Guest Gladstone Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Muse are better now than when they were started. They sounded like a Radiohead tribute band initialy.Here's a litte example of the ridiculous "sell-out" debate that I saw fairly recently.Ewan of Headlight fame (Stichman on here) posted something about how shite Snow Patrol are since they sold out, he was a fan of their earlier albums etc. but they now just write songs aimed at stadium tours with big singalong choruses etc etc. I can't vouch for how much truth is in that because I am completely unaware of Snow Patrol before the Final Straw album, but the thinking behind it doesn't sit well with me because Snow Patrol can do whatever the fuck Snow Patrol like in my opinion.Same Ewan of Headlight fame just recently posted on his Facebook that he was getting tired of Muse and their "spaceship" related songs and that it is probably time for a change of direction.So, basically, a change of direction that Ewan likes is fine, but a change of direction that he doesn't like is akin to sucking the devil's penis.Another ridiculous example I saw of this was fans of Razorlight. Fucking Razorlight!!? I can remember having a conversation with Steven Milne and a few of his mates who were accusing Razorlight's second album of being shite and that they've sold out since they got famous! Fucking hell - Razorlight were always a commercial indie band. Nothing more. I like Razorlight and probably do prefer their first album to their second, but fucking hell. They were a commercial pop/indie band right from the outset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 But that's obviusly nonsense as well, they didn't. They just happened to be a guitar band with a singer who if you were a bit deaf sounded a little bit like Thom Yorke.The first Muse album sounds nothing like Radiohead at all.Anyway I don't think Muse sold out either I just mentioned them as a band that's forgotten they have a back catalogue. But they always had grand intentions so if you're aim is to play stadiums, arenas and be the biggest band in the world you can't sell out.I chose to ignore that comment because I thought I was going a little bit mental but was thinking that Muse's first album was nothing like Radiohead. At all.Radiohead. There's a band that's changed directions a few times, but they've efffectively gone less commercial. Does that mean they were "selling out" in their earlier albums? Fuck no. They can bloody well please themselves...!EDIT: I have to admit to feeling a little bit sick when Manics appeared on Strictly. That was a strange one. A very strange one indeed. But, they got paid some money to play their new single on TV. Not really anything wrong with that is there? I just thought it was completely bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Radiohead didn't sell out, they just forgot that music was meant to have, you know, hooks and tunes and things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Radiohead didn't sell out, they just forgot that music was meant to have, you know, hooks and tunes and things.Says who exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Says who exactly?Simon Cowellxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Simon CowellxxHa - Simon Cowell knows fuck all about music - he knows how to milk money out of people and he is very very good at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Ah, Radiohead... I remember the days when listening to them was a joy rather than an accountancy exam filtered through a ZX Spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Ha - Simon Cowell knows fuck all about music - he knows how to milk money out of people and he is very very good at that.I absolutely agree, but that said it's implied in a couple of posts here that that's an acceptable goal..Personally, I believe music is art and should be treated as such, with respect and blah blah blah...fact is, people have paid money for the crazy frog. you may have forgotten all about that fad, but that's when the idealist in me died..If I could make a living writing advert jingles, god knows I would.This whole celebrity culture we live in is just about fame and money, it's pretty sad. I used to hate the people who buoght heat magazine, I just pity them now...xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Ah, Radiohead... I remember the days when listening to them was a joy rather than an accountancy exam filtered through a ZX Spectrum.Is describing Radiohead as 'joyus' not a little oxymoronic?Not particularly familiar with them but what I've heard is miserablism at it's finest.. Same idea as Coldplay?xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain burrito Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Have they changed the name of the track for the X-Factor single? My girlfriend certainly seemed abit miffed at this as she is of the thought that people will think it's an original and not a cover of her favourite band. Would this affect songwriting royalties in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Is describing Radiohead as 'joyus' not a little oxymoronic?Not particularly familiar with them but what I've heard is miserablism at it's finest.. Same idea as Coldplay?xxI should probably have made it a little clearer that I'm not being entirely serious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 I absolutely agree, but that said it's implied in a couple of posts here that that's an acceptable goal..Personally, I believe music is art and should be treated as such, with respect and blah blah blah...fact is, people have paid money for the crazy frog. you may have forgotten all about that fad, but that's when the idealist in me died..If I could make a living writing advert jingles, god knows I would.This whole celebrity culture we live in is just about fame and money, it's pretty sad. I used to hate the people who buoght heat magazine, I just pity them now...xxThat is the point though - it's not Simon Cowell's fault that the UK (and further afield) is full of fucking idiots - he's just exploiting the fact. Does that make him all bad? I don't think so. There's worse things he could be doing, like exploiting under age girls in some sick underworld hooker ring, you know the sort of thing that really bad people do.Same with people who get all worked up by X Factor, read Heat magazine religiously as if any of that shit matters etc etc. It's their life their wasting with all that meaningless pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 I should probably have made it a little clearer that I'm not being entirely serious You? Being sarcastic?Unlike you...Fuck, don't I feel like a dick...xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britheguy Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Couldn't agree more about the whole 'sellout' thing..ISo called punks who spend so much time arguing about what does and doesn't fit into their definition of 'punk', but at the same time trying to hold on to the ideals that what they stand for is being anti-elitism and anti-establishment...The irony staggers me...xxI have to agree with your comment. Just last week I was talking about this subject. Punk seemed to be about picking up an instrument and making a racket. How good you could play was not really an issue. Geez! if you listen to live sex pistols music a lot of it was poor quailty playing at best. Yet if a band were to play the same music better these days they still get slagged off. It's a load of bullshit really. It seems that a lot of punk fans (70's) have grown up to the point where they want to make a rant about how good punk was, yet moan about how it's played these days by cover/tribute bands etc. Live cover/tribute bands today, play the punk song better than the "old" punks could play it live in their day.On another point. I remember punks going round with "All property is theft" badges. All very well and good when you're young and broke. Yet I know for a fact that several of those I knew have now got property. People grow up and with that brings families/responsibilities (sometimes) and that's fact. I love old punk music. I like to play it and listen to it yet I've got a house....oh no, I've sold out to the punk values.To be honest I thinkn that punks must be amongst the biggest music moaners I know. They all think they know the coolest bands, and if your new band does not fit into their , ideal...then...well you must be shite.Rant over and awaiting a slagging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroopy121 Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 That is the point though - it's not Simon Cowell's fault that the UK (and further afield) is full of fucking idiots - he's just exploiting the fact. Does that make him all bad? I don't think so. There's worse things he could be doing, like exploiting under age girls in some sick underworld hooker ring, you know the sort of thing that really bad people do.Same with people who get all worked up by X Factor, read Heat magazine religiously as if any of that shit matters etc etc. It's their life their wasting with all that meaningless pish.Very true. Still, gotta hate someone.. otherwise there would be absolutely no point in the internet.xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gladstone Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Have they changed the name of the track for the X-Factor single? My girlfriend certainly seemed abit miffed at this as she is of the thought that people will think it's an original and not a cover of her favourite band. Would this affect songwriting royalties in any way?Yes - the single is being called "When We Collide" I think. It won't make any difference to royalties though surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsby Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 To be honest I don't know any of this for fact but I understood that whoever cvontrols the publishing has to license cover versions, whether or not that is true I don't know. But surely changing the title would need permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 To be honest I don't know any of this for fact but I understood that whoever cvontrols the publishing has to license cover versions, whether or not that is true I don't know. But surely changing the title would need permission.According to the PRS you only need permission if you change the arrangement, melody or lyrics. Which I don't think they've done. The title would be fair game and no permission is needed to record and release it.Writer members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Unless Biffy pledged their allegiance to be some sort of elite DIY band until death, then they can't really be considered sell outs, as they never really bought in. Maybe as a 16 year old brimming with angst, I would have thought differently, but I don't really care now. I'd jump at similar opportunities too, as would most people. Hell, I'd rather be writing songs for any guff disposable pop act than working in an office, that's for true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 According to the PRS you only need permission if you change the arrangement, melody or lyrics. Which I don't think they've done. The title would be fair game and no permission is needed to record and release it.Writer membersDoes a key change at the end count as changing the arrangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsinho Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Definitely not. It's a crime against music that the original doesn't contain a key change, the X Factor lot are doing Biffy a favour by slinging one in.Smart move on the part of the producers to give the winner a song with a bit of indie cred. Should stave off some of the sense of rebellion that made itself known last year with all the RATM nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsby Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 Definitely not. It's a crime against music that the original doesn't contain a key change, the X Factor lot are doing Biffy a favour by slinging one in.Smart move on the part of the producers to give the winner a song with a bit of indie cred. Should stave off some of the sense of rebellion that made itself known last year with all the RATM nonsense.Except at no point did anyone on the show mention that it was a Biffy cover, just that it was a "contemporary pop song". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsinho Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 The people who are likely to do the most 'fuck the x factor don't let them have the christmas number one' shouting will know what the song is without it being explicitly stated and while it won't stop it from happening at all, I'd be surprised if the uproar was anywhere near what it got to last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Android Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 It amazes me how angry people get over the X-factor. I've read some pretty stupid things about BiffyGate last night. (Not on here). Good songs are sung on X-Factor all the time, I don't see why anyone should think differently of the original just because it's been covered by a bland pop wannabe. I'm sure they did a whole show of Beatles songs once, it didn't make me throw Revolver out of the window. As for Muse, their first two albums are so much better than what has followed. I can't listen to them now. The early day Radiohead comparisons were always lazy and off the mark.And the Radiohead and Coldplay comparison Ok there is some logic to it, Colday have about 50 songs trying to be Fake Plastic Trees, but still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Jerk Posted December 13, 2010 Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 I don't know who did this, but they've clearly got a skillset. Not in phtoshopping though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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