considerably quieter than you think). It can change from venue to venue, but not wildly. If you arrive at soundcheck and can quickly find a suitable level before the engineer needs to do his part, then you're on to a winner. In short, it's about minimising variables. If you are providing an optimal sound from your end, how far wrong can the engineer really go? Plenty of good bands, touring bands, are guilty of not knowing their own equipment and expecting too much of the live engineer. Sort out things at your end, then let the engineer do his job.If nothing else, at least you will then know that a shit FOH sound is his fault!Absolutely spot on. If i had any advice to pass on to other bands this would be one of the main points. It not only makes the SEs job easier but it also makes learning and improving your songs a lot easier when you're practising (especially seen as though you'll likely be playing at lower volumes and actually be able to hear each other).A healthy level of mutal respect for all parties involved and checking your ego at the door goes without saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 First and foremost, make sure you address the audience on a whole as a city, but intentionally call them the name of the nearest rival city. It always went down a treat if you played at the 1in12 in Bradford and said "Hello Leeds". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christy Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I know what you're saying, but if you happen to be in a death/speedMEHTUL outfit or suchlike with massive blasts/fills/etc, then you really DO need to play it to give the SE an idea of what he can expect to come out FOH.(Goes without saying that he/she shouldn't take the piss though....)Nope, not at this stage. While the engineer is still working on balancing drum levels (ie. before the band actually run through a number), the last thing you should be doing is flailing around the kit (even if that is your band's type of music). Let him get the fundamentals of the kit's sound absolutely spot, which means playing a boring, repetitive, solid groove that incorporates the full kit, before going hog wild.EDIT:Grunch. Basically, exactly what Ian just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Lock in financial agreement for the show, before the show. Although it's shit, you don't really have a leg to stand on if you've not discussed it properly, or at all, and end up not getting paid anything.Also, don't sell yourself short. See too many bands acting like lapdogs with promoters. Remember you're doing them a favour too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gold Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Wear a really nice shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 minutes of hate Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 i'd like to add, do not i repeat do not brush your teeth with dog shit. also clothing and footwear is useful as people don't like pasty skin and the lights may reflect off into some poor buggers eye. take your instruments to every gig as you may need to play them to make noises. but most of all, have fun and don't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gold Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Why not warm up with some light heckling of anyone playing before you?Remember, it's a competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 WWHRD?What would Henry Rollins do?Henry Rollins would do this He'd punch you in the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcalder82 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have only just seen this and can assume its the Woe Betides show you did for me in Oct.Would like to clarify a few points.Firstly 1 - re payment - we pay all our support bands and I told one of you that I would arrange payment if you emailed me details. In this case I think you all left before the end when I settle up with bands generally. You can note that both other supports were paid what was agreed with them. Please send me an email or message me and I will arrange for the money to either be transferred or we can get it to you when youre next in Aberdeen. Id prefer that that posting on here - for example you were all in Drummonds last night - could have easily spoken to me - if I had remembered then I would have settled up with you there and then.2 - re sound issue - yes this was far from ideal. The headliner were late and indeed that was annoying. This does happen on occassion and as shit as it may be, my main prioroty rightly or wrongly has to be their soundcheck. This is something that annoys me too so I totally see your point. To be fair the sound in Tunnels 2 at that point was generally shit anyway so could be a factor. Thankfully this has been improved now although I generally would not use that Tunnel anyway and was only due to being the only room free that date.3 - if you feel I didnt make the effort to speak to you, I apologise. I have been accused of this before and i assure you its not because Im rude. I definitely introduced myself to you and tried to keep you posted as much as pos and I def spoke to some of you before you left. Bear in mind I didnt know where the headliner were either so was a tad stressed etc. I then maybe unfairly was a bit pissed off at being threatned and abused by some of the people you took with you who had walked past me without paying to get in and were refusing to pay the entry fee. I know this was not your fault however.Anyway my basic point is that I put on shit loads of gigs, try to treat everyone well and on the whole think we do, hence why so many bands return to play for us. Yes mistakes happen and if bands leave early then sometimes they dont get paid. All Im saying is there is always money for supports with us so pls just let me know of any problem so I can sort it. Reading this is the first I knew of any issue.Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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