chilli Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 26million pounds could pay for two TOP quality arts centres with music venuesto cater for an audience of 1000.(The new Perth City Concert Hall is state of the art & costing 17million I believe) Opinions please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 No.The AECC is primarly used for oil conferences anyway....this has nothing to do with the people of Aberdeen whom the council should be working to help. I mean, I took a trip to that big tower thing one day at a bored lunchtime, its not even open to the public, christ knows what it is. Doesn't the council work in part of AECC though??I was working in AC Yule when we were pricing up the cost of the glass for the new building, it was shocking itself. A classic example of a company blinded by the word OIL, thinking its a gold mine when really its a drought...Oil Killed Aberdeen..discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 26million pounds could pay for two TOP quality arts centres with music venuesto cater for an audience of 1000.But we don't need two top quality arts centres with music venues - it's not like there's an overwhelming demand in Aberdeen for that kind of thing. On the other hand, there is a need for high quality conference facilities here - something that the AECC excels at, and is possibly even better than the SECC at holding. You have to consider that the AECC isn't really designed for music alone - it's a multi purpose arena, and concerts are the icing on the cake really. In Aberdeen, really, what use would there be for a "top quality art centre with music venue" of 1000 capacity? It's not like in Glasgow, pre-Carling Academy when the only venue of significant capacity was the Barrowlands and there was a demand for another venue. It's also doubtful whether enough people would make a larger 'arts centre' viable - depending if you believe the evening rag, the Lemon Tree isn't viable on its own, so..where would be the point in a larger place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Oil Killed Aberdeen..discuss You are joking aren't you? Aberdeen would be nothing if it isn't wasn't for the oil industry. Both you and me wouldn't have jobs in IT if it wasn't for the oil for starters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Umm, one of the main reasons the AECC was actually built was to house Offshore Europe, and it still has to have at least double the space extra on top of what is there, every two years. I still dont buy the councils point that Offshore Europe will offset the cost by the amount it will bring into the local economy. Smells like bullshit to me.There are plenty of under utilised venues in Aberdeen , or ones where the managment are so far out of touch with what is actually happening it is actually damaging to their livelyhood (not mentioning any names) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 But we don't need two top quality arts centres with music venues - it's not like there's an overwhelming demand in Aberdeen for that kind of thing. On the other hand' date=' there is a need for high quality conference facilities here - something that the AECC excels at, and is possibly even better than the SECC at holding. You have to consider that the AECC isn't really designed for music alone - it's a multi purpose arena, and concerts are the icing on the cake really. In Aberdeen, really, what use would there be for a "top quality art centre with music venue" of 1000 capacity? It's not like in Glasgow, pre-Carling Academy when the only venue of significant capacity was the Barrowlands and there was a demand for another venue. It's also doubtful whether enough people would make a larger 'arts centre' viable - depending if you believe the evening rag, the Lemon Tree isn't viable on its own, so..where would be the point in a larger place?[/quote']as usual you turn everything on its head, i was sighting what could be bought for the same money, doesn't meant its right. The main point is The AECC excels @ needing 26million to keep it going, so by its own admission, it is a red herring, a white elephant, a millenium dome. As a venue its an airport hanger.Of course maybe some of the less discerning amonst you enjoy being ripped off.If its soo successful let private enterprise pour funds into it. As a tax payer & a community charge payer I don't want any of my money going into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 as usual you turn everything on its head' date=' i was sighting what could be bought for the same money, doesn't meant its right. The main point is The AECC excels @ needing 26million to keep it going, so by its own admission, it is a red herring, a white elephant, a millenium dome. As a venue its an airport hanger.Of course maybe some of the less discerning amonst you enjoy being ripped off.If its soo successful let private enterprise pour funds into it. As a tax payer & a community charge payer I don't want any of my money going into this.[/quote']You tell him Chillster! The boy's a ... as everThe money that may be spent should be rasied by the private sector if it is deemed so important to them. Yes, maybe the council can step up and support, but only to a proportianate amount surley. Did you see the headlines in the press today? 2000 'council employees to take a wage cut! Yet there is discussion about 26 million to rescue a god awfull venue. What about an arts centre, what about supporting the venues that make a difference, what about the city centre, what about a ned skip, what about a huge amount of things... A very big slap in the back of the head is needed for anyone in a relevant position that is considering this. The first Offshore events took place in huge tents for christ sake!!!!! I'm fucking angry! And voices should be raised and heard! C'mon tax payers, have a say in where your money may end up!!!!!!! I like the way Cloud basically picks up the stick in the middle and runs around in circles followed by headless chickens!!! Weeeesht!!!!!!!Jim Ewen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Jack Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Ridiculous, especially considering in 1998 The Council decided it couldn't afford to keep running the Arts Centre (I'm guessing a few thousand squid) and tried to sell it off. A campaign, which was run by the people who used the place, was eventually successful and a 25 year lease was signed. The Arts Centre is still run largely by volunteers, and is doing very well.So the Council won't spend a few thousand to run a venue that the people clearly want/need and which obviously works, but will plough 26 million into that waste of space (literally)?*slow claps* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Stax Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 ...It's 'disgusting' that it is even being considered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsheepie Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 You tell him Chillster! The boy's a ... as everThe money that may be spent should be rasied by the private sector if it is deemed so important to them. Yes' date=' maybe the council can step up and support, but only to a proportianate amount surley. Did you see the headlines in the press today? 2000 'council employees to take a wage cut! Yet there is discussion about 26 million to rescue a god awfull venue. What about an arts centre, what about supporting the venues that make a difference, what about the city centre, what about a ned skip, what about a huge amount of things... A very big slap in the back of the head is needed for anyone in a relevant position that is considering this. The first Offshore events took place in huge tents for christ sake!!!!! I'm fucking angry! And voices should be raised and heard! C'mon tax payers, have a say in where your money may end up!!!!!!! I like the way Cloud basically picks up the stick in the middle and runs around in circles followed by headless chickens!!! Weeeesht!!!!!!!Jim Ewen[/quote']Well, speaking as one of those employess that got a wage cut today i can't believe they are even considering giving them money. There are people in my department who "provisionally" have had theirwages cut by a quarter! Why do that to people and bail out some building? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 See my point regarding oil...The only things that matter in this world is gold, oil and drugs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 The thing with this is that people are looking too much at the "oh no, it's costing all these millions of pounds" - well, the idea is that the council will take on their loan and the AECC will pay the money back, but without a crippling rate of interest (to them). So effectively, the council isn't spending much money - and what they are spending, they're almost assured to get back from the boost to tourism/etc as a result of the AECC being there. But yeah, I agree that the venue itself is terrible - if it had been a proper arena, different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I'm going to play devil's advocate here as this argument is becoming a little biased and misinformed in parts...If you read the following articlehttp://www.thisisaberdeen.com/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=148581&command=displayContent&sourceNode=148329&home=yes&contentPK=13026539&localNewsNodeId=148311you will discover that the AECC needs cash because it can't afford the bank loan it took out to do the 18 million upgrade in 2003. They aren't asking for 26 million (where did that figure come from?) or for all the money up front. They are asking for the Council to pick up the bank loan and pay the interest on it - that will cost the council (i.e. us council tax payers) an estimated 1.3 million a year. Still not small fry by any scale of the imagination...Personally, I couldn't give a toss about the AECC but one thing you can say about it is that it brings in a lot of money to Aberdeen and the local economy as a whole. Some of that money will actually go into some of your businesses through increased trade and custom. An example. It might not mean much to lots of you but Offshore Europe is a big deal to lots of other people - it brings in hundreds of thousands of pounds to the local economy. If the AECC wasn't around then Aberdeen would not host this conference - it would probably move to Norway instead. Many of the other conferences that go on in the year also attract hundreds and thousands of visitors from the rest of the UK and abroad into Aberdeen. Im thinking that cant be a bad thingI'm not trying to defend the AECC here. I'm just trying to balance the argument a bit. The fact is that generally speaking it brings in a lot of cash to Aberdeen and the local economy - art centres and social workers generally don't. It sucks - but that's life. I reckon the council will pick up the AECCs tab regardless of what people say for this very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 No.The AECC is primarly used for oil conferences anyway....this has nothing to do with the people of Aberdeen whom the council should be working to helpOil Killed Aberdeen..discuss man.....do you have any idea how much money the annual offshore europe exibition bennifits the local econamy, dont know the figures but its alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsheepie Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I'm going to play devil's advocate here as this argument is becoming a little biased and misinformed in parts...If you read the following articlehttp://www.thisisaberdeen.com/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=148581&command=displayContent&sourceNode=148329&home=yes&contentPK=13026539&localNewsNodeId=148311you will discover that the AECC needs cash because it can't afford the bank loan it took out to do the 18 million upgrade in 2003. They aren't asking for 26 million (where did that figure come from?) or for all the money up front. They are asking for the Council to pick up the bank loan and pay the interest on it - that will cost the council (i.e. us council tax payers) an estimated 1.3 million a year. Still not small fry by any scale of the imagination...Personally' date=' I couldn't give a toss about the AECC but one thing you can say about it is that it brings in a lot of money to Aberdeen and the local economy as a whole. Some of that money will actually go into some of your businesses through increased trade and custom. An example. It might not mean much to lots of you but Offshore Europe is a big deal to lots of other people - it brings in hundreds of thousands of pounds to the local economy. If the AECC wasn't around then Aberdeen would not host this conference - it would probably move to Norway instead. Many of the other conferences that go on in the year also attract hundreds and thousands of visitors from the rest of the UK and abroad into Aberdeen. Im thinking that cant be a bad thingI'm not trying to defend the AECC here. I'm just trying to balance the argument a bit. The fact is that generally speaking it brings in a lot of cash to Aberdeen and the local economy - art centres and social workers generally don't. It sucks - but that's life. I reckon the council will pick up the AECCs tab regardless of what people say for this very reason.[/quote']Umm,if you read the article you linked to it tells you where the 26million figure is from (the 18.7million loan + an extra 7.5million loan).Ok so it's 'only' 1.3million a year, thats still a lot of money and what i don't get is how they can justify doing this while they are forcing the council employees to take hefty pay cuts (maybe thats how they can afford the loan?) Maybe the oil companys should stump up some of the money?(And yes i will admit to be a bit biased about this issue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 didnt the council jump to the lemon trees rescue last year when mass debts went public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamina Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Was that upgrade purely cosmetic? The last time I was in there was for the Radiohead gig last year, and I thought it looked like a glorified cattle market. Might as well have had the gig at Thainstone!Maybe the problem has been that the AECC people haven't been good enough at attracting the right kind of exhibitions/events that are more likely to make money for them. I could say the same for a lot of things in Aberdeen though. For the so-called oil capital of Europe, it's not that rich looking a place to be honest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 man.....do you have any idea how much money the annual offshore europe exibition bennifits the local econamy' date=' dont know the figures but its alot.[/quote']And who does the local economy benefit? Wait, we're investing it back into supporting the Oil companies....doh! And what is top of every oil companies agenda just now? CUT COSTS! What does this mean? AXE JOBS! But wait, the oil industry is responsible for around 40% of the work force in Aberdeen....what do they do now?! And I thought you said the oil industry was supporting the "local economy". (SEE: The coal industry)Most companies who specialise in servicing the oil industry and now looking to different sectors, and even oil companies are buying into different sectors, often with drastic results, one great example I can't repeat here.... but, in turn, means the company is forced to cut more costs, and axe more jobs.Whats more, I know many companies (personally!) who will not use the AECC for its purpose as its too expensive, and again, in keeping with the cost cutting excercises, will host their conferences elsewhere. With this lack of regular work for the conference centre, how do they expect to raise the funds to repay their loan?This is the story of Aberdeen. With the oil boom came a stench of capitalism, and local businesses caught a whiff of this bug, and thus increased the costs of their services to capitalise from the new found wealth in the city. Of course, this priced everyone else out of the equation...and when the oil industry took a nasty dip, so too did their expenditure. Suddenly the local businesses who now were dependent upon the oil industry lost their only customers, guess what happens next...Yes I'm biased, cos all around me in Aberdeen I see the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, and I don't think some fucking eyesore which is in no way the "world-class venue.....competing with the likes of Vancouver and Sydney" they claim it to be, going to make any real impact on this sad sorry place called Aberdeen...try telling the homeless that the economy is booming and ask them what it means to them....prepare to duck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betamax Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 If I was the council Id set fire to it and claim on the insurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepeep Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 See my point regarding oil...The only things that matter in this world is gold' date=' oil and drugs....[/quote']you forgot water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragudave Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Yes I'm biased' date=' cos all around me in Aberdeen I see the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, and I don't think some fucking eyesore which is in no way the "world-class venue.....competing with the likes of Vancouver and Sydney" they claim it to be, going to make any real impact on this sad sorry place called Aberdeen...try telling the homeless that the economy is booming and ask them what it means to them....prepare to duck...[/quote']Rich vs poor in Aberdeen - compare the unemployment rates in different areas of the city in the link below. For example, Auchmill, Woodside and Tillydrone and Tullos all have unemployment rates in excess of 5 % while Queens Cross, Danestone and Cults have rates of less than 1 %. http://www.neser.org.uk/datasheet.cfm?datasheetid=44AECC - crap gig venue. Its just a cow shed on the edge of the city. Conference wise its okay, but has loads of competition from every hotel in the city and beyond...DaveProgression to Higher Education also varies dramatically between schools. Around 90 % of pupils at Robert Gordons College enter higher education compared to 60 % at Aberdeen Grammar and only around 8 % at Northfield Academy.http://www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/bulletins/00221-05.asphttp://www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/bulletins/00221-37.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeornothing Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 What are those figures based on? When I was unemployed there was no way anyone could have known I was... ?( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragudave Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 What are those figures based on? When I was unemployed there was no way anyone could have known I was... ?(They are based on claimant counts. So if you didn't claim for benefits or register as unempl'd you would be not counted in these figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I think you will find that the benefits of the oil exhibitions being hosted at the AECC fall to the local business communities rather than the oil companies on a profit basis. The oil companies require advertising and networking from the exhibitions so really it doesn't matter to them whether they host stalls in Aberdeen, Norway or whatever. If you see the layout plan for the exhibition next month, the place is chocka with stalls, there is no way the amount of stalls could be accomodated by a hotel in Aberdeen. Local bosses in Aberdeen probably like it being here to avoid paying employees travelling expenses, but that's another story!Try booking a hotel or meal in Aberdeen around the time of the exhibitions, go out to the bars and see how busy it is.Saying oil killed Aberdeen is a tad naive. If oil LEAVES Aberdeen it will kill it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluesxman Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 OK Lester got there first, could have saved a lot of typing, he, he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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