British pubs enforce smoking ban

[GraemeC]

I repeat..."I must end this...its too distressing."

[soundian]

. If you don't think that passive smoke affects children then think again' date=' asthma, emphysema and bronchitis are just a few respiratory problems that develop as a direct consequence of smoke, even passive smoke.

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Why are the number of children with asthma rising while the number of people smoking is falling?

Doesn't seem like a particularly "direct consequence" to me.

[Guest tv tanned]

and I suppose you're a doctor/medical student who has studied respiratory diseases and their causes and effects in detail?

She never mentioned it as a singular cause.

[soundian]

and I suppose you're a doctor/medical student who has studied respiratory diseases and their causes and effects in detail?

She never mentioned it as a singular cause.

I was pointing out that the phrase "direct consequence" was perhaps a bit extreme considering the medical profession is a bit sketchy on the whole thing themselves.

Would "trigger" be a better word than "cause"?

Ask a doctor.

[Guest tv tanned]

well she's a medic, so I assumed she might know her stuff...

[soundian]

well she's a medic' date=' so I assumed she might know her stuff...[/quote']

She might well do, last I heard they were still very confused about asthma though.

There's statistics to say that's asthma is more likely in children who's parents smoke but that doesn't show a direct link. Their may be other factors at work which are common to a lot of smokers and not to non smokers. Do genetics affect who smokes and who doesn't, who has asthma and who doesn't?

Once these questions are answered then the phrase "direct consequence" could be substituted for "statistically more probable".

[Rachie]

Fine, statistically more probable, although given that that's the latest findings in the BMJ I'm still going with that asthma can and does develop as a direct consequence of smoking and passive smoking in many cases. Yes some kids are just unlucky enough to develop it anyway, but I hardly think that smoking around an infant is going to be anything but detrimental to its health and development. And studies do prove that. Would you be happy to keep a baby in a smoke-filled room?

[rach]

Rachel is right.

Children who are exposed to smoke are more likely to develop asthma. However, Iain is right with respect to the fact people just don't know what causes asthma. There are many theories currently in circulation. The most popular theory (basically) is that children who are not exposed to "dirt" will develop "the wrong" immune response and it will be over reactive to certain allergens. But people just don't know!

Passive smoking is linked to many other problems that haven't been mentioned.

A baby in the womb who is exposed to smoke (whether mum is smoking or those around her) is more likely to be *premature, this in its self is linked to many problems.

*Mum may miscarry,

*the baby is more likely to die from cot death,

*the baby is likely to be small and

*may have growth or behavioural problems.

There is also * an increased risk of the child developing asthma or various upper respiratory problems.

*More likely to have bronchitis or pneumonia.

* Will have hearing problems and ear infections.

* will find colds harder to fget over.

* More likely to have meningitis

*Childhood cancers such as leukaemia

When the child is older he/she may be more likely to suffer from:

* heart problems and stroke

*cervical cancer

*Cataracts

*Lung cancer

Uhmm.....I apologise if thats rather difficult to read - I was working all night and am very very tired.

[soundian]

Fine' date=' statistically more probable, although given that that's the latest findings in the BMJ I'm still going with that asthma [b']can and does develop as a direct consequence of smoking and passive smoking in many cases. Yes some kids are just unlucky enough to develop it anyway, but I hardly think that smoking around an infant is going to be anything but detrimental to its health and development. And studies do prove that. Would you be happy to keep a baby in a smoke-filled room?

As I said, there is evidence to correlate smoking with asthma (although that doesn't account for the ever increasing rates of asthma) but that doesn't show it as a direct cause and effect relationship.

You can't just say smokers children have a higher incidence of asthma therefore smoking is what causes it, there may be other effects (e.g. genetics/social and environmental background etc) which haven't been investigated properly yet.

But, to answer your more emotive point: No, I wouldn't be happy to keep a baby in a smoke filled room because statistically speaking it MAY harm the baby and I don't see smoking as something that can't wait until the baby isn't in the room anymore.

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

Precisely my point.

Jake I can see why you think it's none of my business' date=' but when you post it on an internet message board do you really expect people not to react to something like that or comment on it?

I never said I was whiter than white, pssh far from it. I just feel that it's wrong, and yes [b']abusive to smoke around a child at such an early stage of its development, when it can't communicate to you that the smoke bothers it. If you don't think that passive smoke affects children then think again, asthma, emphysema and bronchitis are just a few respiratory problems that develop as a direct consequence of smoke, even passive smoke.

I don't mean to get up on my "high horse" at you, and I'm aware I prolly am, it just happens to be a subject I feel very strongly about, having been subjected to a smoky atmosphere constantly until I was 10.

Aye, my apologies RP, I did go off on one a bit there, sorry. You're right, I can't expect it to go unquestioned and it's interesting to see people just assume things from given information while knowing I'm a bugger for it myself. Right, time for the truth here. My partner is due to move into a 3-bedroom flat. The spare bedroom will be used as a smoking room when it's all nice and ready and everything. She doesn't want to smoke around her child and it's her gaff so what she says will go. Going to a different room is a fine compromise, it's hardly going to be an ordeal.

P.S. I also think "direct consequence" is too strong, but I reckon there is a probability there.

Apologies once again.

*mops brow and vows to cut down caffeine intake*

[Guest Jake Wifebeater]

I have just re-read this response and I think im going to be sick.....

Correct me if im wrong but....your partner has chosen a room for smoking in this flat' date=' now if what you say about the baby is true the only reason for this would be to protect the other rooms from the damage caused by two people smoking heavily...because as we all know smoking very quickly coats everything in horrible yellow tar which stains paintwork and plastic and the soft furnishings will soon become permanently impregnated with the stench of fags.

So to sum up....the flat is worth saving from the damage of smoke.....[b']the baby is not

Wow....

Well, you were trying to wind me up so I thought I'd give you some payback. Read my above post for the real story.

[GraemeC]

Well' date=' you were trying to wind me up so I thought I'd give you some payback. Read my above post for the real story.[/quote']

Yes I get a little tetchy when backed into a corner also....

[HummerOfIntenseEvil]

Why are the number of children with asthma rising while the number of people smoking is falling?

Doesn't seem like a particularly "direct consequence" to me.

Two words: Central Heating.

That's always been my family's theory anyway, given that none of us have asthma, and we never got central heating until a few years ago. Meanwhile, my cousins all have asthma (I think so anyway) and they've lived with central heating from a young age, if not their whole lives.

After all, asthma is an allergic reaction to dust mites or something is it not? And you only have to look at the back of a radiator to see how much dust gets attracted to heat. So whether this means they somehow aren't developing the correct anti-bodies for dust mites is a question I would maybe be able to answer if I'd done biology. But I liked chemistry and physics too much and I've always been a bit squemish of things getting dissected until relatively recently.

My two pence worth in regards to smoking around children etc: my mum told my that, while she stopped smoking for my sister's pregnancy, she didn't for mine. I'm quite short, but my sister is shorter, and in fact most people in my family are distinctly average in height. I'm also an extremely healthy person, always have been (more so when I was younger in fact), so overall I would say there was no damage done when I was in the oven.

However, having spent the first ten years of my life coughing and spluttering until they decided to quit meant there is no way I'll ever let a fag anywhere near these lips. Although I could always have gone to another room of course.

In summary: breezes. And that's all the weather.

[Ch Black]

I come from a non smoking family and I have asthma, but there is a very strong genetic link as my dad has asthma and his dad died from it at a young age. Asthma can be when your immune thinks a 'normal' particle in the atmosphere is poisonous, so it reacts to it, this can be the same with smoke. My asthma has always been worse when I'm in a smokey atmosphere. Well it used to be, but then I started smoking and it's bad all the time. I think the smoking ban's a good thing, from a purely selfish point of view, I'm trying to stop smoking and it's a bastard being in a pub, having a pint and smelling that sweeeet smell of a newly lit fag.....

Why am I reading a thread about smoking when I'm desperate for a fag?? oh god I need a smoke. If anyone can come to Torry with a fag and lighter for me please do!!!

[Flash@TMB]

Two words: Central Heating

I don't smoke. I don't have central heating. I live in the sort of house that most peoples grandparents of great grandparents would live in.

Back in 2001 I used to go swimming every morning for an hour. I'd swim 64 lengths (approx 1 mile). Every 6th length I'd swim the full 25m underwater. After spending the weekend in the pub I found that on Monday I could only swim ~17-18m underwater. By Tuesday 21-22m, and it took until Wednesday each week before I could do the full 25m. If I engaged in any social smoking during the weekend - and I'm talking 1-2 fags total - then the situation could get worse with it taking until Friday till I could hold my breath for the full length.

In 2002 we bought the bar, and my lung capacity has further decreased. A serious neck injury prevented me from doing much in the way of exercise for the past 3 years. I just recently started again after my 35th birthday. I'll be back swimming in the next few weeks provided my neck can stand the breast stroke. Now I dodn't even socially smoke but spend much more time in the pub. Will be interesting to see how this affects my lungs.

Although the smoking ban will inevitably reduce our turnover, and probably wipe out what little profits we do make, I'm still in favour of it. Most of my friends started smoking when they started going to the pub. Banning it will most likely wipe out smoking within 3 generations.

[stroppycow]

If the Government want to ban smoking then they may as well make smoking illegal since it is so obviously a killer.

What's that? Oh - sorry - of course you wont. We smokers earn you too much in taxes, don't we.

I'm all for a some smoking / some no-smoking venue idea. I strenously object to being told I cannot continue to do something entirely legal which gives me enjoyment while out for a relaxing evening. I always prided myself on living in a country without a nanny state. No longer, it would seem.

Lets all go off and live in Belgium.

[AKMartin]

i gotta reasonable solution. ban all fags, cigars, smoking devices, Rizlas, and so on.

simple, no?

AKM

[The Milner]

you cant stop somebody smoking in their own home tho, that would be taking it a bit far, what people do in their own homes is their own business.

I dont really see this as a big problem and im a smoker. Yes its nice to have a fag with a drink but its not the end of the world if you cant do it. Anyway most people can last a night out without smoking if they really try its not that difficult, i can do it and ive been smoking for 6 years now.