Cloud Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4310926.stmI think it's absolutely terrible - "Aberdeen City And Shire" just sounds plain awful, especially when using the word "Grampian" would be a far better fit, although not "correct", i'm sure Moray wouldn't mind getting in on the act... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF Scott Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 I think its hilarious that a person(s) was probably paid a lot of money to come up with that awful term and logo. It literally looks like it took about 10 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 best bit is, the new brand is all about promoting Aberdeen and the Shire in an economic capacity.So they bypassed local consultancy firms and hired a London company instead.Err... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 this kind of thing really really fucks me off.160 000 this cost. when there's a very high standard of output from the art department at aberdeen college, grays school of art and indeed local design and consultancy firms. and it looks fucking shit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 i'm sure the council workers who were threatened with pay cuts will be delighted to see that there's money to spend on stuff like this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 i'm sure the council workers who were threatened with pay cuts will be delighted to see that there's money to spend on stuff like this...hmmm, that's a whole other kettle of fish. and was sensationalised by the media outrageously while being handled quite badly by the council. however, probably best not to get into it as i've found people get very angry very fast when talking about it and all rational discussion goes out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv tanned Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 ok dokes. will leave it alone then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 well it's still being argued about:http://www.thisisnorthscotland.com/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=149475&command=displayContent&sourceNode=149205&contentPK=13262523the problem is that it's exceedingly complicated and the press over simplified it(by my understanding) and inflamed it. i've spoken to a couple of people who were possibly(it was never definite they'd lose money) facing pay cuts and they got rather worked up about the whole thing. which is understandable if you haven't been properly informed as to what was happening. ah well. the problem is that if they don't sort it then the council could lose millions to lawsuits which wouldn't go down well with the local press either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 The thing that confuses me - instead of cutting their pay, why not simply freeze it if they're due to lose out until their pay becomes "in line"? Any predictions on how much our council tax bills will go up by next year as a result of all this fuss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToasterCoaster Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 "Money came from the Scottish Executive's Better Cities Growth Fund." (doesn't that sound like an obscure fund?)Surely this is from an entirely different barrel of kit-kats, than the money used to pay city Council workers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 The thing that confuses me - instead of cutting their pay' date=' why not simply freeze it if they're due to lose out until their pay becomes "in line"? Any predictions on how much our council tax bills will go up by next year as a result of all this fuss?[/quote']the pay cuts wouldn't come into force till 2007 or something. plus they were initial paycuts based on their current job descriptions. the idea was that it would open discussions up with the staff losing money so that they can assist in rewriting their job descriptions to keep their pay the same. in other words they were being paid more for doing less compared to others in their line of work(based on their job descriptions not what they actually did) and this was being put right. plus i'm led to believe that those at the bottom of the ladder in the council would not have lost out as much as the press made out, for instance reports on grampian showed pictures of binmen and leisure attendants who were either gaining money or staying the same. every council in the country has to implement these changes because there's a lawyer going round the country encouraging council workers to sue their employers under equal pay law, where aberdeen council messed up was not communicating properly with their employees so that they fully understood the situation. should be interesting next year when aberdeenshire council tries to implement these changes.it was so bad that people wouldn't press the button in the lift for anyone working in the personnel and organisational development department of the council. as for this slogan i'd imagine the money is indeed from somewhere completely seperate from the wage budget which is probably voted for by a seperate committee or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachie Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 "And Shire"? Are we living in Middle Earth?Then again... I suppose with hobbits like Cloud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 www.aberdeen(andshire)-music.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Then again... I suppose with hobbits like Cloud... oh shut up, i'm taller than you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 I'm guessing it's either to make the logo seem more dynamic or it represents the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Cynic Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 The bump on the right looks vaguely like Bennachie (maybe?).Still crap though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsheepie Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 the pay cuts wouldn't come into force till 2007 or something. plus they were initial paycuts based on their current job descriptions. the idea was that it would open discussions up with the staff losing money so that they can assist in rewriting their job descriptions to keep their pay the same. in other words they were being paid more for doing less compared to others in their line of work(based on their job descriptions not what they actually did) and this was being put right. plus i'm led to believe that those at the bottom of the ladder in the council would not have lost out as much as the press made out' date=' for instance reports on grampian showed pictures of binmen and leisure attendants who were either gaining money or staying the same. every council in the country has to implement these changes because there's a lawyer going round the country encouraging council workers to sue their employers under equal pay law, where aberdeen council messed up was not communicating properly with their employees so that they fully understood the situation. should be interesting next year when aberdeenshire council tries to implement these changes.it was so bad that people wouldn't press the button in the lift for anyone working in the personnel and organisational development department of the council. as for this slogan i'd imagine the money is indeed from somewhere completely seperate from the wage budget which is probably voted for by a seperate committee or something.[/quote']Um, where did you hear all that? The pay cuts are supposed (if the council gets its way) to come into effect next April. People who got pay cuts were going to get their pay frozen for 3 years (or until they caught up with the new pay scale). In some cases, after 3 years they could still face a cut if the new scale hadn't caught up with their old one. The problem has nothing to do with a lack of communication with staff, we know whats going on, the whole evaluation process is flawed. For example, why not get the job descriptions right before issuing the first provisional letter? And as far as getting the descriptions right, there is now a 32? page questionnaire for people that got a 15% or more cut that has to be done (with the wonderful disclaimer that any member of staff that writes something false in it knowingly or otherwise will face disiplinary action, make a mistake, you're screwed?) Oh yeah and if jobs are re-evaluated and come out at a higher level than the provisional grade there could be knock on effects which will decrease other jobs (Call me stupid but that sounds like they are just balancing money, not doing an actual job evaluation?)And, the lower paid staff could actually still lose out, there is a whole other thing happening at the same time which affects terms and conditions, they will have to work more hours, overtimes being cut etc.Oh, and i don't know who told you about the lift thing, but i personally had the lift door shut on me twice because people from personnel never held the doors open (not sure if its cos they were scared to be in lifts with other staff or what?).Don't think much of the new brand either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Um' date=' where did you hear all that? The pay cuts are supposed (if the council gets its way) to come into effect next April. People who got pay cuts were going to get their pay frozen for 3 years (or until they caught up with the new pay scale). In some cases, after 3 years they could still face a cut if the new scale hadn't caught up with their old one. The problem has nothing to do with a lack of communication with staff, we know whats going on, the whole evaluation process is flawed. For example, why not get the job descriptions right before issuing the first provisional letter? And as far as getting the descriptions right, there is now a 32? page questionnaire for people that got a 15% or more cut that has to be done (with the wonderful disclaimer that any member of staff that writes something false in it knowingly or otherwise will face disiplinary action, make a mistake, you're screwed?) Oh yeah and if jobs are re-evaluated and come out at a higher level than the provisional grade there could be knock on effects which will decrease other jobs (Call me stupid but that sounds like they are just balancing money, not doing an actual job evaluation?)And, the lower paid staff could actually still lose out, there is a whole other thing happening at the same time which affects terms and conditions, they will have to work more hours, overtimes being cut etc.Oh, and i don't know who told you about the lift thing, but i personally had the lift door shut on me twice because people from personnel never held the doors open (not sure if its cos they were scared to be in lifts with other staff or what?).Don't think much of the new brand either.[/quote']sorry, i was reasonably vague about the 2007 thing. when i said come into effect i meant the pay freeze, just didn't phrase it right. i don't work for the council but i've heard a few things from reliable sources(the lift thing definitely happened but possibly only on the first day). i don't understand what you mean about getting the job description right either, the idea was that issuing the letters would begin a process whereby the staff facing cuts would work with the personnel department to adjust their job description(by my understanding anyway) and get up to the pay they were on before the re-evaluation not to just tell them a whole new job description(which would no doubt be just as unpopular). i'm not claiming by any means to know all the ins and outs or saying the council are doing the right thing, i'm just going on what i've been told and i've been trying to understand the situation a little better as it's interesting. no matter what the council did they are in a no win situation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinosaur Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 its poo."this is nothing like the shire mr Frodo" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsheepie Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 sorry' date=' i was reasonably vague about the 2007 thing. when i said come into effect i meant the pay freeze, just didn't phrase it right. i don't work for the council but i've heard a few things from reliable sources(the lift thing definitely happened but possibly only on the first day). i don't understand what you mean about getting the job description right either, the idea was that issuing the letters would begin a process whereby the staff facing cuts would work with the personnel department to adjust their job description(by my understanding anyway) and get up to the pay they were on before the re-evaluation not to just tell them a whole new job description(which would no doubt be just as unpopular). i'm not claiming by any means to know all the ins and outs or saying the council are doing the right thing, i'm just going on what i've been told and i've been trying to understand the situation a little better as it's interesting. no matter what the council did they are in a no win situation here.[/quote']Ok, people with cuts were given the chance to redo their job descriptions, add extra responsibiliies etc (supposedly to get the pay increased and more in line with the current scale), but personnel were not helping (at least in our departments case, they didn't turn up to a meeting to discuss things(at their own desk)and other things). I think that the council would like the public to think that they are trying to get their staff fair deals but people will lose out. They can't re-evaluate the jobs to get them back to their original pay, where would they get the money to pay the underpaid people? Thats my main problem with the whole thing, it is not an actual evaluation process, its more a 'we have x amount of money lets rejig the scales/jobs to fit'. Want an actual example of the flaws? I was given a pay rise last year, i got a letter saying that the director of personnel and my department got together, discussed my case and decided to pay me what i was worth. My provisional new pay is less than that amount. The majority of my department took pay cuts, over 80% of us (and a lot of them by more than 15%). Anyway.its basically not as straightforward as some people make out, take all the council press releases with a pinch of salt. Why didn't they just increase the underpaid people's wages and leave the rest of us alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachie Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 The bump on the right looks vaguely like Bennachie (maybe?).Still crap though! In that case would it not be Bennachie and Clachnaben since they're supposed to be the "twa landmarks o' the sea"...?And Cloud - barely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 And Cloud - barely.The point still remains half an inch or half a foot, i'm still taller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
framheim Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Anyway.its basically not as straightforward as some people make out' date=' take all the council press releases with a pinch of salt. Why didn't they just increase the underpaid people's wages and leave the rest of us alone?[/quote']i think the idea was that some people were being paid more than their job description allowed but this was on paper, what they actually did was worth the money so they had to enter into a process to put that on paper. the council have a huge amount of employees and as it was all being done to avoid law suits they had to make it a legal process across the whole council. which is complicated and time consuming. i'm certainly not saying that personnel were faultless as i don't know precisely what's been going on, but the press have made it sound overly simple and not presented it in an unbiased manner. also weren't the unions involved in the whole process of evaluation? from my understanding they'd agreed to the whole process and the changes then as soon as it came out they threatened industrial action. any idea what happened there? anyhoo, it's gonna be interesting to see how it pans out. hope you don't face too much upheaval in your job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.