The General Election

[Guest tv tanned]

Glad you boys have all the answers.

you are all talking about the "future"' date=' and yet, when I say something about "who'll want out of the EU in 20 years time" it's an " irrelevant question really".

I still can't see how little scotland who have ANY CLOUT in the EU.

I understand that the EU is supposed to be a collective, with "certain laws" developed by brussels, and with individual countries still having their own ways of working...but how long would that last?, over time, would certain laws be dictated to by the EU ?

and, as mr tanned seems to skip all the points he doesn't like, picking up on my last point, I think he missed the "one of" ("is one of the causes of woe and hatred ")...so yes, I do assume that Religion, personal possesions etc are also a cause of people wanting to fight each other...

I've said this before, I think humans are the worst animal on the planet. (but that's leaving the main point).

I can't see how an independant scotland would be any better off than it is just now.

alienation, isolation and insularity are not forward thinking.

why think that the "bigger beast" would be any better than "being stuck with england".

if we can't even negotioate the things we need with our own government, imagine joining a queue with 25 or so other people asking for their plight to be heard?....what chance would we have ?

Bob, option D, good luck then. (we can always sell them shortbread, whisky and tartan, eh. ho ho.)

just joking.

Quote away.[/quote']

Tell you what, you just carry on chuckling while our industries are done down because they don't fit the 'wider picture of British interests', while 25% of our children live in poverty and while nations like Norway invest part of their oil revenues in a Windfall Fund which now earns more in interest than the annual oil revenues in total, whereas Westminster uses the Scottish oil billions to fund nuclear weapons and illegal wars.

ho ho

maybe it's all a joke to you, but I'm not laughing.

[Cloud]

I can't see how an independant scotland would be any better off than it is just now.

alienation' date=' isolation and insularity are not forward thinking.[/quote']

Compare and constrast Ireland to Northern Ireland.

One is stuck with a 1970's infrastructure, with Westminister having done very little for it.

One is spending billions of Euro on upgrading their infrastructure, with massive EU funded projects throughout the country.

One is independent within the EU, the other is merely a region of a EU member.

The GDP per capita of Ireland is slightly over 40,000 dollars.

The GDP per capita of the UK as a whole is just over 30,000 dollars - and I'm fairly sure that Northern Ireland has a fairly lower GDP per capita than Britain.

Scotland wanted to become a high tech economy, see Silicon Glen for example. Why has it failed? Simple - we were dictated to by the needs of England, not the needs of this country. We didn't have the freedom to offer the startups the relief they needed to begin with, we didn't have the ability to compete with Ireland for the big American companies - why? Because economic policies are set for the best of the UK, not for the best of Scotland.

alienation, isolation and insularity are not forward thinking.

To quote a more modern day example - is Malta better off inside or outside the UK? Serious consideration was given to Malta becoming a part of the UK formally (as opposed to being a dependency like the Isle of Man/Jersey/etc), but they voted for independence. Are they better off on their own as part of the EU, or are better off being dictated to by London?

Personally, I think that Scotland's needs would be best served by joining with Ireland in a loose confederation - similar to Serbia and Montenegro.

[Cloud]

One question.

What country hasn't been, in the long run, better off independent than as part of another country?

Off the top of my head -

Iceland, Norway, Ireland, Malta, Finland, Lithuania, Czech Republic/Slovakia, Estonia, Slovenia, Latvia..they've all prospered since independence, why shouldn't we share the wealth?

[Hog]

I am not going to vote SNP because Alex Salmond is old

[kirkt]

I vote Green...for people, for peace, for planet.

[Cloud]

I vote Green...for people' date=' for peace, for planeteers.[/quote']

hehe

Actually, to be fair, the Scottish Greens aren't that bad a party - I like Robin Harper.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a SNP/SSP/Green rainbow coalition at some point in the future..

[Pierre Von Mondragon]

Aye we'll all fuckin know about it on friday morning if we get up and fascisto Howard is in No10. Make sure it never happens. At least our parly would shield us a bit, in fact I reckon the SNP would secretly prefer the Tories to win tomorrow, as it would lead to much friction between Westminster & Holyrood, friction that could be used. Now while that may be good political entertainment, I don't think it would be good for the country.

[Cloud]

Aye we'll all fuckin know about it on friday morning if we get up and fascisto Howard is in No10. Make sure it never happens. At least our parly would shield us a bit' date=' in fact I reckon the SNP would secretly prefer the Tories to win tomorrow, as it would lead to much friction between Westminster & Holyrood, friction that could be used. Now while that may be good political entertainment, I don't think it would be good for the country.[/quote']

It would probably be better for us actually - with a Tory UK goverment, Labour and the Lib Dems would likely do what was best for Scotland as opposed to following Tony's line in London.

It's an interesting point though, I suspect Holyrood would set a lot more differing legislation if there was a different administration there than at Westminister.

I just had a terrifying thought - Lib Dem/Tory coalition at Westminister, anyone? :|

[Guest tv tanned]

Aye we'll all fuckin know about it on friday morning if we get up and fascisto Howard is in No10. Make sure it never happens. At least our parly would shield us a bit' date=' in fact I reckon the SNP would secretly prefer the Tories to win tomorrow, as it would lead to much friction between Westminster & Holyrood, friction that could be used. Now while that may be good political entertainment, I don't think it would be good for the country.[/quote']

Yes, cos there's nothing I want more than Michael Howard getting in and fucking Scotland over.

I mean for fuck's sake...

[Guest Bob]

I still can't see how little scotland who have ANY CLOUT in the EU.

I think that sums up your mentality beautifully.

"Hi, we're fae Scotland - it's only a wee country, dinnae mind us!"

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

why think that the "bigger beast" would be any better than "being stuck with england".

if we can't even negotioate the things we need with our own government' date=' imagine joining a queue with 25 or so other people asking for their plight to be heard?....what chance would we have ?[/quote']

I think you're missing the point though. Yes we'd be joining a queue, but at least WE would be joining that queue. At the moment we are subject to two lines of comprimise - Westminster government decides if what we ask is in the best interests of middle England, and then tries to argue for it in Brussells. You're always going to have more say in a matter if you argue with the main man as opposed to the middle man.

I used to be a staunch SNP supporter until John Swinney said we would sign up for everything the EU had going if we got independence. That made me a bit wary.

HOWEVER, I then realised that my dream of Scotland being completely independent of everyone was perhaps a bit far-fetched, and that the SNP's European plans were actually very reasonable, and definitely better than those offered by any other party. So now I'm back to being an even bigger SNP supporter.

Scotland is currently nothing more than a glorified county of England. We deserve to be more than that.

[lepeep]

maybe it's all a joke to you' date=' but I'm not laughing.[/quote']

Good to see the SNP have a sense of humour.

and what is the total percentile of scotland that votes SNP ?

it's just my perception that the majority of scots don't want independance, as they don't seem to be convinced that the argument for independance is strong enough.

the Only Good thing I can see from Independance is, we wouldn't have gone to war in Iraq.

[lepeep]

I think that sums up your mentality beautifully.

"Hi' date=' we're fae Scotland - it's only a wee country, dinnae mind us!"[/quote']

with a population of how many hundreds ?...

fuck me, we don't even have a football team that can beat Estonia...

(oh, watch it phil...entering into Joke territory there, can't have that in a serious discussion about the future of scotland).

[lepeep]

I think you're missing the point though. Yes we'd be joining a queue' date=' but at least WE would be joining that queue. At the moment we are subject to two lines of comprimise - Westminster government decides if what we ask is in the best interests of middle England, and then tries to argue for it in Brussells. You're always going to have more say in a matter if you argue with the main man as opposed to the middle man.

I used to be a staunch SNP supporter until John Swinney said we would sign up for everything the EU had going if we got independence. That made me a bit wary.

HOWEVER, I then realised that my dream of Scotland being completely independent of everyone was perhaps a bit far-fetched, and that the SNP's European plans were actually very reasonable, and definitely better than those offered by any other party. So now I'm back to being an even bigger SNP supporter.

Scotland is currently nothing more than a glorified county of England. We deserve to be more than that.[/quote']

I quite obviously don't know enough to comment on anything about independance, scotland and the EU.

so, get your fucking party to tell us all the answers.

I think that was my original point.

as for "fighting in the EU"...

wasn't the fisharies minister a fucking Scot ? (Ross Finnie)

oh, that's right, he was probably a campbell, sent by the FEBs to destroy and humiliate us....

PS, will we ask to be a special case, when the oil runs out ?

all just questions, all just things to think about...

don't shit on my head for asking these questions (Sorry rob, if they are stupid queations in your eyes).

[Aceness]

he was probably a campbell, sent by the FEBs to destroy and humiliate us....

Campbells are ace, nothing can touch their greatness

[Guest Bob]

and what is the total percentile of scotland that votes SNP?

In 1999 the SNP polled 28.7% percent of the vote for the new Scottish parliament. At the last Scottish parliamentary elections the figure was more like 20%. I expect that figure will be higher at the next Scottish election' date=' but I don't know what it will be like on Thursday.

it's just my perception that the majority of scots don't want independance, as they don't seem to be convinced that the argument for independance is strong enough.

I think it is strong enough, but I also believe that Scots need to discover a renewed faith and belief in themselves. When it boils down to it, I trust the Scots to run Scotland best (even those Scots I disagree with) whereas you argue we're not good/competent/big enough.

with a population of how many hundreds ?...

fuck me' date=' we don't even have a football team that can beat Estonia...[/quote']

Well when we get a football team that can beat Brazil maybe you'll change your mind on the whole issue...

I quite obviously don't know enough to comment on anything about independance' date=' scotland and the EU.

so, get your fucking party to tell us all the answers.

I think that was my original point.[/quote']

If you're interested you go and find out these things for yourself. None of the information I'm delivering to you is made up by me, it's my recollections of political debates I've seen on television. If you want answers to your questions you have to look for them... I'm sure this so called Internet thingy might be of use.

[Guest AmbientMood]

so don't give me the line it was all about pre-emptive strikes for the "greater good" and defence of the realm...it's all about cash

So you would prefer one of the most dangerous men in the world was sitting on that much wealth?

[Guest AmbientMood]

Scotland is currently nothing more than a glorified county of England. We deserve to be more than that.

One excellent reason not to vote SNP:

With Independence' date=' the SNP will pursue a non-nuclear defence policy.[/quote']

Pea-shooters for everyone!

[Hog]

Someone gave me a negative scene point and called me a "gimp". Mmmm must be the avatar lol

[lepeep]

So you would prefer one of the most dangerous men in the world was sitting on that much wealth?

wowee, that's the best misunderstanding of a point I've ever seen...

or, "the best use of an out of context quote".

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

Someone gave me a negative scene point and called me a "gimp". Mmmm must be the avatar lol

Or the signature.

[spellchecker]

well, i just put a bet on for the conservatives to win. so if the worst comes to the worst, at least i'll have enough money to get totally wasted. and on the flip side, paying three quid for the conservatives to lose seems a great deal to me.

[lepeep]

how much do you stand to lose (hopefully, sorry)

[Hog]

I still cant decide who to vote for, Lib Dem or SSP.

[spellchecker]

how much do you stand to lose (hopefully' date=' sorry)[/quote']

i put on a 3 quid bet at odds of 12-1, so i get 36 quid if they win. small consolation.