Man Shot Down Was Innocent.

[Stripey]

ok I can't believe thie BULLSHIT in this thread. There is no fucking justification for what the police did, none atall. The suicide bombers are a direct result of our troops presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, and our support of the americans. The solution is NOT to give the police powers to arrest people indefinately without charge, to have secret trials, to have more wideranging surveillance powers, to SHOOT people who just "look dodgy", ID cards, tighter border controls, etc etc etc. NONE OF THAT IS THE SOLUTION, don't you see where all this is heading? Britain is going to become a totalitarian state, and this process has already started.

Why should we lose our freedoms just because the fuckwits in power here want to join in on america's global domination? Maybe more people would see that if they weren't so hooked on the childish narrative being peddled by the media and the government.

[Spoonie]

well thanks for that delightful insight. you've told us why we're in this situation and how NOT to solve it so once all wannabe suicide bombers have read your post, we can all sit back and relax, knowing that our problems dealt with.

you don't even make an attempt at providing an alternative to the way in which our police and security operations are dealing, except to fly back in time and not get involved with the US.

and you have the cheek to claim that everything else in the thread is bullshit!

/x

[Stripey]

well thanks for that delightful insight. you've told us why we're in this situation and how NOT to solve it so once all wannabe suicide bombers have read your post' date=' we can all sit back and relax, knowing that our problems dealt with.

you don't even make an attempt at providing an alternative to the way in which our police and security operations are dealing, except to fly back in time and not get involved with the US.

and you have the cheek to claim that everything else in the thread is bullshit!

/x[/quote']

The solution is the get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, whereby the terrorists no longer have a motivation for attacking us.

[Flash@TMB]

Are the police in Brazil armed. I'm guessing so. Therefore it's quite likely that the guy didn't fully appreciate the seriousness of the situation. My guess is that they'd still have shot him dead though even if he'd put his hands up. I suspect they were under oreders to kill him in case he detonated the explosives. They would probably have thought that the surrender was a trap.

[soundian]

Are the police in Brazil armed. I'm guessing so. Therefore it's quite likely that the guy didn't fully appreciate the seriousness of the situation. My guess is that they'd still have shot him dead though even if he'd put his hands up. I suspect they were under oreders to kill him in case he detonated the explosives. They would probably have thought that the surrender was a trap.

My guess though, is that they would've handled the situation the same way as they did when they arrested an innocent man in Whitehall on Thursday, keep him covered, keep his hands away from his body and clear the area of civilians before approaching him.

If he's lived in London for three years, and more importantly the last two and a half weeks, I'm sure he would've been very aware of the seriousness of the situation.

[Jim Stax]

The solution is the get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan' date=' whereby the terrorists no longer have a motivation for attacking us.[/quote']

If only! The current climate has increased in severity as a result of Iraq, but it goes back way further than that and removing the troops will make little difference now... And no I'm not suggestng we should just leave them there! Fuck knows what the answer is and its a damn shame that someone like Bush or Blair get to make decisions in our name!

[Alkaline]

I am confused by the whole thing. There is clearly a lot more behind this than is being let on.

I feel sorry for everyone involved in the whole thing, most notably the guy shot, his family and the police man(or MI5/SAS) who actually shot him.

However:

1. Regardless of the guy being scared etc the police would have reason to shoot him in that situation if he ran. Might have been slightly different if 50 odd people hadn't died the week before. But its the old judgement call- 50 more dead or 1 guy who ran when he shouldn't've (better safe than sorry?)

2. The guys family have not kept tabs on him 24/7 for the past 3 odd years, how on earth would they be able to catagorically state he wasn't a terrorist?

3. The policeman in question was just doing his job.

[Flash@TMB]

Well I'm with this guy - the most sensible thing I have read all week:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1070-1707225,00.html

[Flash@TMB]

Let's just imagine for one moment the shoe was on the other foot and this was a British student living in Brazil, and there had been some terrorism there, and the Rio police had shot the British student in similar circumstances. In other words the guy leaves his student digs to work at his part-time job in a bar, and as he's entering the underground a group of guys, dressed in jeans and t-shirts, run up pointing guns and screaming something in Spanish or Portugeuse, so the guy shit himself and runs away, but they catch him, force him onto his back, sit on top of him, pin his arms and legs down, then force a 9mm pistol into his mouth and pull the trigger FIVE times.

Resembles like something from a nightmare.

Somehow I expect we'd be a little upset about it back home.

Then the ex heasd of the Brazilian police force writes in his weekly newspaper column that "his heart goes out to the office involved".

Hmmm...

***

In relation to this guy running, it should be noted that the police back home in Sao Paulo shot and killed 290 innocent civilians last year. Most of them were shot in the back. So my guess is that his instincts took over. In 1995 the figure was 5x higher!

***

Also originally we were told by a police source that the guy was "an unusually dark skinned Brazilian". And that "he strongly resembled someone of middle eastern origin". Anyone seen today's papers? He had light skin and his hair was specified as dark blonde.

He didn't even have a fuckin tache!

So are we still to believe he was wearing a bulky jacket?

[Guest tv tanned]

Well I'm with this guy - the most sensible thing I have read all week:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0' date=',1070-1707225,00.html[/url']

sage words

[soundian]

Let's just imagine for one moment the shoe was on the other foot and this was a British student living in Brazil' date=' and there had been some terrorism there, and the Rio police had shot the British student in similar circumstances. In other words the guy leaves his student digs to work at his part-time job in a bar, and as he's entering the underground a group of guys, dressed in jeans and t-shirts, run up pointing guns and screaming something in Spanish or Portugeuse, so the guy shit himself and runs away, but they catch him, force him onto his back, sit on top of him, pin his arms and legs down, then force a 9mm pistol into his mouth and pull the trigger FIVE times.

Resembles like something from a nightmare.

Somehow I expect we'd be a little upset about it back home.

Then the ex heasd of the Brazilian police force writes in his weekly newspaper column that "his heart goes out to the office involved".

Hmmm...

***

In relation to this guy running, it should be noted that the police back home in Sao Paulo shot and killed 290 innocent civilians last year. Most of them were shot in the back. So my guess is that his instincts took over. In 1995 the figure was 5x higher!

***

Also originally we were told by a police source that the guy was "an unusually dark skinned Brazilian". And that "he strongly resembled someone of middle eastern origin". Anyone seen today's papers? He had light skin and his hair was specified as dark blonde.

He didn't even have a fuckin tache!

So are we still to believe he was wearing a bulky jacket?[/quote']

Where does it say they took the time to turn him over, pin his arms and legs and shoot him in the mouth. all the reports I've read say he was shot in the base of the skull, implying he was lying on his front, where he fell/tripped/was pushed.

Moustaches can be shaved, suicide bombers in Israel sometimes dye their hair blond so that proves absolutely nothing.

[soundian]

"Mr Pereira said that his cousin had witnessed running battles between police and drug gangs and, for that reason, would not have run away from British police. There are rules in Brazil. Police shoot you if you run away from them there. He would have known that and I dont believe he would have run away from (the British) police, he said."

So, his Sao Paolo days would have made him less likely to run, if he knew it was police.

From here if anyone wants to know.

[Flash@TMB]

Where does it say they took the time to turn him over' date=' pin his arms and legs and shoot him in the mouth. all the reports I've read say he was shot in the base of the skull, implying he was lying on his front, where he fell/tripped/was pushed.[/quote']

The Times and the Independent both reported today that he was shot in the mouth. I assumed they would have said 'in the back of the neck' or 'base of the skull' had that been the case.

Perhaps they had the decency to pin him face down and hyper extend his neck to one side?

Does it make any difference, I'm not sure the poor bastard would have had a preference.

If we return to the Brit in Brazil scenario does it make it OK if they pin him face down and shoot him in the base of the skull?

Moustaches can be shaved' date=' suicide bombers in Israel sometimes dye their hair blond so that proves absolutely nothing.[/quote']

I guess ginger people are safe though, nobody in their right mind would dye their hair ginger and paint on orange freckles... but I guess there would be less of an outcry if the police stuck to shooting gingers on sight.

[soundian]

The Times and the Independent both reported today that he was shot in the mouth. I assumed they would have said 'in the back of the neck' or 'base of the skull' had that been the case.

Perhaps they had the decency to pin him face down and hyper extend his neck to one side?

Does it make any difference' date=' I'm not sure the poor bastard would have had a preference.

If we return to the Brit in Brazil scenario does it make it OK if they pin him face down and shoot him in the base of the skull?[/quote']

" Less than a minute later Mr Menezes was pinned to the floor of the carriage by two men while a third officer fired five shots into the base of his skull." that's from the Times

[Flash@TMB]

" Less than a minute later Mr Menezes was pinned to the floor of the carriage by two men while a third officer fired five shots into the base of his skull." that's from the Times

Oh that makes it OK then. I'll shut up now.

[soundian]

Oh that makes it OK then. I'll shut up now.

Sarcasm is perhaps best left for other less serious threads.

[garbage_star]

ok I can't believe thie BULLSHIT in this thread. There is no fucking justification for what the police did' date=' none atall. The suicide bombers are a direct result of our troops presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, and our support of the americans. The solution is NOT to give the police powers to arrest people indefinately without charge, to have secret trials, to have more wideranging surveillance powers, to SHOOT people who just "look dodgy", ID cards, tighter border controls, etc etc etc. NONE OF THAT IS THE SOLUTION, don't you see where all this is heading? Britain is going to become a totalitarian state, and this process has already started.

Why should we lose our freedoms just because the fuckwits in power here want to join in on america's global domination? Maybe more people would see that if they weren't so hooked on the childish narrative being peddled by the media and the government.[/quote']

Here Here.

There is no excuse for shooting this man, it makes me utterly sick.

[framheim]

the guardian are reporting that he was actually shot 8 times. 7 in the head and 1 in the shoulder. sheesh.

[soundian]

They're also now saying his visa was fine.

Sorry, they're still not sure but they think his visa was fine.

[framheim]

yea seems to be a lot of confusion about his visa. inquest opens today, should be interesting.

[soundian]

yea seems to be a lot of confusion about his visa. inquest opens today' date=' should be interesting.[/quote']

I thought the 8 shots info came from an inquest,I must pay more attention.

[medichi]

[framheim]

is that photoshopped?

yea the 8 shots thing was from an inquest, i didn't realise it had opened yesterday and not today. must wake up before reading the news.

[lepeep]

of course it is dave...

"dear public, here is a racist statement, opening us wide to public writs of proportions never seen before, you ...(fill in the blanks)"

[framheim]

heh, never underestimate the stupidity of people. be it for writing such things on a board or me having to check if it was photoshopped. if it is photoshopped it's quite good. good angle on the writing and making it as out of focus as the rest of the pic.